Update on Willow

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irishsea

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Hi all, I was going to continue Willows health topic but she is on the mend so much I wanted to start a new one plus voice some concerns in order to put myself at ease.

First if some of you don't know what we have been going through the last 3-4 weeks with Willow please see here:
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=66114

Here is what we were greeted with this morning, sorry about the bad image quality but all we had was our phone.

View My Video


Sorry the cage hadn't been cleaned up, I am thinking that her and Faith threw a getting better party as there was everything everywhere! The tapping you hear is my partner tapping on her mush bowl. We were all excited this morning as she is really coming along so much and to hear her making these noises again.... was just amazing.

Now... for my confused part. I had posted Willow needs help thread on another thread and didn't get a response. Then I got a few yesterday including one I am going to qoute because it scares me and I am worried and thats not what Willow needs. What they said to upset me will be numbered and my questions follow.

1. Forgive me for sounding suspicious of this post but I am having difficulty with some of it. At six months most pigs are full grown and not "very small" as in a weanling. Did the vet possibly mean six weeks?

I know she is small, so is our Faith but she has near doubled in the last 3 weeks. We got them 8 weeks ago and they said she was 6 months old. The vets (all 4) say shes around 7-8 months now. Should I be worried because she is so small?

2. Baytril may help an infection, but if what you are seeing is the residual result of an inner ear infection it will do nothing. The head tilt is typically permanent and irreversible.

I thought I had read sometimes it can reverse itself? Willows head is much straighter? Or am I imagining it is?

3. I realize you want to do everything you can for this pig. But I am afraid I don't see the "quality of life" here. Blindness can be adjusted to. But if she's losing wt that's a sign she is not doing well. Tooth issues at that young age may mean there are a lot more health issues than just one or two.

She had to have her teeth trimed because she wasn't eating solid foods... thats not a tooth issue is it? She lost weight because of her trouble eating and has put some back on. Am I trying to make excuses?

and finally what scared me most:
4. The most obvious thing I see is that she is a roan and it's entirely possible she has the unfortunate issues that sometimes come with roans. If that's the case she may not have a 'normal' lifespan ahead of her.

She is what the vet called a torti, because she is mostly black and white with just a patch of brown on the left side of her mouth and a few brown hairs scatered. Is she really a roan? Should I be worried she will have nothing but health issues and suffering? It will not change me fighting for her or giving her the best life I can. But I need to prepare my heart if it will be a struggle. This person said I was also putting my needs above willows and making her have human emotions. I thought I was just not giving up on her, the three of us talked about it and said we would only give up when Willow did.

I am trying to focus on this little step forward in her health with her excitement. But this person really has me worried.
 
I think you are just doing everything you can for her! The people saying you are putting your needs before hers...well would would they have to say if you just gave up and had her pts? Going on that video i would say you are doing VERY wll with her. Good on you alot of people out there wouldn't bother!

My girlies weeked back to the video teehe
 
Now... for my confused part. I had posted Willow needs help thread on another thread and didn't get a response.

I was meaning I had posted on another forum, not a thread on antoher thread... awk lack of sleep is starting to get to me! lol

Thank you so much we are trying just this person really has scared me.
 
What a cheeky sod - it sounds to me as if you are doing all the right things for your beautiful Willow - I love the video of her btw! It set my Patchy off wheeking - he must have thought a girlfriend was coming to visit hee hee!
 
Wilow's looking and sounding GOOOOOOOODDDDD!x) I'm so happy for Willow! I'm no expert, but Willow's been off her food, so is naturally going to be smaller than Faith, there's a 260g difference between my two, the lightest one had dental problems and wasn't eating, but he's slowly gaining weight and that's the main thing!
Please, you've done, and are doing, everything right! You've given Willow a fighting chance, so please don't listen to those who tell you different! They'd be the first to criticise if you did nothing.
And remember, the second vets you went to were shocked about the first vets suggesting her being PTS, and that's because she has every opportunity to have a good quality of life with the right care! You're doing great, and so is Willow, so don't worry x>>
 
1. Forgive me for sounding suspicious of this post but I am having difficulty with some of it. At six months most pigs are full grown and not "very small" as in a weanling. Did the vet possibly mean six weeks?

I know she is small, so is our Faith but she has near doubled in the last 3 weeks. We got them 8 weeks ago and they said she was 6 months old. The vets (all 4) say shes around 7-8 months now. Should I be worried because she is so small?

Most pigs are a good size by 6 months - but certainly not fully grown. Each pig is different - according to their genetic make up. As long as she has a good covering and the muscle tone is good then that could well be normal for her. If she feels like skin and bone then obviously she is underweight. As long as her weight increases steadily she should be doing well.


2. Baytril may help an infection, but if what you are seeing is the residual result of an inner ear infection it will do nothing. The head tilt is typically permanent and irreversible.

I thought I had read sometimes it can reverse itself? Willows head is much straighter? Or am I imagining it is?

It's unlikely that her head tilt will improve greatly, once the infection is clear there will be residual damage that will leave her with a perm head tilt. A few pigs suffering from head tilt have popped up on the forum recently, maybe P@H's bulk breeder has had an infection spread through their breeding sheds.


3. I realize you want to do everything you can for this pig. But I am afraid I don't see the "quality of life" here. Blindness can be adjusted to. But if she's losing wt that's a sign she is not doing well. Tooth issues at that young age may mean there are a lot more health issues than just one or two.

She had to have her teeth trimed because she wasn't eating solid foods... thats not a tooth issue is it? She lost weight because of her trouble eating and has put some back on. Am I trying to make excuses?

It depends whether ther teeth needed trimming because she wasn't eating and they overgrew and the cause of her not eating can be overcome, or the teeth were the cause sand she has a dental problem and wasn't able to eat because of them. Agreed, blindness is of little consequence to a pig.

and finally what scared me most:
4. The most obvious thing I see is that she is a roan and it's entirely possible she has the unfortunate issues that sometimes come with roans. If that's the case she may not have a 'normal' lifespan ahead of her.

As far as I am aware - I'm no geneticist - being a roan is of no consequence what so ever. Breeding roan to roan has serious consquences for the offspring in that they have 25% chance of producing lethal gene combination (these offpring are pure white), but there is no health or life span implications for the roan guinea pig at all.

As for deciding on Willow's quality of life - you are the only one that can answer that as you see how she is doing from day to day.

HTH

Suzy x
 
I thought that Willow is looking so good - happy, lively and very much into things! She is coming along great; her head tilt is barely noticeable now. You have really done wonders for her!

Being off her food and ill for a considerable time of her growing age, it is no wonder that Willow is smaller; it is not crucial. With your good care, she will be able to catch up to a good extent - her growing is not over until she is a mature adult at 15 months old or even later, so she is not too old yet to gain plenty of weight for over half a year to come! She may always be a bit smaller than her sister, but that is not a problem.
I have two sisters; one is over 1400g and the other just over 1000g - but it is the smaller one who is running the whole show, so weight is not everything!
My Taffy was estimated to be about one year old and below 800g (and sheer skin and bones) when she was finished with having her last litter in rescue (of probably four back-to-back pregnancies by the sorry state of her). She is now a whopping 1350g and the second biggest piggy of my Tribe. She's also going blind with cataracts, but that hasn't slowed her down any.

I would strongly recommend staying away from that other forum. Willow is not a piggy that is at death's door and suffering. Roans in themselves are not a problem and Willow is defintiely not a lethal!

Keep going - you are doing fine!
 
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I cannot believe what I am reading! How ridiculous. Willow is clearly happy and getting better by the day, its so lovely to see and she is so loved by you all so much which is why she has even survived! Its a wonderful story of perseverence and people caring and going that extra mile.

Guineas know when they are loved and her quality of life is as much driven by her knowing you love her as it is with her physical state. I don't see a piggy thats suffering thats for sure!

In terms of growth and as someone else has said, they all grow at their own rates (like most animals including humans!) and I can echo this with mine. I have one which is still growing and she is 17 months now (although she is eating for England so its not surprising LOL!). They are all individuals and as someone said, YOU will know when her quality of life is no good any more, no one else can make that judgement.

Avoid that forum and stay here with us :))

Best Wishes x
 
That video is amazing, you must be so happy. Ignore the people on the other forum, it is obvious to me that you have been doing everything you can for her and it is working.
 
Thank you all, late morning and tonight has been tough getting Willow to eat. She is eating some on a plate but has deceided the syringe she has had enough of. She will take a little then get angry so you have to put it away and place her next to the plate of mush. She eats pretty well from it but not as much as the weekend.

She did eat some melon for me though, I think maybe now her teeth are too short because when giving her a pepper it seemed like she would bite down and then pull but she couldnt get through the skin of it. I did catch her with a thin piece of hay though. I think she wants to be eating like before but cant and is tired of mush.

We will always do what is in the best interest of Willow and Faith. That person just had me upset and worried I was overlooking things.

Thank you all and hopefully we will be back to floor playtime soon.
 
She looked terrific in the video! Keep up the good work, you're doing fine :)

p.s Willow is a great name! I have a Willow too! :))
 
Well done you clearly care very much about your pigs and are doing everything you can for them! great vid...

After reading the post that you said worried you, all I could think was, how many people abandon their animals or let them suffer because they don't want to take them for treatment or supposedly can't afford it but can afford to go out and get bladdered every night and so on?! - we read about SO many cases! Well, you can hold your head up and say you are NOT one of those so called 'people'! They disgust me to my core!

I would say that all posts on any forum site should be taken with a pinch of salt, it is after all, the opinions of the individual writing and as long as you know you are doing everything you can for your pig, you shouldn't worry. Of course, if you are unsure of something or feel you need support, we are all here for you... Thats what a place like this is for. I would just not dwell on negative comments or those that seem unfair to you, if you know you are doing what's right. I think what that person said was very unfair...

btw, I believe that anthropomorphising is not such a bad thing. The fact we see similar traits to our own in animals and identify with them, I feel, gives us a great connection to them. One of my boys "Coconut" tends to sneak up to me, kick me, lick me or put his paws up on me and then runs away... I turn away, he does it again. To me, I think he thinks it's funny - but how do I know? He can't tell me if that's the case... All I know is that it makes me want to interact with him and my other pigs more and more because I think he's a cheeky little ... and so are the rest of them! xx>>>

I think you have done a fantastic job, will keep it up and that Willow is very lucky to have you.
:)
 
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Oh love i'm so sorry that you've been upset this way :(
Both Suzy and Wiebke have posted lovely and informative information, i hope this has help and eased you a little xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>
Willow is such a little darling and your care and love have pulled her thru !
Keep up the great work, yes it could be that her toofies were cut too short ......grrrrr........grate or cut up Willow's food into strips so it's a little easier for her to munch on.

GOOD LUCK LITTLE WILLOW XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
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