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Urgent help - horrible decision to make :'(

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Jojoba

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As some of you may have read, my 1yr old pig Furio went for removal of a large bladder stone recently. The op went well - the stone was removed and another smaller one found at the same time, his bladder was flushed and he was returned home, though he was still in discomfort peeing he seemed otherwise happy.
Just 6 days later he started peeing blood again :(.
He was put onto Baytril and Metacam and after a week with no improvement moved onto Septrin. After a week with no improvement (in fact, he seemed to be in more pain :() I returned him to the vet who felt thickening of his bladder - when he felt it Furio began crying and then pee'd blood on the table :'(.
Today he went for an ultrasound and x-ray and shockingly has at least 4 - possibly 5 or 6 large (as in, ballbearing size or bigger) stones in his bladder, and one in his urethra. This is 3 weeks after the removal of the last one.

Needless to say the vet is incredibly disappointed and I am completely devestated.

Furio is in a lot of pain, really crying whenever he pees and passing blood every time. The vet has never seen a stone re-form so quickly, never mind so many so quickly :(.

I have the choice - I can put him through the surgery again (with no guarantees that this wont just happen again within a week) or have him PTS tomorrow.
To add to the pressure I am going on holiday for 2 weeks early Friday morning :(.
Sat here in floods of tears, I have no idea what to do :'(.


x
 
I'm so sorry to hear that his stones have come back 8... I really can't offer any advice but just wanted to let you know I'm thinking of you x
 
has he been on cystaid after the op?cant see why dogs cant go on it cats and guineas do..maybe give it 1 more try and ask for him to go on this after the op for life then if they come back again then have him PTS x
 
I dont know what to do, I'm flipping between thinking its time to let him go, and thinking I want to give him another chance. The bloody holiday (which Ive been so looking forward to) really doesnt help either 8...... I just dont know what to do for the best...


And if I have the surgery should I have it done whilst I'm away and leave my poor friend looking after a post-op pig? Or should I wait 2 weeks until I return, which means he has to be in pain 2 more weeks.

This is such a horrible decision.

x
 
Jojoba said:
I dont know what to do, I'm flipping between thinking its time to let him go, and thinking I want to give him another chance. The bloody holiday (which Ive been so looking forward to) really doesnt help either 8...... I just dont know what to do for the best...

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Maybe the vet would board him for you, well your away that way they can keep a close eye on his recovery!

2nd time could very much be the charm.

Only you know whats best for him!
 
Do stones sometimes not come back after the 2nd time? Even though he formed so many so fast?

The vet said there was about a 70% chance they would just reccur again :(.


Boarding sounds incredibly expensive, after the first op I'm already broke but I will pay again if I think it's the right thing to do. My friend trained as a vet so she's a good person to look after him, but she also has a job so cant be there all the time.

x
 
Hi am so sorry to hear about Furio's returning stones :(
PM furryfriends.........she's the admin person
her vet is wonderful and she maybe able to advise you of something else?
Other than that i know we have some very experienced people on here that may also be able to advise
I can only send you cyber loves and hugs and wish Furio all the best, thinking of you both xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>
 
What about doing the op again and then asking a local rescue center if they would board him? This maybe a cheaper option and then ask about cystease and change of diet.

If i were you then I would try and give him a second chance and maybe get in touch with the Cavy Cambridge Trust and ask about what to do after the op and how to try and prevent any more stones from forming. x x x x
 
Hi there
I know exapctly what you are going through my guinea pig Jack went through this ideal except his stones were stuck in between the tubes between the kidneys and the bladder the vets didnt want to opperate cos it was too dangerous. I put Jack on a stricked diet of low calcium and he had pain relief and patassium which the vets adviced and told me the messurements to give. Jack passed 8 of the stones by himself. And it all looked good but it wouldnt put on weight even though he was eatting normal plus I was seringe feeding him. He seemed to be getting his personality back and I felt we was doing well. Then one day he scratched his back with his back leg. And when he put his leg down his whole back end dropped. :(I told my partner there was something not right. But he thought I was being paranoid. I felt he had a wet nose in the morning and he looked very lathagic. I put him back on his pain relief. By 11am in the night he looked really bad. And he died.
Sorry this is not a happy ending but just wanted you to know. So may be it will help you decide. Everyone was telling get Jack to the vets. But I knew in my own heart it was the end. I didnt want to put him though stress. 8...
 
Awful decision to have to make. Definitely search for further info from the people suggested here. I really wouldn't leave it two weeks though, with him in pain whilst you go away. That could be one option you dis count, to help make the decision. Hope all goes well for this little chap. x
 
I'm sorry for some reason i thought you were talking about a dogmalletheadmalletheadmallethead

sorry

well i had a guinea pig with stones and he had them removed 6 wks ago now and he went straight onto cystease but the recovery was horrid and i nearly lost him ive always said if he gets them again i wouldnt put him through it again but he is 4yrs old over..

it is hard but you havent tried cystease and how was he after the op did he recover fast ?

dont let the holiday infuence things as once your back home you will never forgive yourself if you did put the holiday over the guinea pig,maybe ask the vets if they will board him while your away xx
 
I can't help you with making the decision, a lot depends on how Furio is in himself. 2 bladder stone ops in a month is major for a piggie, whether he can cope with this second chance is down to his physical and emotional condition, including how well he coped post-op three weeks ago.

If you do go with the surgery, I would recommend really going all out on post-op care and including everything known to help - Cystease/Cystaid, anti-inflammatories, Septrin, fluid therapy (absolute minimum 40ml per day, syringed orally (ensure low calcium water) or given by subQ injections), plus the correct calcum: phosphorus ratio - and consider a product to lower the pH of the urine, making it more difficult for stones to form, like hydrangea root tincture. It sounds a lot, it is a lot, but it all has a purpose and would give the best chance possible of preventing those stones from reforming.

Good luck whatever you decide, thinking of you and Furio. xx
 
What a dreadful position to be in, I really feel for you and little Jack. You can be guided by your vet and peoples experiences but at the end of the day you will have to make the decision that you feel is right for Jack.

Break things down a little. Forget for a minute that you are going away on holiday. If you weren't would you go ahead with the second op? If the answer is yes, then look into who will care for Jack in your absence, your piggy savvy friend or your vet/vet nurse? Are you concerned about having to meet the cost of further surgery so soon after the last bout (sorry, don't mean that to sound rude!)? If your vet feels Jack is a good candidate for further surgery ask about the possibility of paying off his fees in instalments.

I totally agree with Laura's post, if you go down the route of further surgery you are going to have to throw everything at Jack to help him with his recovery and to try to lessen the likelihood of stones re-forming.

I have had several piggies with stones and was in the same position as you two years ago. We opted for the surgery and my two boys actually went to stay with my vet - I have a fantastic relationship with her which made this possible. Curly had his surgery and went on to live a long and happy life, he sadly left me at the beginning of this year. I have also had another boy who had a large stone removed only to have lots more appear 3 weeks later. Tetley took ages to recover from his first surgery and never really seemed 100% well so when we found the second lot of stones it was with great sadness, after much discussion with my vet, that we helped him to RB. One of my girls also had a stone removed and has subsequently had several smaller stones successfully "expressed" manually under very light sedation.

The main problem with boars is their "plumbing". If a stone lodges in the urethera then it is very difficult to dislodge and I have known several piggies who have been in this position who have had to be helped to RB. I would be very loath, in your position, to leave Jack for two weeks just in case a stone does lodge itself, far better to remove them whilst they are in the bladder.

I'm sorry to have waffled on and that I can't offer more help. At the end of the day you will know what is right for Jack, I am just so sorry you are in this awful situation. Sending hugs and lots of luck.
 
Have a chat with Vedra at CCT, she has had a number of pigs bought to her with reoccuring bladder stones. She told me about one pig who was handed over to her with it's 3rd stone in 5 months, Vedra kept the pig and removed the stone and since has sat the pig on a vibrating cushion everyday and has had no more stones in 18 months. She's done this a number of times now. It might be worth a try 20 mins a day, it keeps the contents of the bladder from settling and forming a stone.
Have you looked at his diet as well? Laura's done a good guide on getting the calcium levels right.
If he's up to the op it might just be worth giving him a second chance and making some life style changes.
Good luck with what ever you decide.
 
Sending you my vibes - I lost one of my piggies after a second bladder operation when we couldn't get on top of the remaining inflammation in the bladder (even though the op wound was healing off well). It is a horrible situation to be, but only you can make that decision.

I agree with asking Vedra for advice.
 
Caviesgalore - the x-ray shown isnt my pigs; mine is Furio - Jack belongs to someone else! Comparing with that X-ray Id say all of Furio's are at least 3 times the size of the ones there, but not clustered in the tubes as they are.

I still dont know.

He recovered very well from the op - took a little while to come round properly but then was okay. As soon as I got him home he went straight in with my other pig, ate loads, slept, ate again, slept again and then returned pretty much completely to normal straight away.
2 ops in a month is a lot though, even for a healthy pig (which he otherwise is).

x
 
Where are you? perhaps someone from here could take him while you go on holiday and sort the op out and aftercare, a lot to ask I know but worth asking..
You would obvously have to foot the bill but at least he would be in good hands and you know he is not going to be PTS unless there is really nothing else to do, good luck.
 
I'm in Edinburgh. Dont think anyone else is nearby?

x
 
Everyone in the real world is telling me I should have him PTS. Well, not telling me, but gently hinting.
My boyfriend and one of my friends think I should go for the surgery.
My friend who trained as a vet, the one who will be caring for him whilst I'm away, is falling into the PTS camp.

I feel like if I have the op done it will be putting him through a painful and stressful experience, simply to keep him alive for - in all likelihood - further pain as the stones reccur. And it would be so awful to put him through all that and just have them come back. He's obviously in pain as he keeps shuddering and squeaking 8....

But then he's sat here cuddled up with me and I really dont want to have him PTS. That's probably selfish. But if he could manage to get better...... but then, 4 huge stones in 3 weeks :(...... he's my little friend though, I want him to live a few more years yet....... I dont know what to do......

I am terrible at decision making and this one is too hard :(

x
 
Sorry I may have confuse some people with talking about my Jack and putting pics up. But just wanted to share what I went through Jack was 3years and he was my fav piggy. I still cant believe hes gone. He went knowing that I tried my very best and I feel satisfied I done all I could have.
I too was going on hold but he picked up alot before I left. I left him with suzygpr and he was on top form when I got back. He wasnt 100% better but I thought he was getting there.
I just wish you all the luck in the world. And I know its harder to let them go when they are younger. But if you feel hes not given up and you havent either then keep going. But if you can see he cant take any more then stop dont go furthure. 8...
 
Sorry Jojoba have only just seen your post and realised I have refered to your little guy as "Jack" - sorry Furio! I'm afraid it's been a long day and it doesn't take much to confuse me these days!

Apologies once again for refering to Furio by the wrong name (also in my pm!):red

Sandra
 
Are stones in the urethra inoperable?
Because one of them is in his urethra and the vet didnt say (obviously) that it was inoperable....? Or is that just the Ureters?


x
 
I am guessing it depends how large the stones are.

In the cases we have experienced recently the stones have been the size of a small pea and have been well and truly stuck - because in each case the early warning signs were missed by the owners/one incompetent vet!. My vet, who is very piggy savvy, tried to remove the stones but said she was going to damage the Urethra in the boys beyond repair trying to get the stones out and the only option was PTS.:(

In the case of my Smudge (girl), Nicola was able to work them out by gently applying pressure on her bladder/tummy area and then flushed the bladder through to give it a thorough wash out. Sadly, I think the girls "plumbing" is easier to work with than boys.
 
Jojoba said:
Are stones in the urethra inoperable?
Because one of them is in his urethra and the vet didnt say (obviously) that it was inoperable....? Or is that just the Ureters?


x
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If its in the urethra it needs to be sorted asap cos it could stop the flow of urain and then course trouble for the piggy fast. Just make sure his urain flow is ok. I think this is operable.
In the ureters it is very dangerous to opperate. Its as thin as one pieace of hair. And can not be seen by the nacked eye. Sometimes the vet told me you can pop them like peas but the tubes are so thin they may tear them.
 
I''m so sorry to hear this and appreciate the difficult decision you may have to make.

Here's a suggestion:
If you want to go ahead with the op (or someone else's vet go ahead with the op after he has travelled).....then...

I am happy to take him while you are on holiday. I can get him into my exotics vet on sunday once he arrives for a full ultrasound and possible subsequent op. (share 50% of costs?) My special exotics vet is extremely competent....I promise you, he will have the best of care.

HOwever - you will need to organise a piggie train before he is too ill to travel. I am prepared to pick up from someone in Midlands area on Saturday to transport him to sussex ..... so you would need to organise his transport and then let me know where I can pick him up on saturday. I can travel friday at a push - but traffic is always carp..... so sat a bit more preferable

BONE FIDES: I have (now) 8 piggies - some outside and some inside. I am experienced at syringe feeding/critical care and various other piggie probs. He would be kept inside and monitored/treated..and much loved .I am a qualified microbiologist....for further info - backtrack my posts......

Up to you hun...much hugs - really appreciate your dilemma. Am personally happy to make the journey to pick up and deliver him back to you once you return

I really do know what a worry it is when\ if you go away....hence my offer


x
 
Hi,
It may be too late for your Piggy but there is a way to prevent kidney and bladder stones by adding few drops of cider vinegar to the drinking water. It supposed to dissolve them but I suppose it would only work as a prevention not a treatment of already existing stones. I still think it's worth trying anyway.
Anna
 
So sorry that you have to make such a difficult decision. I'm not sure what I would do in your situation. If I knew that the guinea pig was in lots of pain all of the time, then I would PTS, but I am guessing that your guinea pig isn't in pain all of the time, only when passing urine. It's difficult. It really is.
 
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