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Urgent help needed for Pigglywink...

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Pigglywink's Rachel

Brief synopsis (for further details, please read Pigglywink's been sick thread):

Treated nine weeks ago for mite infestation. Revolution (topical treatment) applied at vet's office. Follow up with anti-fungal treatment (suspected ringworm infection) for one week. Infestation located on lower back, anti-fungal gel applied once daily. Weight at this time was 1.01 kg.

Treated four weeks ago for a foot infection, chloramphenicol, 0.3 mL orally twice a day. Presented with anorexia prior to treatment, cause unknown. Weight at this time was 0.88 kg.

At this time, I inquired as to some crystals that seemed to be forming around her left eye. I was told that it was probably due to the pain from her foot inhibiting her self grooming.

Antibiotic treatment discontinued after five days, on advice of veterinary. X-ray was taken at this time, showing that there was no movement of food through the GI tract. No stools produced for 24 hours.

At time that x-ray was taken, her left eye was noticeably inflamed, inquired and was told that I should be more concerned with getting her gut moving.

Anorexia continued through antibiotic treatment to present, feeding supplemented by syringe feeding, three to four times daily, minimum three mL pellet based food, most taken was 10 mL. Fluid intake very minimal, supplemented by syringing of water five to six times daily, minimum 5 mL, most taken was 20 mL.

Taken to second vet (lost faith in the first one) one week ago regarding her eye, which was weeping, very red, and sunken quite deeply. Scraping was taken, was told that it was probably a self-limiting problem, but vet suggested Polysporin eye drops to prevent secondary bacterial infection. Same night (approximately four hours later), noted substantial discharge of foul smelling pus from eye. Squeezed around ear area towards eye. Produced approximately 10 mL of pus. Rinsed eye with sterile water after squeezing out as much pus as possible, applied eye drops. This treatment is being repeated three times per day, continuing to present. At this time she had diarrhea, wet and sticky, although not completely liquid. Weight at this time was 0.76 kg.

Contacted third vet four days ago regarding her eye. Was prescribed BNP antibiotic eye ointment, to be applied in place of Polysporin eye drops. Spoke to vet regarding continuing problems eating. Was told that there appeared to be some problems with the teeth, however it was inadvisable to proceed with treatment at this time, due to general poor health. Stools at this time were small, but normal in texture and appearance. Weight at this time was 0.74 kg.

Voluntary eating of food begun two days ago, approximately 20 mL of food, 50 mL of water taken yesterday. Eye seems to need to be squeezed out approximately once per day (no pus produced on other occasions), is no longer as sunken, and not as inflamed, but still definitely infected. Weight increased to 0.76 kg.

Noted today, after having changed out her cage, and provided her with a towel in her sleeping area last night, that her urine was reddish in colour, and that there was a thick residue left after it dried. Stools are small and hard. Concerned about dehydration, provided her with water via syringe. After four mL, she turned to back away from the syringe and I heard a sloshing sound coming from her stomach. Also eating much less (no more than 3 mL per feeding), and not eating voluntarily again.

Concerned about potential use of antibiotics, due to her continuing poor condition. Also, having problems finding a vet who will treat her. General consensus among the vets is that she should be put to sleep.

Was active yesterday, today has reverted to hiding in the corner of her cage, curled inwards into a ball.

Questions:

Should she be put back onto antibiotics, and, if so, what type?

If treated with antibiotics, in order to prevent a recurrence of the gut disturbance, she will need probiotics. Options available to me are (a) acidopholus, (b) lactobacillus/bifidobacterium mix meant for humans, or (c) probiotic treatment meant for cats or dogs (both are available).

Should the vet refuse to treat her, what alternative options are available. I have the chloramphenicol, but I don't know if the bad reaction was due to the fact that she didn't tolerate the drug, or that I was unaware that I needed to be giving her a probiotic supplement at that time.

Due to the difficulty with eating (her front bottom incisors appear very long, and her top incisors appear to be canted to the left), at what point would she be able to have that fixed?

Finally, should all treatment options fail, and her condition continue to deteriorate, should I allow nature to take its course, or would it be kinder to consider euthanasia? While I'm not willing to give up as long as there's hope, I also don't want her to suffer, and these infections seem to be running all the way through her body. She doesn't seem to be in pain, so I'm not willing to consider it at this point, but should she be in chronic pain at a later time, is it something to be considered?
 
Please, nice people from this forum, help Piggly... I've run out of ideas but many of you have more experience than me.... Please 8...8...8...
 
She MUST have probiotics ASAP. The destruction of the gut flora is one of her major problems. Bit naughty if the vet hasn't given her this already.

(a) acidopholus, (b) lactobacillus/bifidobacterium = basically the same thing. See if your local Pet Co / Pets at Home sell Vetark Pro-C Probiotic.
You do not need to get this from your vet.

BUT she clearly has other problems. If she has some sort of underlying illness it will make her more prone to mites, eye infections...the whole lot. The foot infection may be 'bumble foot' a bacterial infection that can spread to other parts of the body.
If she isn't eating much she will need extra Vit. C. Dissolve a small chunk of a 1000mg effervescent tablet (one eighth of a tablet) and give it to her from a dropper. You could put some glucose in the water (say half a teaspoon in three or four teaspoons of water) to give her some energy as she isn't eating enough to stay alive.

Sadly if she is sitting hunched in a corner you may have to prepare yourself for the worst. It may be kinder to have her quietly PTS to save further stress (on her and you). It sounds like she might have other problems going on which may take a lot of investigation which may be unfair. If the probiotic, vit C (all with plenty of water) and a bit of her favourite veg doesn't pull her round it may be kinder to let her go.


Edited to say ....have just read the long original thread and realised that much of this has already been said. It sounded from above post that she hadn't had any probiotic at all and that rung alarm bells!
 
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Vitamin B will help boost her apetite but if the source of her not eating is a dental one this will only help if you continue syringe feeding.

Juniper has given some great advice re what else to syringe feed her.

It does sound as if this poor little lady is trying but has a lot of problems. If you can get some weight on and improve her strength there might be a chance you can sort out the dental/ other problems.

Has the vet offered any pain management medication? metacam is a pain killer and anti inflamitory which might help.

If she has had an underlying infection/problem for nine weeks her body is fighting some major infection.

In answer to your questions:
Sounds like she has had a lot of antibiotics, not sure if i would give her any more until her gut problem is sorted.

Problems with the front teeth usually involve problems with the back teeth too, to investifate and correct this your vet would probably want to anethesitise her which is out of the question at the moment. She probably would not survive the procedure in such poor condition.

If all treatment is unsuccessful I would consider euthanasia rather than letting nature take it's course as she would not have pain relief etc and would have a suffering end. Assessing pain in guinea pigs is difficult as they do not show many signs due to being a prey animal. If she is hunched up in a corner and fluffed up is a good sign she is infact in pain. To euthanise a guinea pig involves an injection to the heart be sure that they use an anesthetic first as it is much kinder, just for my peace of mind I make sure I am with the guineas if they need to be pts when they are gassed to be sure they have a peaceful end.

Try some pain relief, and the mixture juniper suggested plus some vitamin B and seehow she goes.
 
I'm sorry you and Pigglywink are going through such a rough time.

You will know when she is ready to give up. Medically there may be very convincing reason to euthanise, but a pigs spiritual state counts as much. Medically I should have lost Charlie 18 months ago, his physical condition was quite severe by the time I did lose him. His time only came 8 months ago - after nine months of living with a huge kidney tumour - when he laid his head in his salad and was too weak to get up. Everything about him were signs that his body had given up, he couldn't keep his body going any longer. Piggywink will let you know if the time comes when she needs help to pass over.
It would depend on the severity of her problems, if you were to let her pass naturally. If you could give strong painkillers to ease off all pain, I see very few situations when I would choose euthanasia over nature.

As far as the medical side of things go...are any of these recommended vets near you?
http://www.guinealynx.info/cabinet/index.php/Veterinarians_Canada

The advised amount of water for a guinea pig is 40ml per day, so she is getting a really good amount. She certainly shouldn't be dehydrated with 50ml.

Antibiotics...Septrin (TMS/Trimethoprin Sulpha/Bactrim) is considered to be the best tolerated. I don't know how effective it will be to Pigglywink's problems, but it may be gentler on her body than others like Chloramphenicol and Baytril.

It does sound like she needs dental work. Is there absolutely no way your vet will try working on the incisors without anesthetic? With incisor trouble sometimes comes molar trouble, but if the incisors are overgrown, she won't be able to pick up food, so it is worth getting the front teeth seen to.

What is the name of the probiotic for cats and dogs? There is one in the US, so maybe also Canda, called Bene-Bac. This is a good probiotic; I often use it as a friend sends it over for me. Alternatively, the acidophilus is a perfectly fine option.

Good luck Rachel, keep us updated. *Hugs*. x
 
Sounds like she has dental issues too now with not eating obviously the teeth are growing too. If you can find a vet willing to sort her out that would be my first port of call but in all honesty having gone through it myself I do agree with Juniper prepare yourself for the worst, I know its hard. Is Pigglywink an elderly pig? Sorry if you've already mentioned her age, I must have missed it.

Will be thinking of you (((hugs)))

Louise
x
 
I know it's not what you wanted to hear, but you will know in your heart of heats whe the time is right. And Piggly will let you know too. My Rene never shied away from me and would volunteer for cuddles unlike when he was healthy and that's why I never considered having him PTS. All I can say is that I hope that if you have to make THAT decision, you will keep visiting this forum and stay in the world of Guinea owners... Chin up, try whatever's been advised here and touch wood she'll pick up a bit...

Sending you all the best wishes from this corner of England. x>>
 
I'm sorry to hear about Pigglywink's troubles. I'm not an expert either, but agree with giving the probiotic, it can only help any gut problems. Good luck, I do hope she can pull through x
 
It sounds like her problems are really complex and I have no experience of dealing with these. I wish more than anything that I could offer you some good advice, but I don't know what to suggest. All I can do is offer you good luck and my best wishes, I will keep my fingers crossed for both of you x
 
She will not need to be anaesthetised to have her front teeth clipped. If done quickly and competently it is not much worse than nail clipping. It would perhaps improve her chances a little although the molars may need doing too.

Often tooth problems require repeated treatment but in her case it is likely that she doesn't really have 'ongoing' tooth problems, it's just due to overgrowth through lack of eating (for other reasons) so one tooth trim may be all that is required.
Is there any Canadian equivalent of the UK 'Rodentologists'.
Have you tried watermelon as a tempting food? Some pigs really love it.
 
[Often tooth problems require repeated treatment but in her case it is likely that she doesn't really have 'ongoing' tooth problems, it's just due to overgrowth through lack of eating (for other reasons) so one tooth trim may be all that is required. [/FONT][/COLOR]
Is there any Canadian equivalent of the UK 'Rodentologists'.
Have you tried watermelon as a tempting food? Some pigs really love it.

Oh yes, mine love melon especially honey dew (yellow) and watermelon... They generally prefer the rind but in cases of poor dental health the flesh went down easier... C'm Piggly, you can do it!:)
 
Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I don't know if I'll be doing the right thing, but, after calling the vets office and basically arguing with the vet for fifteen minutes (she really wants me to put Pigglywink to sleep, and has told me that if I refuse she will be reporting me to the SPCA for cruelty, this without having seen Pigglywink for four days, including the drastic improvement in appearance), I have opted to not take her to the vet right now.

I have found the name of a vet that is apparently the best the Comox Valley has to offer in regards to exotic animal care, and he has agreed to take a look at her teeth if I can get her weight up to 0.85 kg, due to the fact that he is unwilling/able to do the dental work with Pigglywink awake. Just because he's the best available here, it doesn't mean that he's a great guinea pig vet. As for the other issues, he believes that any further antibiotic use will probably kill her. He has suggested probiotic use be increased to ensure that her gut is working (have been giving her quarter of one human dose per day, divided into three). He suggested using a half of a human dose, one third of half dose per feeding (bearing in mind that one human dose is to be taken three times daily for humans). He also suggested giving her cranberry juice, diluted to help with the urinary problems. One part juice mixed with five parts water. He also suggested using regular cranberry cocktail, as it's cranberry juice and glucose for sweetening, and he thinks that the glucose may help her with the energy needed to help fight off the infection, as well as having Vitamin C added.

As for the vet list provided by Guinea Lynx, the nearest one of those listed is 1000 km away, and one province over, plus having to cross the Strait of Georgia (equivalent to the English Channel, I believe) and two mountain ranges in between, but thanks for the link anyway.

As for the eating issue, he suggested soft foods, syringe feeding no more than three times daily (as we don't want her to get dependent on it), and that she be provided with anything she will eat, except for foods that are high in calcium. He also suggested supplementing pellet food via syringe with baby food, suggested carrots, peas and pear as good foods, since they're evidently easily digested by guinea pigs, and provide more nutrients than other foods.

He also pointed out, in gentle terms, that if Pigglywink is unable to eat on her own and unable to digest food that is syringe fed into her, then she may starve to death, regardless of the fact that food is being put into her. Should she continue to lose weight, he suggested that anything below 0.68 kg and I should consider if Pigglywink is getting any actual nutrition into her system, due to lack of absorption from the GI tract.
 
I'm really sorry I don't have any suggestions for you except to say you're already doing so much more than a lot of people would for your poorly piggy and at least you can say you gave her a chance.

I tend to feel if they're wanting to eat then I'll do what I can to help them and hope they get better. Once they stop eating it is really really hard to pull them through, and I have to say I haven't managed it yet but that's not to say it's not possible.

It sounds like the new vet at least has given you some options. Only you know what condition she is in and whether her quality of life is good enough to persevere. It's a horrible position to be in and lots of us have been there. Sending you healing vibes and fingers crossed for Piggly Wink here!

Sophie
x
 
I have nothing to suggest as you are doing everything possible but sending best wishes your way x
 
The new vet (number four... I bet words gotten out about me), has said that there isn't much point me paying for an appointment when there aren't any treatment options that he can perform right now. He's hesitant to give her any drugs at this point, as even a minor reaction would probably push her right over the edge, and even the gentlest of drugs can't be guaranteed not to have an adverse side effect.

We set up an appointment for Saturday, which I'm to keep if she's either better or worse. Better he'll look into the dental issue and possible medication, if she's worse, we'll have to assess the probability of her improving at all. If she's just the same, then it's my call as to whether I want to keep trying or not, but he won't do anything, medically, until her condition improves.

The sad thing is that poor Pigglywink is only six months old (unless the pet store completely lied about her age). She appeared to be full grown when I got her, or at least she hasn't gotten any bigger since I got her, so whether they were telling the truth about her being three months old when I got her, I have no idea.

The only issue I'm having, over and over and over again, is that the vets all keep telling me that they don't have any pain relieving drugs for guinea pigs, except for steroid drugs, which they don't want to give her. Is there any over the counter medication that works on guinea pigs? Generic names, if possible (ie ibuprofen instead of Advil), as I probably don't have the same brand names available that you have over there.
 
I would personally avoid oral antibiotics for her eye as this would probably cause more problems for her gut. I used Tiacil eye drops when my piggie had a corneal ulcer. These drops can also be used when treating conjunctivitis so I'd think they could be used for treating an eye infection. I've also heard of another antibiotic eye ointment called terramycin that could be used. A human eye ointment used to treat eye infections is brolene. If you can't get to a shop clean the eye with warm salty water. Salt is a natural healer. There is an over the counter product that we can buy called Optrex for Infected Eyes. I don't whether this would be of any use. I've now remembered the name of the other eye drops which were better for Ginger than the Tiacil. They are Fucithalmic eye drops. This would be my no 1 choice. It is advisable that anti-inflammatories are not given to piggies due to side effects. However Vedra, who is a rodentologist, recommended baby nurofen, 0.2mls twice a day. This can be given as an emergency and can be bought over the counter.
 
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Pigglywink is very bad tonight. Her eye, which seemed to be improving somewhat, is very bad again, she won't eat or drink (pushes the food out of her mouth with her tongue when I tried to syringe feed her. She also cries whenever she is touched, and is spending all of her time curled up in the cuddle cup that I just bought her. There were smears of dried blood on the towel when I got home from work. I don't think she's going to make it, despite all of my best efforts. For tonight, I've made her as comfortable as possible, given her 0.2 mL of ibuprofen suspension (designed for infants), although I'm not sure if any of it actually made it into her stomach, since she's also using her tongue to push the water out. I'm hoping that some small amount may have made it into her, enough to relieve the pain somewhat. If she makes it through until tomorrow, and is still in the same shape as she is currently, I think it may be time to let her cross the bridge. She's obviously in pain now, and I don't think it would be fair for me to allow it to continue until she expires on her own.

I know that many people on here are bound to have strong feelings about the issue, but if simple hand pressure on her neck and back is causing squeals of pain, I don't feel that I have any alternative. I only hope that the universe will not judge me too harshly, should I be making the wrong decision.

Thank you to everyone for your suggestions and support... Pigglywink has brought such joy into my life, and I intend to continue providing homes for others, once I've had time to mourn the loss of my Piggly, and I hope that I'll still be welcome in this forum, as I try to learn more about what I have done to cause this, in order to prevent it happening again.:0
 
I think you've done all you can, if she is crying when being touched then maybe its better to let her go. Nobody will judge you here at all. (((hugs))) x
 
we're all behind you. i've just read this thread as i haven't really been an active member recently. unfortunately i personally think pts is the best option for pigglywink. i know you'll do your best and the best thing for your little pig. please stay on the forum as every bit of information is useful to all. i'm sure you'd like to stay and keep your foot in too! i'm sorry you're going through this. xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx:...:...:...
 
certainly true, i have just seen this thread and agree with Lou and Claire completely.

Its your decision at the end of the day and whatever you decide, you will not be judged and we will be behind you.

xx
 
I'm so sorry....8...:0 Please keep posting whatever happens.
 
Huge huge huge HUGS and love from me i know what it's like to go thru something similar, to see a piggie go down hill is not nice at all, it's gut wrenching stuff 8...8...
I wish you and little Pigglywink all the best, bless her she sounds such a little trouper xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Take care little one your mummy adores you so much and has tried everything xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>xx>>>
 
I too had a situation like this, and I hope for your sake that pigglywink makes the choice on her own...
It saves the doubts... but whatever you do I will not blame you for as you had Pigglywinks best intrests at heart...
 
I'm so sorry to hear that Pigglywink is taking a turn for the worse. From what you have described I believe you are right in your decision, it may be her time to go. No one on here will judge you for making this decision. It's also the hardest one to make.
 
Pigglywink's Rachel, As we haven't heard from you since early morning (GMT), I am fearing the worst.:Ayociexp118: Please be assured of the utmost care and support from TGPF. You are only far away in distance but close to us in our hearts and our thoughts.:laluot_29:
 
Pigglywink is still hanging on, still hiding in her cuddle cup (I'm so glad I didn't wait to give it to her). I have to prepare my son for letting her go, and then we'll need to take a trip to the vet. I'll be back in a couple days, just now I need to concentrate on helping Pigglywink find the Rainbow Bridge, and helping my son allow her to cross over it.

Thank you all for your thoughts and prayers. I'm thinking it's not going to be a last minute reversal this time, though, and I think she's ready to go, since she's refusing all food and drink... it still hurts her when I touch her neck and back, but she's enjoying having her head lightly stroked, as long as it doesn't back her to the end of the cuddle bag, since that seems to hurt her, too. Giving her lots of loves, and making sure she knows that we love her and will miss her.

Thanks so much,
Rache x
 
You have made a very brave decision Rachel. We'll all be thinking of you all and here when you want to chat xx
 
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