URI or heart issues?

[Virgo]

I posted a few months ago about my Maggie (she'll be 7 in a week or so) as she was losing weight for no apparent reason, but her weight has since stabilised at around 920g.

Now in the last week or so I noticed that she's been having episodes of hiccups that last around 30 seconds and her sides appear to be working a little harder than usual (perhaps hard to tell as she's quite a bit thinner than she was 6 months ago). I've taken her to the vets and they don't seem to know what the hiccups are about (I've done research and I don't think they're the violent heaving hiccups - she just will suddenly make jerking movements like hiccups but still be going about things as usual).

Her chest sounds clear, her breathing isn't noisy and there are no other symptoms other than the hiccups and sides moving a bit harder, but I've been given baytril at 0.7ml once a day for 7-10 days in case of a URI. Aside from being concerned that baytril might upset her tummy (she's always had a sensitive tummy), I've wondering whether her symptoms could be heart related? I did mention whether her sides working quite hard could be to do with her heart, but the vet just said only possibly if there was fluid building up in her lungs and putting pressure on her heart (she didn't think this was likely). But I've read about heart issues/heart disease and a little concerned I should be pushing to have her heart investigated as well? Any thoughts would be great!

 

[Wiebke]

I posted a few months ago about my Maggie (she'll be 7 in a week or so) as she was losing weight for no apparent reason, but her weight has since stabilised at around 920g.

Now in the last week or so I noticed that she's been having episodes of hiccups that last around 30 seconds and her sides appear to be working a little harder than usual (perhaps hard to tell as she's quite a bit thinner than she was 6 months ago). I've taken her to the vets and they don't seem to know what the hiccups are about (I've done research and I don't think they're the violent heaving hiccups - she just will suddenly make jerking movements like hiccups but still be going about things as usual).

Her chest sounds clear, her breathing isn't noisy and there are no other symptoms other than the hiccups and sides moving a bit harder, but I've been given baytril at 0.7ml once a day for 7-10 days in case of a URI. Aside from being concerned that baytril might upset her tummy (she's always had a sensitive tummy), I've wondering whether her symptoms could be heart related? I did mention whether her sides working quite hard could be to do with her heart, but the vet just said only possibly if there was fluid building up in her lungs and putting pressure on her heart (she didn't think this was likely). But I've read about heart issues/heart disease and a little concerned I should be pushing to have her heart investigated as well? Any thoughts would be great!

Hi! It is likely the heart that is starting to go into failure.

Did your vets check the chest cavity for a fluid build up - it is either that or the lungs, but never both?
I would recommend to have her checked over at an exotics vet and see whether heart medication can help. It either kicks in very quickly or doesn't work at all.

Since we have members and enquiries from all over the world, we find it very helpful if you please added your country, state/province or UK county to your details so we can always tailor any advice to what is relevant and available where you are straight away. Click on your username on the top bar, then go to account details and then down to location. This makes it appear with every post you make and saves everybody time. In your case, that means vet recommendations (if possible) as well as possible brand names to ask your vet about.
Thank you!

 

[Virgo]

Thanks, I'll add my location!

The vet listened to her chest and heart and said that obviously as she's in a foreign environment her heart is going to be beating fast anyway and it's hard to know if there's a problem or not. From reading other posts, it seems that the only way to really get a check on the heart is an x-ray? And I'm wary of doing that as I fear even light sedation would be risky for Maggie at her age. Obviously if it got to a point of life and death I would risk getting an x-ray done.

Ideally, as you say, I'd start her on heart meds, and if there's no harm in giving them if there isn't actually anything wrong with her heart, then that's good. I've registered with a new practice that do have more experience with exotics than my last practice, but I have ended up seeing a different vet every time and none have mentioned the heart at all. I'm not sure how to direct them to trying heart meds if it's not something that even crosses their minds!

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks, I'll add my location!

The vet listened to her chest and heart and said that obviously as she's in a foreign environment her heart is going to be beating fast anyway and it's hard to know if there's a problem or not. From reading other posts, it seems that the only way to really get a check on the heart is an x-ray? And I'm wary of doing that as I fear even light sedation would be risky for Maggie at her age. Obviously if it got to a point of life and death I would risk getting an x-ray done.

Ideally, as you say, I'd start her on heart meds, and if there's no harm in giving them if there isn't actually anything wrong with her heart, then that's good. I've registered with a new practice that do have more experience with exotics than my last practice, but I have ended up seeing a different vet every time and none have mentioned the heart at all. I'm not sure how to direct them to trying heart meds if it's not something that even crosses their minds!

I would mention the diaphragmic/heaving sides breathing and ask for a thorough check. Heart issues are unfortunately very tricky to diagnose, but if the lungs are clear then the strain must be on the heart.

I've just lost my Pili Pala to that problem 10 days ago when she unexpectedly went into acute heart failure on a Sunday (figures!), so it was a toss up between risking to lose her on the way or to during examination or staying at home and sit out the inevitable. But her heart was really straining badly with every beat. She'd been getting frailer after a year on medical and feeding support and collecting more and more difficult to treat problems.

 

[Virgo]

Oh no, I'm so sorry, that must have been so tough to know what to do

I've got a follow-up appointment on the 22nd, and I will really push possible heart issues to see if they are willing to prescribe meds. Are there any names in particular to be aware of? Do you think it's worth continuing to give the baytril (0.4ml twice a day) until then? My thinking is that if Maggie's tummy doesn't get upset then it wouldn't hurt to definitely rule out an URI if I can show the vet that the baytril hasn't cured her symptoms?

 

[Wiebke]

Oh no, I'm so sorry, that must have been so tough to know what to do

I've got a follow-up appointment on the 22nd, and I will really push possible heart issues to see if they are willing to prescribe meds. Are there any names in particular to be aware of? Do you think it's worth continuing to give the baytril (0.4ml twice a day) until then? My thinking is that if Maggie's tummy doesn't get upset then it wouldn't hurt to definitely rule out an URI if I can show the vet that the baytril hasn't cured her symptoms?

Please continue with the baytril. It is important to rule out a URI.

Keep in mind that we cannot diagnose reliably without a hands-on examination, nor are we qualified to.
We can only show you avenues to pursue with your vet based on our knowledge and experiences.

@helen105281 and @Jaycey have more practical experience with looking after heart piggies and which medications work best.

 

[DM030819]

One of my foster pigs was rushed to the vet a couple of weeks ago with a breathing issue. His sides were heaving and he wasn't eating any food.

He was put on a diuretic to reduce the fluid on his chest. As he was struggling to breathe he was also put in an oxygen tank.

He's not has any discharge from his nose at all. He's not 100% yet but he's so much better. As he can breathe easier he's happier to eat.

Has any diuretic been tried with your piggy @Virgo?

 

[Virgo]

The vet listened to Maggie's chest and said it sounded clear so no diuretic given.

She's still acting perfectly normally, although as she's 7 next week, she has slowed down a bit in recent months and lost some weight, despite having a ferocious appetite. Her weight has plateaued now though. I'm a little worried about having her on baytril for so long as she's always had a sensitive tummy and in the last year she's had a few episodes of bloat, so I don't want to bring on another episode of that too!

I'm not sure if I'd described her sides as 'heaving' so to speak - you can see her sides going in and out and her head moving a little with it but she doesn't seem uncomfortable. That's why I'm starting to wonder if it's her heart rather than her breathing/a URI..

 

[DM030819]

@Virgo It could be a heart issue. I just wanted to check because with Ted he seemed fine except that his stomach was really heaving in and out. He wasn't nodding his head or anything.

My vet has said how hard it is to diagnose a heart issue, as piggies hearts are so very tiny, so it's not an easy diagnosis to make. But, sometimes a trial of med's might help. I can't remember what the drug doses my boy had as it was many years ago, but I can check if it helps? He wasn't officially diagnosed as a heart pig, but he had many issues and the drugs helped him.

 

[Virgo]

@Virgo It could be a heart issue. I just wanted to check because with Ted he seemed fine except that his stomach was really heaving in and out. He wasn't nodding his head or anything.

My vet has said how hard it is to diagnose a heart issue, as piggies hearts are so very tiny, so it's not an easy diagnosis to make. But, sometimes a trial of med's might help. I can't remember what the drug doses my boy had as it was many years ago, but I can check if it helps? He wasn't officially diagnosed as a heart pig, but he had many issues and the drugs helped him.

That would be realky helpful if you can, thank you. I want to go to Maggie's follow-up appointment armed with as much information as possible!

 

[DM030819]

@Virgo Sorry for the delay in replying, it took me ages to find!

My boy was on:

10mg Frusemide (Frusol) half am, half pm
2.5mg Fortekor half am, half pm
1.25mh Vetmedin half am, half pm

At first he was only on the Frusol and Fortekor . He was okay, but not great so we added in Vetmedin. It really helped.

The plan was to reduce the Frusol as it was quite a big dose but he never did well on a reduced dose, so we had to ensure he didn't get dehydrated.

All pigs are different so our treatment may not work for your pig and so your vet will be able to review the current medications and see if any of the above would help.

Good luck!

 

[Virgo]

@Virgo Sorry for the delay in replying, it took me ages to find!

My boy was on:

10mg Frusemide (Frusol) half am, half pm
2.5mg Fortekor half am, half pm
1.25mh Vetmedin half am, half pm

At first he was only on the Frusol and Fortekor . He was okay, but not great so we added in Vetmedin. It really helped.

The plan was to reduce the Frusol as it was quite a big dose but he never did well on a reduced dose, so we had to ensure he didn't get dehydrated.

All pigs are different so our treatment may not work for your pig and so your vet will be able to review the current medications and see if any of the above would help.

Good luck!

Thank you for doing that @Jaycey it's much appreciated I will show the vet what you've written and hope they take me seriously!