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Urinary problems - a decision to make

BlueBird

BlueBird

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hi.
Our Bonnie has just come back from the vet having been on sulfratrim, enrobactin and meloxaid for bloody urine for 10days (more for the antibiotics).

Unfortunately we got a shock as the urine tests came back with a LOT of blood in her urine (she seemed better in herself but that's obvious the drugs talking). The vet has presented her with a difficult decision and suggested xray/ultrasound followed by surgery. This was not what we wanted to hear.

Bonnie made a poor recovery with the removal of a mammory growth last year having had a massive post-op infection that took 2-3months to get rid of. It was a long road to recovery and it wasn't something we wanted to do to her again. She's no spring chicken either at roughly 4years old.

I guess my question to you guys is some advice on what to do. I know the choice is ultimately ours but I feel like I'm between a rock and a hard place with this and want some guidance. :(
 
I think I’d be tempted to have an X-ray and/or scan to find out what the potential problem is. Is the vet suggesting a stone, a tumour (if so where) or blood from the genital tract? Without diagnostic tests it does seem hard to know what you might be dealing with. Poor Bonnie and poor you.
 
I agree with Vicki, the surgery might be necessary but the tests definitely are to pinpoint what the problem is or to rule out conditions. Only with the results of the tests and knowing what you are dealing with can your vet recommend the best course of action and the prognosis both with and without surgery
 
I too would be inclined to have the X-ray and scan done. You will then know what you are dealing with and can make any decisions from there.

Just to point out that a lot of blood doesn’t necessarily mean that there’s definitely a stone so try not to worry just that
 
I’m sorry to hear bonnie isn’t well. I agree about having the X-ray/scan done to see where things stand, and then reassess based on that.
 
Hi all. I've calmed down a bit from earlier. Basically the bet suspects a stone within the urinary system, whether that's in the bladder, kidney or urthera we don't know yet. She doesn't suspect it's in the reproductive system as she believes her behaviour would be different. Regardless, we asked what would be the next steps after the various investigations and they were all surgical options of various seriousness. Hence the emotion in the opening post.
 
BlueBird said:
Hi all. I've calmed down a bit from earlier. Basically the bet suspects a stone within the urinary system, whether that's in the bladder, kidney or urthera we don't know yet. She doesn't suspect it's in the reproductive system as she believes her behaviour would be different. Regardless, we asked what would be the next steps after the various investigations and they were all surgical options of various seriousness. Hence the emotion in the opening post.
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I'm sorry to hear that the vet suspects a stone :( But try not to panic until you know for sure and then reassess
 
Hi all,
So Bonnie went for a scan today and it's confirmed it's a stone. BOO! and even worse it needs surgery to fix. BIGGER BOO!

It's located not too far from the bladder in the ureter between bladder and the kidney. The vet wants to "milk" (lol) the stone into the bladder and remove it from there. She seems to want to go ahead with the surgery. The vet we were talking to before the mammory op really didn't want to do it for fear of infection... Which then happened. So leaning off the vet's reaction I'm a lot happier going for surgery. They are the experts right.

Unfortunately my husband is a different kettle of fish. He's dead against the surgery. He was there for most of Bonnie's recovery last time (I was away for a friends wedding abroad) so I missed the worst of poor Bonnie's recovery, with wounds popping open and daily trips to the vet to flush puss out of wounds. I did not see the worst of it and I think both Bonnie and the hubby found it really traumatic. Plus he has in the back of his mind that £700+ is a lot to spend on a guinea pig and her bill will be more when she goes under the knife again. I don't think like that and renial failure seems a horrible way to go. But I am concious she's 4-5 now and the fact that I didn't see the reality of surgery last time.

So could someone share experience with me. Does a bad surgical recovery mean there's a greater risk of bad recoveries happening again. Do bladder stones reoccur?

P. S: Bonnie is definitely the unlucky one in my herd! Maybe that's why she's the favvy but shhhh don't tell the others. :)
 
BlueBird said:
Hi all,
So Bonnie went for a scan today and it's confirmed it's a stone. BOO! and even worse it needs surgery to fix. BIGGER BOO!

It's located not too far from the bladder in the ureter between bladder and the kidney. The vet wants to "milk" (lol) the stone into the bladder and remove it from there. She seems to want to go ahead with the surgery. The vet we were talking to before the mammory op really didn't want to do it for fear of infection... Which then happened. So leaning off the vet's reaction I'm a lot happier going for surgery. They are the experts right.

Unfortunately my husband is a different kettle of fish. He's dead against the surgery. He was there for most of Bonnie's recovery last time (I was away for a friends wedding abroad) so I missed the worst of poor Bonnie's recovery, with wounds popping open and daily trips to the vet to flush puss out of wounds. I did not see the worst of it and I think both Bonnie and the hubby found it really traumatic. Plus he has in the back of his mind that £700+ is a lot to spend on a guinea pig and her bill will be more when she goes under the knife again. I don't think like that and renial failure seems a horrible way to go. But I am concious she's 4-5 now and the fact that I didn't see the reality of surgery last time.

So could someone share experience with me. Does a bad surgical recovery mean there's a greater risk of bad recoveries happening again. Do bladder stones reoccur?

P. S: Bonnie is definitely the unlucky one in my herd! Maybe that's why she's the favvy but shhhh don't tell the others. :)
Click to expand...
Just to answer one question you have there, bladder stones are known to reoccur yea, but not always. I had an old boar who was 6, with 3 bladder stones that were inoperable, and he died , I just couldn't let him go, I would go for the surgery myself, I wish I could have back then with my boar
 
It's not guaranteed but my vet said that some piggies are prone to them so there is no guarantee they will stay stone free either. I had a piggy last year go through the same surgery but it wasn't close to the bladder so needed removing from the ureter. The risk of leaving it though is it can block that tube and cause a back up of urine in the kidney causing kidney failure. There's no way to know whether it would pass into the bladder or become stuck. I believe we have to take the vets guidance and go with the best option which it sounds like your vet is recommending the surgery. My Donald cane round ok from the surgery but went downhill two weeks later with the other kidney so we let him go which was so hard when the bill had already come to £1000
 
SkyPipDotBernie said:
What diet were you feeding? Have a good look through this thread

Feeding the guinea pigs at TEAS
Click to expand...
I try to feed as close to the recommended feeding guide on this forum. Though I probably feed them too much veg if I'm brutally honest. They get a small ramekin of pellets between 3 of them plus a dish of veg in morning and evening. The veg is usually leaves of some kind and another vegetable or two. Staples are leaves and cucumber, with carrot, pepper, herbs, tomatoes, broccoli and some fruits like strawberries/Satsumas etc on rotation though I wouldn't say they get any of those regularly. I try and keep their diet semi seasonal too so for the leaves its mainly the cabbages in winter and lettuces in the summer. As for hay we feed. Not sure what type it is. I assume its just regular meadow hay. It's not special. It's from a farm in Derbyshire.

That thread was interesting though. Bonnie is a rescue who was getting on for fat when we got her. So she probably didn't have the best of diets before us. As for stress, they are in a public area of the flat but it's just me and the hubby. There cage is off to a quieter area and we don't have huge gatherings very often so it's pretty chill but she is a timid sort so it has perhaps contributed. :(

I think I'd like to go for surgery even if she is turning into a very expensive guinea. The hubby is in full only avoidance mode though. He doesn't really want to talk about it at the moment so it's clear he's very conflicted about it I. E. Realising she needs it but doesn't want to put her through that trauma and horrible recovery again. :/
 
BlueBird said:
Hi all,
So Bonnie went for a scan today and it's confirmed it's a stone. BOO! and even worse it needs surgery to fix. BIGGER BOO!

It's located not too far from the bladder in the ureter between bladder and the kidney. The vet wants to "milk" (lol) the stone into the bladder and remove it from there. She seems to want to go ahead with the surgery. The vet we were talking to before the mammory op really didn't want to do it for fear of infection... Which then happened. So leaning off the vet's reaction I'm a lot happier going for surgery. They are the experts right.

Unfortunately my husband is a different kettle of fish. He's dead against the surgery. He was there for most of Bonnie's recovery last time (I was away for a friends wedding abroad) so I missed the worst of poor Bonnie's recovery, with wounds popping open and daily trips to the vet to flush puss out of wounds. I did not see the worst of it and I think both Bonnie and the hubby found it really traumatic. Plus he has in the back of his mind that £700+ is a lot to spend on a guinea pig and her bill will be more when she goes under the knife again. I don't think like that and renial failure seems a horrible way to go. But I am concious she's 4-5 now and the fact that I didn't see the reality of surgery last time.

So could someone share experience with me. Does a bad surgical recovery mean there's a greater risk of bad recoveries happening again. Do bladder stones reoccur?

P. S: Bonnie is definitely the unlucky one in my herd! Maybe that's why she's the favvy but shhhh don't tell the others. :)
Click to expand...

Recovery often depends on a vet's skill, how difficult the operation was/how long a piggy has been under and how well it has been looked after in post-recovery at the vet's.

Your piggy obviously has got a stone in the ureter between kidney and bladder and not the more common stones in the bladder or the urethra between bladder and anus. but if your vet is fairly confident that they can manipulate the stone down into the bladder from where it is relatively straight forward to pick up, then the prognosis is not too bad.

As to the reoccurrance of stones: it depends on what is causing them. A stone caused by a die that is too high in calcium is usually a one-off. If you are dealing with something that has gone wrong in the complex calcium absorption process and/or a genetic issue, then things are a bit more difficult in the short term (where a reoccurrance can happen before things gradually settle down) although a consequent low calcium diet can usually get on top of stones in the longer term in my own experience in most cases.

Make sure that your piggy is drinking plenty, have a session each day where you offer water by syringe to your piggy, as much as she will take in one session to encourage a large pee, or put her on a diet that is more disposed to veg rich in fluid (but not so much that you end up with diarrhea so the urinary tract system from the kidneys is flushed regularly and stones have a much harder time to form. but please NEVER force any water down any piggy that it is not willing to take!
Here are out dietary tips: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
 
Wiebke said:
Recovery often depends on a vet's skill, how difficult the operation was/how long a piggy has been under and how well it has been looked after in post-recovery at the vet's.

Your piggy obviously has got a stone in the ureter between kidney and bladder and not the more common stones in the bladder or the urethra between bladder and anus. but if your vet is fairly confident that they can manipulate the stone down into the bladder from where it is relatively straight forward to pick up, then the prognosis is not too bad.

As to the reoccurrance of stones: it depends on what is causing them. A stone caused by a die that is too high in calcium is usually a one-off. If you are dealing with something that has gone wrong in the complex calcium absorption process and/or a genetic issue, then things are a bit more difficult in the short term (where a reoccurrance can happen before things gradually settle down) although a consequent low calcium diet can usually get on top of stones in the longer term in my own experience in most cases.

Make sure that your piggy is drinking plenty, have a session each day where you offer water by syringe to your piggy, as much as she will take in one session to encourage a large pee, or put her on a diet that is more disposed to veg rich in fluid (but not so much that you end up with diarrhea so the urinary tract system from the kidneys is flushed regularly and stones have a much harder time to form. but please NEVER force any water down any piggy that it is not willing to take!
Here are out dietary tips: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets
Click to expand...
Thank you weibke. As always you are a fountain of knowledge. Nice to know the prognosis *may* be good if all things go well. Bonnie will certainly be pleased with the more wet veg suggestion. She loves her veg so much that the nurse when she was coming round seemed a bit surprised to find everything she put in when she was coming round from the anesthesia completely gone in minutes lol. 😅
 
I have no advice to offer you have had some really great advice above. I just wanted to send you a huge hug. And love to little Bonnie x x
 
Bonnie is back from her surgery! The stone was the size of a small pea. :eek: the op went well apparently. But her bladder was double the size of a normal bladder. (ouch!) plus her uterus was showing signs of disease(?) the tissues had thickened etc. So she would recommend getting her spayed at a later date. I'm not sure whether I'd want to do that to a guinea 4-5yrs old... She did give me the impression that spaying guineas is now recommended like it is for rabbits. Whereas previously I was told they didn't because it was all too small. But ultimately it went well so now begins the recovery.

Vet has put her on sulfratrim and meloxaid and has told me to use vit c drops for kids on her for the next couple of weeks. She's also got some recovery feed to have for the next couple of days and we have to switch them to Timothy hay permanently. And we've got to go back for the next 3 days to get her some opioids.

She seems a lot better than her previous surgery. A lot brighter. But she is obviously in pain, hiding in the same hide she dashed into when she got back and only nibbling at food so off to give her some syringed recovery food.
 
Glad the surgery went well and hoping for a speedy recovery.
It can take a few days for recovery - after all humans usually feel grotty for a few days after surgery.

I add some mashed banana when I have to syringe feed - my piggies love it.
 
Hi guys,

Little update for you. First day after surgery Bonnie was doing fantastically well. We were called back for lovely opioids for the next couple of days. I assume the vet was slowly lowering the dose and today Bonnie just does not feel well. Its almost like she's gone backwards.

She's obviously in a lot of pain now as she's very reluctant to move out of bed and her back legs are showing signs of damp which I guess means she's not cleaning herself down there. When she does move she's very stumbly and doing the bunny hop sort of thing and her appetite is going down. I've had to go from spoon feeding liquid feed to syringe feeding as shes very reluctant to take that as well. :(

Hoping this is just the opioids wearing off meaning withdrawal symptoms or pain and not something going wrong. Her wound seems fine and the swelling is slowly going down but she's obviously not a very happy piggy right now. We're keeping a close eye on her and will ring the vets if things don't seem to be back on the upswing.
 
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