UTI/IC pain not letting up

[Scooter Pie]

Buttercup is turning 5. She’s been treated the last 16 months for UTIs and possible IC. Right now she’s a week into a 2 week course of antibiotics. For 2 weeks before that she was having pain while urinating, some blood on and off (treated with meloxicam .23mg once a day). When it didn’t resolve we started SMZ TMP (Common brands: Bactrim DS, Sulfatrim, Bactrim). Her urine looked like cranberry juice at that point. It also had a foul smell.

Blood and foul smell is gone. But she is still crying with pain and popping her butt up. A lot.

We are trying to increase her daily glucosamine from 90mg to double that (oxbow joint support). I also do have the feliway cystease capsules. I was attempting to give her a whole capsule twice a day. She HATES it. She’s also tired of the joint support treats and sometimes won’t finish a whole tablet.

Vet is booked until November 19. On the cancellation list, and she could possibly squeeze her in as a drop off sooner.

Eating, drinking, all fine. She’s not fluffed up and hunched over in pain anymore, like she was when we got her back on the antibiotics.

Maybe stones? She’s been on potassium citrate and hydrochlorothiazide for the past year as well. When she squeaks and rears up, it almost sounds like she’s trying to push something out.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. My poor girl.

 

[Wiebke]

Buttercup is turning 5. She’s been treated the last 16 months for UTIs and possible IC. Right now she’s a week into a 2 week course of antibiotics. For 2 weeks before that she was having pain while urinating, some blood on and off (treated with meloxicam .23mg once a day). When it didn’t resolve we started SMZ TMP (Common brands: Bactrim DS, Sulfatrim, Bactrim). Her urine looked like cranberry juice at that point. It also had a foul smell.

Blood and foul smell is gone. But she is still crying with pain and popping her butt up. A lot.

We are trying to increase her daily glucosamine from 90mg to double that (oxbow joint support). I also do have the feliway cystease capsules. I was attempting to give her a whole capsule twice a day. She HATES it. She’s also tired of the joint support treats and sometimes won’t finish a whole tablet.

Vet is booked until November 19. On the cancellation list, and she could possibly squeeze her in as a drop off sooner.

Eating, drinking, all fine. She’s not fluffed up and hunched over in pain anymore, like she was when we got her back on the antibiotics.

Maybe stones? She’s been on potassium citrate and hydrochlorothiazide for the past year as well. When she squeaks and rears up, it almost sounds like she’s trying to push something out.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. My poor girl.

Hi and welcome

An x-ray to check for stones and sludge would be good; also to see whether something is going on in reproductive tract as she is a sow; the two are closely entwined and can impact on each other.

If there is no sign of stones or any problems and you are left dealing with a bad sterile interstitial cystitis, then cartrofen injections have shown in recent research to also work for guinea pigs - it is an arthritis drug with glucosamine; they are not cheap but can help where oral glucosamine is not enough. But your first step is to ensure that there is not another problem with urinary tract.
Bacterial cystitis is in my own experience usually the result of some sort of bladder trauma by stones or sludge/crystal. Sterile (i.e. non-bacterial) interstitial (i.e. recurring) cystitis is a different condition that cannot be cured and only managed because it doesn't react to or can only be temporarily suppressed by antibiotics; it is very often diagnosed by default after all other potential issues have been excluded; generally it is characterised by no or a comparatively low count of bacteria in the urine. Most piggies have some faecal bacteria in the urinary tract due to the tiny scent gland being located just in front of the genitalia, so they pick things up when scent marking.

All the best! It can sometimes be difficult to work out what is the problem; the severity can vary massively.

 

[Free Ranger]

I'm assuming your vet is some distance away... but would there be any chance of a phone call or e-mail to request increasing her pain relief? She may be able to have either a larger dose once a day or a repeat dose every 12 hours (so twice a day) which might be able to help her. If the vet has already seen her and prescribed the stuff they might be happy to increase her dose without seeing her again?

Good luck - I have seen mine in pain like this and it is very hard. I had a little sow who did manage to pass a stone on her own though and she did recover after with ABs and pain relief. Another girl had a big one wedged in her urethra and the vet extracted it with forceps - not nice but much quicker and better than an operation. Both of these stones were identified by x-ray. My vet doesn't use GA but instead swaddles the awake piggy very firmly in a towel so they can't move and gets the pic that way. I hope you can find the source of the problem and make her comfortable in the meantime x

 

[Scooter Pie]

Luckily the vet will email and try to help remotely. She is one of the only vets willing to see GPs...our exotic vet trained her before she decided to go out of practice. I was given 10ml of meloxicam to have on hand. Hopefully she will increase the dose.

There is another vet who only works Mondays and Tuesdays, so is also always booked. I know she could do the xray, hopefully awake like you mentioned.

Thank you for the replies. It's nice to talk it out when you don't know what else to do.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Emergency appointment at 4:30 eastern US time. Such awful painful sounds. But today she enjoyed her bottom being soaked in warm water and absolutely devoured a tablespoon of thick Critical Care!

Oh Id be so happy if this was NOT a stone. I'm sure she will do an ultrasound at least.

 

[Wiebke]

All the best and fingers firmly crossed!
Make sure that you vet also checks the urethra; a stone in sows usually fetches up just before genital opening (you should be able to feel a hardness there when you check and compare with the companion.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Is a stone in the urethra in any way comparable to a cat being blocked? I hope she's willing to try flushing it out if that's the case. This vet has been learning guinea pig care since the previous exotic vet left. And thankfully they are still in touch and will take calls to help her.

I will definitely update later

 

[dhill_cb7]

Hi Scooter. I believe we are relatively close. Which vet do you use?

I have been looking for a reputable vet and haven’t found concrete Cavie vets. I am right outside West Philadelphia in Delco (Delaware County).

I called Avian and Exotic Medical Center in Aston PA. The Dr called me on Saturday about seeing my boys (first check up after rescue) and they are booked out for a bit too.

I hope Buttercup gets better! Please let us know how your piggie makes out!

 

[Scooter Pie]

Update. Wow. She’s not in pain at the moment. Whacked out on buprenorphine. They gave her an injection at the visit and I'm to go back for another in the morning if I think it helped. If she’s still with us

They took an xray which did not show stones. There was a large pocket of gas. An exotic specialist is going to look at it. Her temp was low. Her weight is down despite eating normally. Vet said she was very worried several times. That there’s probably something wrong that they can’t fix. Definite pain in the lower middle. Bladder, uterus, that area.

She’s been in a corner on a pillow under a tent, just staring, looking frozen. I went to see how much she’d pooped and she darted out of the corner, to another corner, then to another at top speed and now just froze there. Her cage. mate investigated, and she’s just frozen.

Guys....I feel like this could be the end. I can’t see her eating tonight in this state. I just gave her the antibiotics and she barely even licked it. She had a tablespoon of critical care and a medium cucumber chunk about 4 hours ago. I hope I can get her to swallow the critical care.

Anyway....I will update in the morning

 

[Qualcast&Flymo]

Sending hugs, and healing vibes for Buttercup

 

[Xmolxlie]

Update. Wow. She’s not in pain at the moment. Whacked out on buprenorphine. They gave her an injection at the visit and I'm to go back for another in the morning if I think it helped. If she’s still with us

They took an xray which did not show stones. There was a large pocket of gas. An exotic specialist is going to look at it. Her temp was low. Her weight is down despite eating normally. Vet said she was very worried several times. That there’s probably something wrong that they can’t fix. Definite pain in the lower middle. Bladder, uterus, that area.

She’s been in a corner on a pillow under a tent, just staring, looking frozen. I went to see how much she’d pooped and she darted out of the corner, to another corner, then to another at top speed and now just froze there. Her cage. mate investigated, and she’s just frozen.

Guys....I feel like this could be the end. I can’t see her eating tonight in this state. I just gave her the antibiotics and she barely even licked it. She had a tablespoon of critical care and a medium cucumber chunk about 4 hours ago. I hope I can get her to swallow the critical care.

Anyway....I will update in the morning

Huge hugs and lots of love for your piggie. Unfortunately from what you’ve described it could be kidney failure, I went through that with my boy Foxy a month or two ago and it was awful, (thankfully he passed relatively soon after it got bad so he wasn’t in too much pain and didn’t suffer too much but it was devastating to watch and I miss him a lot), big hugs to you, and he had a lot of similar symptoms to your piggle. Definitely try syringe feeding critical care, and water to make sure she’s hydrated. Lots and lots of hugs and healing vibes for Buttercup, I really hope she’s okay, please keep us updated! My vets also give me cystophan for bloody urine problems which has seemed to help one of my piggies massively!

 

[Scooter Pie]

Foxy Thank you for sharing. How did they diagnose it? They didn’t do bloodwork tonight.

Well, I'm happy right now because she ate 3 cucumber slices on her own. I think she’s coming down from the opioid a bit. Going to mix up some critical care now.

Earlier today I got two videos of Buttercup and her cage mate. One of them reacting to hearing me in the kitchen, and one of her highly annoying crazed bar biting as she waits for her treat. Got her taking a carrot and running to a hidey with it

Thank you all for the support.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Hi Scooter. I believe we are relatively close. Which vet do you use?

I have been looking for a reputable vet and haven’t found concrete Cavie vets. I am right outside West Philadelphia in Delco (Delaware County).

I called Avian and Exotic Medical Center in Aston PA. The Dr called me on Saturday about seeing my boys (first check up after rescue) and they are booked out for a bit too.

I hope Buttercup gets better! Please let us know how your piggie makes out!

You’re in Philly! I grew up in the Northeast and my parents still live there. You probably have a lot more options down there. The place I go is Wright veterinary medical center in Bethlehem. And they don’t really have an exotic vet, but one who was willing to be trained on piggies before their exotic vet left. In my area there are hardly any vets willing to see piggies!

 

[Xmolxlie]

Foxy Thank you for sharing. How did they diagnose it? They didn’t do bloodwork tonight.

Well, I'm happy right now because she ate 3 cucumber slices on her own. I think she’s coming down from the opioid a bit. Going to mix up some critical care now.

Earlier today I got two videos of Buttercup and her cage mate. One of them reacting to hearing me in the kitchen, and one of her highly annoying crazed bar biting as she waits for her treat. Got her taking a carrot and running to a hidey with it

Thank you all for the support.

Thank you, he was 4 and a half and had lived a good life, and was always a happy and active pig, these things happen sometimes and all we can do is give them the best life He slept on my chest for about 8 hours and then before he passed I put him back in his cage so he could be with his wifey Kovu while he passed.

So Foxy’s diagnosis story is kindaaa long but I’ll try my best shorten it. June? this year I noticed a hell of a lot of blood in the cage, emergency trip to my vet (didn’t know guinea pigs had specialist vets at that point - I’d never needed to take them to the vets prior), they did scans and urine tests etc on both pigs but they were kinda useless about treatment options for him. Found a pig vet via this forum, took them to her and she looked at the ultrasound they’d done and said she could see something smallish around the bladder but didn’t look like bladder stones, but thought it was a uti after a pee test and gave him some meds for it. At the beginning of September, I noticed there was blood and also he wasn’t eating much (I’d already started critical care) so took him to the vets again. This time his blood level in his pee was completely off the charts, as well as having proteins etc in his pee that shouldn’t be in there. At that point she pretty much knew, and gave me meds etc and said when he stopped being able to take the critical care that I might need to have him put to sleep. Thankfully it didn’t come to that. Sorry for the long complicated story but I feel like the history is relevant as it could’ve easily been a kidney failure decline over a few months, rather than instantly - the vet said that guinea pigs can generally live with anything above a certain percentage of kidney function (I can’t quite remember the figure) but as soon as it drops below that is when the symptoms become persistent and noticeable. But the main test aside from the previous scans etc was a simple dip pee test - there didn’t seem like any blood to the naked eye but the second she dipped it it was off the charts. No blood work was done for Foxy as she was certain what it would come back as, so it seemed fairly pointless, and prior to that there was no obvious need for it.

Sorry for the ramble but wanted to give you as much info as I know!

Yay! I’m so glad she seems to be picking up and is eating treats! That’s huge progress! I know how hard it can be with sick animals, but try to stay optimistic! She sounds like she’s doing better and on the mend, hopefully it’s just a tricky uti and not anything more sinister something someone said to me when foxy was ill is just to treasure every day like it’s your last, but also be hopeful for their future and keep trying everything you can enjoy the great times you still have left with her, and hopefully there’s also many many more to come

 

[Scooter Pie]

Thank you for sharing his story

Well, since I last posted, she ate a whole serving of critical care off my finger.

Then the best thing. Every night around 10pm, my husband comes into the room for "cookie time" and he gives the pigs their vitamin C tablet. Well, she came out of the corner for the first time since we got home and wheeked for him!

That was so special. Whatever happens tomorrow, we had some hopeful moments tonight

 

[Xmolxlie]

Thank you for sharing his story

Well, since I last posted, she ate a whole serving of critical care off my finger.

Then the best thing. Every night around 10pm, my husband comes into the room for "cookie time" and he gives the pigs their vitamin C tablet. Well, she came out of the corner for the first time since we got home and wheeked for him!

That was so special. Whatever happens tomorrow, we had some hopeful moments tonight

I’m so glad to hear this guinea pig wheeks are the best, and definitely an indicator that things are on the up. Everything crossed for you lovely

 

[Scooter Pie]

Good morning! She's still here

I was up at 3am and gave her a serving of critical care and some cucumber. Now she's eating on her own and was even rumblestrutting at her cage mate a little

This morning I'm supposed to take her back for another buprenorphine injection if I thought it helped. I hate to see her get so out of it again, but just now I thought I heard her make a painful sound again.

They were going to have to order an oral version for me. I feel like we may be in a hospice type situation now.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Update.

Buttercup has severe bloat now. Her xray Wednesday showed a lot of gas. The bupenorphine, while helping with the pain, is slowing her system down.

Xray didn't show a blockage (though not 100% ruled out) and it did show some small bladder stones.

I still think she had a stone in the urethra. The pain caused her to start chewing on her wooden bridge the night before and day of her xray appointment. Vet thinks
it may have caused her to swallow air.

I don't know if she's pooping at all. I hear gassy sounds. I just soaked her lower half in warm water, and now we're sitting with a heating pad, and I'm gently massaging her.

Bupenorphine at 11:30am US eastern. The whole family is not on board with euthanasia.

If she could just start passing some stool and gas. But her breathing seems to be involved now too.

 

[VickiA]

I’m so sorry that she’s so poorly. Severe bloat can be very difficult to deal with. Do you have any gut motility drugs to give her? Otherwise, keeping her warm, and massaging her abdomen slowly and gently to help the gas pass is about all you can do, together with syringe feeding her.

 

[Wiebke]

Update. Wow. She’s not in pain at the moment. Whacked out on buprenorphine. They gave her an injection at the visit and I'm to go back for another in the morning if I think it helped. If she’s still with us

They took an xray which did not show stones. There was a large pocket of gas. An exotic specialist is going to look at it. Her temp was low. Her weight is down despite eating normally. Vet said she was very worried several times. That there’s probably something wrong that they can’t fix. Definite pain in the lower middle. Bladder, uterus, that area.

She’s been in a corner on a pillow under a tent, just staring, looking frozen. I went to see how much she’d pooped and she darted out of the corner, to another corner, then to another at top speed and now just froze there. Her cage. mate investigated, and she’s just frozen.

Guys....I feel like this could be the end. I can’t see her eating tonight in this state. I just gave her the antibiotics and she barely even licked it. She had a tablespoon of critical care and a medium cucumber chunk about 4 hours ago. I hope I can get her to swallow the critical care.

Anyway....I will update in the morning

Fingers very firmly crossed.

It sounds like the gassing could be secondary. A low body temperature in piggies is always very worrying. I am very sorry that the news is not all that good.

PS: A stone anywhere from the kidneys (which is where they start) down to the anus would have shown up on an x-ray. my post on that subject did unfortunately cross with your update.

 

[Scooter Pie]

I’m so sorry that she’s so poorly. Severe bloat can be very difficult to deal with. Do you have any gut motility drugs to give her? Otherwise, keeping her warm, and massaging her abdomen slowly and gently to help the gas pass is about all you can do, together with syringe feeding her.

The vet suggested simethicone drops for the gas, so I started that.

I'm going to sit with her and massage her sides and belly, on a low heating pad now.

She's making sounds when breathing

We are planning pain meds for the weekend. And just hoping.....something has to give.

She is eating critical care, thick enough for me to scoop up and she's taking it from my hand.

It's just...NO poop has come out since I put her back in her freshly cleaned cage 5 hours ago. And if there've been any the past 2 days, it's very few.

 

[Scooter Pie]

Fingers very firmly crossed.

It sounds like the gassing could be secondary. A low body temperature in piggies is always very worrying. I am very sorry that the news is not all that good.

PS: A stone anywhere from the kidneys (which is where they start) down to the anus would have shown up on an x-ray. my post on that subject did unfortunately cross with your update.

By some miracle, the bloat seems to have passed. The simethicone really worked and she's pooping again, looking normal almost.

Ive been expecting her to die. This morning she's acting almost totally normal..but I still did see her rear up her butt and make a painful sound a few times already.

She's going in at 1:45 for another bupenorphine, and they may send me home with some to give here by injection...Dr emailed me saying the nurse could show me how to do it.

So in short, she's feeling much better but the original issue isn't gone.

 

[weepweeps]

You really are doing everything you can for this gorgeous piggy. I’m pleased she seems to have perked up. Really hoping the original issues resolve soon too.

 

[Wiebke]

By some miracle, the bloat seems to have passed. The simethicone really worked and she's pooping again, looking normal almost.

Ive been expecting her to die. This morning she's acting almost totally normal..but I still did see her rear up her butt and make a painful sound a few times already.

She's going in at 1:45 for another bupenorphine, and they may send me home with some to give here by injection...Dr emailed me saying the nurse could show me how to do it.

So in short, she's feeling much better but the original issue isn't gone.

That is good news!

I hope that you can find out what is causing the symptoms. Sometimes, it can be more in the way of a detective story when all the easy causes have been eliminated.

 

[Scooter Pie]

I was trained on giving the bupenorphine by injection today. I have 10 doses to use as needed. I'm going to hold off on giving it unless she really needs it. She is still on meloxicam. She went 26 hours between bupenorphine injections and didn't seem to return to anywhere near the level of pain she was experiencing in the past 2 days.

Buttercup is doing really well, but now I discovered has a pretty sore pad on a back foot. Started epsom salt soaks and silver sulfadiazine cream. She seemed to be limping and I thought it was a result of the bloat.

I was just reading some previous threads about the simethicone and the warnings about it. She's had two doses yesterday and one today. She still seems a little puffy but I will probably hold off on giving her any more, since she's pooping well now.

Still will do belly massages on the heating pad during her foot soaks. I think the simethicone saved her life yesterday. Maybe that combined with the massage kept it from forming a large bubble. But I'm not in a rush to give her any more now that Ive read more!

 

[Scooter Pie]

Eating and pooping well. I gave her first injection this morning and we both survived (my husband couldn't watch)

She's still having straining and pain which the meds help with very much.

I think it's making her drool (teeth are fine). Her chin and dewlap are damp and sticky, trying to clean it and towel dry seems to do nothing.

Sore foot a little swollen but not dramatically. I hold her foot up off my lap in the air for a good 10 minutes after the soaks to let the cream set before she walks on it again.

I'm tired. I wonder how long this all is going to go on

 

[weepweeps]

You must be exhausted. You are doing fab. Not sure I could inject a piggy! Glad she’s eating and pooping well.

 

[Scooter Pie]

You must be exhausted. You are doing fab. Not sure I could inject a piggy! Glad she’s eating and pooping well.

Thank you It's nice to hear encouragement.
I got really good training from the vet nurse (we used to call them vet techs 20 years ago, I'm old, lol). The technique was "tent and dent" which basically involves pinching the loose skin on the upper back and injecting almost parallel to their body, between where your fingers are pinching.

I could feel the liquid swell up under her skin so it was the right spot.

Yeah not fun but so worth it to have her feel better!

 

[Scooter Pie]

It's over

After an amazing weekend of her bouncing back from the bloat, she declined quickly this afternoon and passed peacefully with her cage mate by her side.

Thank you for listening to me ramble on about all the details of her care.

 

[weepweeps]

Bless her. I’m so sorry Buttercup didn’t make it. You tried your absolute best. She’s at peace and pain free now. Take care.