• Discussions taking place within this forum are intended for the purpose of assisting you in discussing options with your vet. Any other use of advice given here is done so at your risk, is solely your responsibility and not that of this forum or its owner. Before posting it is your responsibility you abide by this Statement

Uti/vets Issues

Status
Not open for further replies.
Heather10

Heather10

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Jan 7, 2014
Messages
27
Reaction score
15
Points
125
Location
Preston UK
I've had a long saga with my boar Oz of recurring UTIs. I'm looking for peoples thoughts or suggestions as I'm not sure of the best action to take now.

I think I should explain a little about his history before explaining my current woes. He first has a urinary infection about three years ago. I took him straight to the vets of course, and he was prescribed metacam and an antibiotic (which I don't recall the name of now). This treatment was for a week and seemed to work but then a week later it happened again. My vets recommended having an x-ray to check for stones in his bladder as it was possible it wasn't an infection after all. He had an x-ray that showed nothing, so they recommended an ultrasound in case of tumors or growths - which again showed nothing.

My vet was perplexed and ended up speaking to a guinea pig specialist she knew (well, this is what she called him, I have no idea who he was or where he was based) and he recommended giving him a much stronger dose of metacam (for its anti-inflammatory properties) and a longer period of time on an antibiotic (marbocyl). This worked, and he was fine for about 6 months. Now, he tends to flare up with an infection every 6/8 months - my original vet has left the practice, but they have always given me the same dosage and been happy that it works for him.

Then on Monday he looked a little unhappy (I can normally tell when he is going to start with these things) and I booked him in at the vets (sure enough he had blood in his urine by the morning). I saw a vet I have never seen before, she checked him over quite quickly and said that she suggested the 'normal' treatment, looked at his history and seemed happy to proceed like usual. She did note that he was a little uncomfortable round his bladder and said that if he didn't improve after a week that I should bring him back and they might consider x-ray to check for other problems.
I agreed with all this, and didn't have any issues until I get to the counter and she had prescribed him with the original and much weaker dosage of drugs from when he first had the problems. This dosage didn't work for him - and ended up with the problems recurring and him being sedated for unnecessary x-rays and an ultrasound.
I questioned why she was changing the dosage - and she said that he was 'only little' and what she has prescribed was more than enough. She made me feel really stupid, and I stumbled over my words and thought maybe I remembered the dosage wrong. When I checked at home I was very annoyed at myself for not insisting further.

Now I don't know what to do. I am meant to take him back in 4 days - but I don't really want to see the same vet. Obviously, I don't want my boy to suffer, and I will take him in - but I'm worried that they will suggest sedation and x-ray when really a stronger course of medication could clear up his problem. What doesn't help is that he also had a stomach upset over Christmas and lost 100g. He was not eating or drinking for a few days and is still recovering from that, his weight is back up by 50g and he's pigging out on everything in sight/drinking fine now - I feel extra worried about him being sedated for anything. They tried to not sedate him the first time I had x-rays but he wriggled about so much they had to do it again with sedation.

I'm also wondering if anyone has experience changing from one vets to another and if you can request a copy of their medical history? I had always been so happy at the practice I use, but right now I'm upset at the idea of taking him back there at all. My local piggy friends have recommended a few places they use so I'm hoping to try him somewhere new - just doing so mid-treatment worries me too.

Sorry this is super long. I'm in a proper tiz over it all and could use some different perspectives.

Edit - I have also called the vets and asked them to check over the medication prescribed. I'm waiting for a call back about it.
 
Last edited:
@Jerrybelly has experience with bladder pigs and may be able to give you some advice.

Some piggies like hers and my Angus and many others will have chronic bladder problems for which they need regular treatment to prevent problems.

As for changing vets you are always within your rights to ask for another opinion on anything and you should also be able to ask for records to be transferred although I am not sure they have to agree to that? Try our vet locator at the top of the page for recommendations too. It's important to have a good vet who is experienced with guinea pigs as they are classed as 'exotics'. Most regular vets don't see enough of them to gain a lot of experience especially with complex problems and are reluctant to use some drugs which are not usually licensed for use in piggies that can be very helpful.

Good luck finding a good vet and a solution to your lads troubles.
 
There are actually several forms of cystitis, which are usually lumped together. They range from the classic urine infection (UTI) to inflammation of the bladder walls. If you are speaking of a regularly recurring infection, you are dealing with interstitial cystitis, which is something that needs more managing the symptoms than actually being able to heal it. Some inflammatory forms don't react much to an antibiotic like septrin, but respond better to metacam. With a piggy with a history of cystitis, it is always good to check for bladder stones or sludge, just to be on the safe side.

Glucosamine (cystaid, a food supplement for cats) can help to protect the bladder walls. A low calcium diet may also help.

http://www.guinealynx.info/uti.html
http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/...or-piggies-an-option-to-be-considered.105930/
 
As Merrypip has said, you are well within your rights to change vets. I have done this myself because I was unhappy with the diagnosis and medication that Jerry (my own bladder piggy) received. I am now much happier, and really pleased that I made the decision to change.

Have you tried our 'vet locator' tool at the top of the page to try to find an alternative in your area? The process of changing is simple. I registered my piggy with the new vets and made an appointment to take him in. I explained to the new vet Jerry's medical history and that I wanted a second opinion. The new vet will then contact the old vet (or rather the receptionists will sort it) straight away and all medical details will be faxed across immediately. This was all done during my appointment, and allowed the new vet to act accordingly.

Out of interest, what is your 'usual' Metacam dosage, and what has the vet now recommended? Jerry takes a daily dose of between 0.2ml and 0.4ml, depending on how he's doing. He has been taking it for two years, and I really swear by it - not just as a painkiller, but as an anti-inflammatory. It really helps stop the gritty calcium sludge from irritating the bladder walls.

Aside from this, glucosamine (in the form of Cystaid/Cystease/Cystophan) and a low-calcium diet can help, providing that infection and stones have been ruled out.
 
Thank you all for your replies.

Hmm, so the vet thought it was imflammation (I guess it would be interstitial cystitis) after finding no sludge or stones in the x-rays. They always just treat it like a one-off thing that he is susceptible to, not managing an on going problem.

I've tried the vets locator - nothing comes up that I can get to without finding someone willing to give me a lift. If all else fails I will be doing that though! Hopefully one of the local recommendations will work out.

Oz has only ever been on metacam when a flare up has happened - I didn't know it was possible to use it long term? Is that more preventative, or are we talking different kinds of bladder issues?

He was originally given 0.5ml of cat metacam which is a strength 0.5mg/ml, but then he was upped to 1ml of the dog version which is 1.5mg/ml, but this was only ever given short term to reduce the swelling. My original vet told me it sounded crazy to her as it seemed a very high amount (what she would normally give to a medium dog) but that because guinea pigs can metabolize it so quickly she had been advised to give that much. We split into two doses and gave him 0.5ml twice a day. So he usually is given 1.5mg a day, but right now he is on 0.25mg a day.

I've been having a poke around online and seeing some pigs are given similar doses and some given far less. I don't know what to think now - maybe the new vet is right he needs lower, but he never had any adverse effects from it - and he's had in those doses about 6 times now over the last three years.

Good to know about the transferring of records. Hopefully my surgery will do that. I definitely want to get a second opinion - I don't know what's what anymore.
 
1ml of dog metacam is massive dose for a piggy. I have only even given 0.12-0.15ml for a piggy weighing 1350g! I think you were right to query this as it can cause unwanted side effects in large doses particularly.

You can use it long term in small doses. Like any pain killer it is best to use the lowest effective dose, so the lowest does to get the relief needed. It can have effects on kidneys long term but it is a balancing act compared to pain and quality of life as with any medication.

Like someone else mentioned, low calcium diet can help reduce problems and I have Angus on Cystease (Glucosamine) to help keep him comfy. He has intermittent episodes of squeaky wees but with no other obvious signs of infection and various rounds of antibiotics haven't helped.
 
Jerry has problems absorbing calcium. Rather than it passing out in the urine as it should do, it gathers in the bladder. As the calcium is quite gritty, it makes the bladder inflammed and quite sore. Every couple of weeks he will pass blood-stained wee for a day or two, and when this happens I increase his Metacam dose appropriately. The Metacam is partly preventative, in the sense that it helps minimise inflammation, but also quite necessary for him. I have tried several times over the past few years to stop the Metacam altogether, and the blood returns within a day or two without fail.

1ml of dog Metacam does sound like an exceptionally high dose. As it is based on the weight of the piggy, is Oz quite a large boy? I can give Jerry 0.4ml twice a day if I absolutely need to (he weighs just over 1kg), but I have never given this high amount. Piggies do have very fast metabolisms, but my vet said that if I do ever need to give the total of 0.8ml in a day then this should not be for any longer than 3-4 days due to the effects on the kidneys. Fortunately, Jerry manages well with 0.2ml once a day.
 
Last edited:
Metacam doses have been going up over the last few years. I would only give it during acute phases unless told so by a good vet, as long term use has an impact on the kidneys and can shorten the life span.

I use metacam on an at need basis with my 5 year old Cariad, who has an off/on calcium absorption problem and has ended up with an interstitial cystitis due to bladder damage after a big stone and a sludge problem afterwards.
 
He's not very big I don't think, at the moment he is 950g, but is normally just over 1kg.

He's only ever had that dose for a max of three days and he doesn't seem to have suffered any side effects, but then you never know if it's doing long-term damage that's not being seen yet. :/ After reading about your doses I am definitely going to see a different vet. When he has gained all his weight back from the stomach upset I will ask for an x-ray too, just to check there is nothing else going on.
I'm also going to adjust his feeding, as some of his favourite veggies seem to have lots of calcium content.

Thank you so much all for taking the time to respond to me. I've been very upset by it all the last few days, and knowing that the lower dosage is probably better has really calmed me down.
 
It's interesting about calcium absorption. Did you check for this by testing urine? I'd like to be able to know if it was this and more a case of managing his symptoms than him being prescribed lots of antibiotics every time he pees blood.
 
I have at least 2 pigs with Interstitial cystitis and they are on vegan Glucosamine every day with Metacam as and when needed. They are also on a special diet which is low in both calcium and protein. A friend of mine has done a lot of research on Interstitial cystitis and it's causes, diet etc so let me know if you need any information. She is not a vet but runs a piggy clinic in conjunction with a vet. She recently dealt with a pig with a very bad case of IC who passed blood clots after being given cranberry juice.
 
Heather10 said:
It's interesting about calcium absorption. Did you check for this by testing urine? I'd like to be able to know if it was this and more a case of managing his symptoms than him being prescribed lots of antibiotics every time he pees blood.
Click to expand...

If he is having a bad few days and passing blood, then his urine is tested to rule out a UTI. I know about the calcium because it showed up in an ultrasound scan. Jerry had his bladder flushed out in May 2012 to try to solve the problem. It helped, but the calcium continues to build back up over time. We manage his symptoms now with his diet and medication. Jerry, however, is completely oblivious to my constant worry and at 4 and a half years old continues to popcorn around his cage like a loony!
 
Has he ever had a urine test in this time - specifically for culture? My thoughts are also cystitis with this pattern of symptoms too.
 
He had a urine test when this started - but I can't rememeber what they tested for exactly, just that I got told they didn't find a problem. I will check with the vets what the results were for.

Due to his x-ray and ultrasounds showing no stones/sludge/blockage and his responding to treatment I always thought it was more an infection type thing.
 
Bit of an update. I tried a new vets today (Hill Crest Animal Hospital in Chorley) - and I could have cried I was so happy. They were absolutely wonderful with him (and me!).

When I rang to see about making an appointment, the receptionist warned me that they weren't exotic specialists, but that they do see a lot of guinea pigs and would do everything they could. She gave me the number for the exotics place in Manchester and suggested I call them. I knew Oz needed a follow up and I desperately wanted to get a second opinion on his meds so I asked to book in anyway as it would take a bit more planning to get him over to Manchester.

The vet went over every medication he's had. She spent nearly 40 minutes talking through the pattern of his infections, his xrays, scans, urine culture, diet...

She spent a while working out the correct dosage of metacam for him. She said that guinea pigs kind of break from the suggested dosages for cats and dogs as they metabolise the stuff so quickly and you can give them dosages that sound very high. That being said, she did say that 1ml (of dog metacam at 1.5mg/ml) was a little high for Oz at the moment. She recommended him a dosage of between 0.3ml and 0.9ml based n his current weight of 900g. She said the dosage he was prescribed last week of 0.5ml (at 0.5mg/ml) was little more than a therapeutic dose, and wouldn't have been doing much to alleviate his discomfort and reduce the swelling around his bladder - this confirmed what I thought from watching his behavior this week.

She said he could have the highest dose for about 3 or 4 days to reduce his discomfort and then recommends me giving him a 0.3ml dose for a couple more days if he's still suffering from pain while urinating. We're also keeping him on marbocyl for another week to make sure we get rid of any infection.

I also got some stuff to collect urine in, as she said next time the infection shows up she'd like to do a urine culture to see which antibiotics will be most effective - but that this wasn't possible now as he was half way through a course already.

She also mentioned that she'd seen some foods that might help, as they were designed to guard against UTI's, but that she'd look into them and call me if she thought they would be effective and weren't just a marketing gimmick.

I feel like a weight is lifted off my shoulders! Oz has been chirpier already, and started wheeking to me when I was walking by before - I haven't heard his little voice for so long.

I forgot to ask about Glucosamine, but I have to give her a call with his progress in a couple of weeks so I'll mention it then.
 
That sounds promising and is very interesting about the Metacam dosing. Glad he seems brighter already.
 
Hi All,

I'm looking for some help as I feel like my vets have no idea what they are talking about.

I noticed last Thursday that my piggy Ben (6 1/2 yrs old) has become impacted, I did a bit of research on this and noticed that it is quite common in older pigs and especially males. I have cleaned him out but thought it would be best just to have him checked over by our vet. (he was still eating and drinking normally at this point)

So Saturday morning I go to the vets with Ben and he firstly looked at me like I had two heads when I mentioned impaction being common in guinea pigs and he has no idea what it was and basically skirted over that issues which I had brought him in for, he then noticed bens fur around him bum was stained yellow from urine (I'm 99% sure this was due to ben having guinea pig cushions in his run which he would just wee and lay in.... my pig has always been quite lazy, however we had since been removed them from him cage and wet fur has not been a problem since. The Vet took the staining as a sign that ben could have a UTI and proscribed antibiotics for the UIT ( as a precaution because there was no other signs of infection) and pain medication for the impaction, even though he does not know what this is. I would like to also point out he did not know guinea pigs get B vitamins from their droppings (little worrying)

Ben started his medication on Sunday, by yesterday morning I noticed he was a little off his food, but when offered him his fave veggies and he did eat those so I thought maybe I was panicking. This morning I have got up and ben has had diarrhea, I have stopped with his medication and called the vet who also said to stop, he had an appointment with the Vet at 4PM today and I'm a little worried the vet is going to prescribe something that may make him worse!

any advice would be much appreciated.
 
have you considered going to ashleigh vets in whalley range manchester? they're excellent exotics vets.

i actually don't see an issue with the high metacam doses. alot of the very good exotics vets use higher doses as alot more is known about them now. the warning that is given is due to the group of medications that metacam belongs to, rather than for the metacam itself.

ashleigh vets are known for using higher doses, or what they consider normal doses, and i have had no issues with these. better to get a hold of things quickly and work down, rather than non-exotics vets who start low and build up, by which time things could have gotten worse. others may not agree, but i would rather go with an exotics vets recommendations than a non exotics recommendations. of course, it's personal preference. just thought that might reassure you on the doses anyway.

anyway, i hope it all works out ok for your piggy.
 
biscandmatt said:
have you considered going to ashleigh vets in whalley range manchester? they're excellent exotics vets.

i actually don't see an issue with the high metacam doses. alot of the very good exotics vets use higher doses as alot more is known about them now. the warning that is given is due to the group of medications that metacam belongs to, rather than for the metacam itself.

ashleigh vets are known for using higher doses, or what they consider normal doses, and i have had no issues with these. better to get a hold of things quickly and work down, rather than non-exotics vets who start low and build up, by which time things could have gotten worse. others may not agree, but i would rather go with an exotics vets recommendations than a non exotics recommendations. of course, it's personal preference. just thought that might reassure you on the doses anyway.

anyway, i hope it all works out ok for your piggy.
Click to expand...

I have their number - the vets I went to yesterday actually recommended them to me and gave me the contact info. I would have trouble getting him there but I am going to give them a call if he has more problems. I was glad that the vet I saw seemed very clued up on pigs. She even talked about things like making poop-soup if his stomach goes bad again and things that I never heard of before reading this forum!

Thanks, it is reassuring :nod:
 
Heather10 said:
I have their number - the vets I went to yesterday actually recommended them to me and gave me the contact info. I would have trouble getting him there but I am going to give them a call if he has more problems. I was glad that the vet I saw seemed very clued up on pigs. She even talked about things like making poop-soup if his stomach goes bad again and things that I never heard of before reading this forum!

Thanks, it is reassuring :nod:
Click to expand...

we travel quite a bit to get to ashleigh vets aswell but it is well worth it. we see aidan normally and he is excellent. the others are nice aswell but i just feel like my pets are in the very best hands with aidan. x
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top