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What are Hormone Injections called?

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It's great you've got Peggy at home now and she's managing to eat. Lots of TLC with her mum will help her feel better.

Hope she continues to improve, Ginny and Saffy send her healing wheeks x>>

Gemma, Ginny and Saffy
 
It's great that shes home :) Hopefully the eating will pick up. The most important thing is to get an almost constant flow of fibre going in (and then out again!).
 
Hi

Thanks so much for the messages. The syringe feed went really well. I was trying to give her critical care before and thought I'd try the stuff they'd given me (recovery) as they told me she took it well whereas I'd had to fight to get critical care in.

She actually wanted it and practically opened her mouth. I got 5ml into her without any trouble! She wouldn't take any tit-bits afterwards but she may have been full.

I know critical care comes more highly recommended than recovery but it seems Peggy would disagree.

I'm going to give her an hour for the recovery to go through and then try tit-bits again.

She's still sitting facing the corner and not moving around.

I'm not sure what pain meds she's on at the moment but if we decide to keep her at home, I'll have to go and pick them up along with anti-biotics and I might ask about fibreplex. I'll let you know the dosage when I get it. They had implied on the phone, that the pain meds had been raised significantly since we got her back the first time.

Many, many thanks, Louise xx
 
Glad to hear she is eating and that you've had her back home. Sending healing vibes to Peggy x
 
louise_stocker said:
Hi

Thanks so much for the messages. The syringe feed went really well. I was trying to give her critical care before and thought I'd try the stuff they'd given me (recovery) as they told me she took it well whereas I'd had to fight to get critical care in.

She actually wanted it and practically opened her mouth. I got 5ml into her without any trouble! She wouldn't take any tit-bits afterwards but she may have been full.

I know critical care comes more highly recommended than recovery but it seems Peggy would disagree.

I'm going to give her an hour for the recovery to go through and then try tit-bits again.

She's still sitting facing the corner and not moving around.

I'm not sure what pain meds she's on at the moment but if we decide to keep her at home, I'll have to go and pick them up along with anti-biotics and I might ask about fibreplex. I'll let you know the dosage when I get it. They had implied on the phone, that the pain meds had been raised significantly since we got her back the first time.

Many, many thanks, Louise xx
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Id recommend the fibreplex alongside antibiotics :)
 
Hi
I've just spoken to the vets after another reasonably successful feed of tit-bits (2 dandelions, several pieces of hay and 2 pieces of parsley).

They want her to stay here and for me to pick up some baytril which is fine, however:

1. they don't want to give me any more recovery and told me to stop syringe feeding her as she's eating on her own - she's only having pretty small amounts though but obviously this might be because she's full.

2. they won't give me any pain medication for her and told me to just use baytil. If she stops eating again I need to take her back but surely being on pain meds will help her eat?

3. they're not too keen on giving me fibreplex either?

Would really appreciate your input
Thanks, Louise xx
 
If she isn't eating very much for herself it is essential to continue with some syringe food to top her up. Offer food she can eat herself first, but then give the syringe food after.

You can buy probiotic from Pets at Home and I would mix it in with the syringe food.

If she is eating very little you run the risk of her bowel becoming very gassy and you don't want another problem on top of what she is already fighting, bless her. It's important she stays strong.

I find it so worrying how vets can give such bad advice. I am just so grateful that I have a fantastic vet. I just wish everyone was as lucky as I am.
 
louise_stocker said:
Hi
I've just spoken to the vets after another reasonably successful feed of tit-bits (2 dandelions, several pieces of hay and 2 pieces of parsley).

They want her to stay here and for me to pick up some baytril which is fine, however:

1. they don't want to give me any more recovery and told me to stop syringe feeding her as she's eating on her own - she's only having pretty small amounts though but obviously this might be because she's full.

2. they won't give me any pain medication for her and told me to just use baytil. If she stops eating again I need to take her back but surely being on pain meds will help her eat?

3. they're not too keen on giving me fibreplex either?

Would really appreciate your input
Thanks, Louise xx
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Cameo is doing better - she's pooing again now so thats good, they're going to keep her in over night to syringe feed her and continue her medication so that I don't have to be up all night again!

As for your questions above...

1 - Put your foot down - ask for some more - she's not eating anywhere near enough to sustain her. My vets are working with Cameo on the basis that a 1kg pig needs 120mls of critical care in a 24 hour period, so Cameo (being 1.03kg this morning!) is having at least 10mls every 2 hours as a minimum. She should be syringe fed until she's eating totally normally on her own. Obviously you can drop back on the feedings as she increases eating by herself. Was it a vet or a receptionist you spoke to about this?

2 - Depends on the medication - they're probably using either metacam (lasts 24 hours) or vetergesic (lasts 12 hours), so if you get home and after 4 hours she's not eating, she's still quite well dosed up. Pain meds can affect the gut (especially metacam, much like NSAIDs can in humans). If you're concerned she's in pain even though she's eating, you can book an appointment to see the vet to ask for another shot of pain relief. Since her spay, Cameo has only had injectable pain relief, although saying that, she's only been home one night rolleyes

3 - Again, who did you speak to about this?! Vet, nurse or receptionist? Fibreplex isn't a prescription medication, so you can buy it over the counter. As she's on baytril, they should be the ones trying to convince you to buy this. I ask who you spoke to, as a receptionist might not know the benefits of fibreplex, as they generally don't get involved with that kind of thing, and therefore think you're asking for medications that the vet hasn't prescribed, hence why they didn't sound too keen. I on the other hand, am a super duper receptionist, and know this stuff ;)
 
Well it's great that she's still attempting to eat a few bits herself but I have to say that the advice given by the Vets doesn't really sound very helpful.

Really hope you can get the basic provisions you need to keep her making the good progress she's started x
 
Well... thanks so much for advice. Had a bit of a tough time at the vets. I don't think they're used to people questioning what they say. Saying that, I was talking to a nurse (nothing against nurses here by the way). They didn't think there was a need to see a vet even though I asked to speak to him. It took a long time to establish that Peggy had been given 2 types of pain meds by injection at 11am. Therefore, when she looked 'off it' this afternoon I don't think she can have been in pain.

They would not let me bring any pain relief back with me (I do have a small amount of metacam at home). They told me they didn't want her to have metcam by liquid because of gastric ulcers as she wasn't eating much. They also told me not to syringe feed her as she won't then eat on her own. I said she needed a syringe as she wasn't eating much on her own so she said if she's not eating she needs to come back in. I tried to explain that she is taking small amounts by herself which she wasn't in the hospital and they said "well is she eating or isn't she?" Went round in circles for some time. Got quite upset and frustrated really.

Anyway, she's at home and I've promised to take her back if she goes downhill (with a friend this time). She's just had a good feed on her own just now and took quite a bit of hay and bits of veg so I haven't syringe fed her again. I definitely will though if I'm not happy with what she's eaten. I've got a bit to keep me going and will buy it online if necessary.

She will only eat when wrapped in a towel on my knee though. If I hand her something in the cage she just walks off.

I did manage to get them to give me fibreplex so she'll get that shortly (are you meant to give it separately from the antibiotic - I seem to remember reading somewhere that to give it a few hours before or after baytril?)

She's currently snoozing in her cozy cup which is an improvement on sitting with her head in the corner.

Phew... a pretty rough day but I think we've made progress since yesterday.

I appreciate the help so much. I can't believe how kind the people on this forum are. If only more vets read this stuff!

Louise x
 
Amanda1801 said:
Cameo is doing better - she's pooing again now so thats good, they're going to keep her in over night to syringe feed her and continue her medication so that I don't have to be up all night again!
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So pleased about Cameo. I think at 1am and 4am this morning, I'll be wishing Peggy was back in hospital! Let me know how she gets on. Thinking of her (and you) xx
 
louise_stocker said:
I did manage to get them to give me fibreplex so she'll get that shortly (are you meant to give it separately from the antibiotic - I seem to remember reading somewhere that to give it a few hours before or after baytril?)
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It would be afterwards. I've been told that the optimum time to give probiotic is approx 1-2 hours after the antibiotic but if it gets too tricky to stick to that then I wouldn't worry too much.

You're doing brilliantly! x
 
So pleased Peggy is snoozing comfortably and has eaten. Well done for questioning what the vets said and not just accepting it when you didn't think it was right! They should be pleased an animals owner needs more explanation and is putting their pets first.

The girls send Peggy their wheeks and I'm sending you a hug x>>

Gemma, Ginny and Saffy xx
 
Hi guys,

Peggy ate quite well in the night but is refusing a lot of things again this morning. She's only taken some tiny pieces of hay and is getting angry with the syringe again after taking it so well yesterday.

I'm starting to worry about her teeth. Her chin seems soggy all the time and some pieces of hay I gave her, went in with great gusto then she kind of pulled them back out with her front paw with a soggy half chewed end. Thinner ones seemed okay but the more crunchy pieces came back out.

Can teeth grow that quickly? She was eating fine before the spay (Friday) so its only been 4-5 days of picky eating and syringe feeding.

Just don't know what to do with her. Tempted to take her back to the vets but I think they'll want to keep her and she was eating nothing at all on her own there. Even if I take a friend with her, I know they won't be able to put in the time tempting her with food that she's getting at home. Each feed is 3 hours apart but takes about an hour of encouraging her with everything we can think of.

She may need more meds though but the nurse said if she needed pain relief she had to be in the hospital and not at home. How can that make sense?

I just feel like between taking her in and bringing her out, she's going up and down like a yo-yo and we need her to stabilise out with meds and home comforts.

I've been given a business card by a friend of a vet that lives about 4 doors away and works from home. I know nothing about him but maybe he could give her injections in her own home.

Just don't know what to do.

Louise xx
 
Sorry to hear that things are still up and down. I've heard of guinea pigs needing their teeth trimmed after only a week of not eating properly on their own so her teeth could be starting to cause her discomfort. From what you've said I agree that it does seem like she has some inclination to eat but that is not properly able to.

I've not had a dental piggy myself but I'm sure others can give tips on how best to prepare/chop solid foods etc but her teeth may well need attention. If so, please just be careful where you take her as a good piggy savvy Vet (who can do conscious dentals wherever possible) can make such a difference. Not sure how far you could/should travel with her but perhaps others can recommend someone near you if needs be.

I can understand that you're feeling a bit stuck. As I think has already been mentioned, Debbie (Furryfriends) is hugely experienced with dental pigs and runs a sanctuary dedicated to helping them. Hopefully she'll see this thread soon otherwise you could PM her, I'm sure she won't mind.

Another person (whose advice I personally trust) is a lovely girl called Laura who runs the Guinea Pig Helpline. If you email/text her she will get back to you as soon as she can.
http://guineapighelpline.com/phone.html

Sorry I can't be of more help but I'm thinking of you both and wishing you all the very best x
 
Hi Missy

Thanks so much. I have had a recommendation of an exotic vet near us who I've left a message with to call me back. I'm waiting to hear from her (feel awkward about going behind the back of our regular vets though).

I just know she's happier at home (as that's the only place she's ever eaten anything of her own free will) but she's definitely off food again and off her syringe again.

It's just obvious to me that something (a drug) makes her feel well enough to eat but is leaving her system 18-24 hours after she comes home. Also concerned about teeth though.

I know anaesthetic should be unnecessary for dental work. I just hope someone will have a look at her teeth (even looking has been a problem in the past) and at least rule that out.

Thanks again, Louise x
 
Oh Louise I am so sorry to hear that Peggy is still having problems and now maybe teeth trouble on top :(

Poor little love is really going through it, but you seem really on top of things and are being such a good piggy mum, keeping an eye on her and noticing any problems. Sounds like you have been given some fantastic advice and contacts on here, don't worry about taking her to a different vet as you HAVE to do what is best for her and if that is a second opinion from another vet then go do it hun. The only thing you should be worrying about is Peggy and not upsetting your regular vet. Do the right thing, I am positive you will hun xx>>>

Special healing wheeks for Peggy and Ginny and Saffy are keeping their paws crossed. Lots of love and a big hug to you x>>

Gemma, Ginny and Saffy xx
 
Still waiting to hear back from the exotic vet - they were going to phone over to get the notes - I can only presume my regular vet is taking their time sending them. I seem to spend all my time waiting for the phone to ring these days.

Want to get something done as she's off food again but don't really want to speak to regular vet until I've spoken to the exotic one. Keep trying the syringe feeding but its getting harder and harder to get it in again. Can't believe how well she was taking it yesterday.

Thanks so much for all the support. When your piggie isn't getting better it's very hard not to feel like your missing something or not doing the right thing. Your messages mean so much.

Louise x
 
louise_stocker said:
When your piggie isn't getting better it's very hard not to feel like your missing something or not doing the right thing.
Click to expand...

I am sure that you're being vigilant and doing everything in your power. What you said about Peggy not doing so well when her meds wear off makes perfect sense to me. Getting expert help seems the only way forward so you're absolutely right to get a second opinion - people do that all the time so don't even give it another thought. You need to focus on getting Peggy (and you!) the best support you can...just like you are doing.

Hope the exotics Vet can see you very soon x
 
missy said:
To be honest I'm a bit confused about whether or not CC actually does contain probiotcs as I've seen contradictory opinions on this. Hopefully someone else can confirm this for sure!
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Oxbow Critical Care (both normal and fine grind) contains selenium yeast (a special strain of Saccharomyces cerevisiae) and therefore it does contain probiotic.

A different strain of the yeast S cerevisiae is also used as the probiotic in Protexin foods such as fibreplex and Pro-fibre.

Oxbow also contains full vitamin supplements including A, B, C, D and E.

However not all piggies like Oxbow.

The alternative Supreme Recovery which is available on the internet from eg Hyperdrug and other suppliers, does NOT contain either pro-biotic or vitamins so they need to be added to the mix. Supreme have just relaunched their Recovery product with new packaging (blue box.....and added a lovely 15ml piggie-friendly syringe to go with it)

They have also launched a new product Recovery PLUS (purple box). This does contain probiotics and vitamins and is of higher fibre content. I will eb uying this in future.

Mushed pellets are just as good a substitute..with some added fibreplex or other probiotic....and I also add ground up Vit C to the mix

HTH
x
 
I will reply at more length later (just have to go up to the vet now)

Please do NOT give your piggie metacam or any other pain relief if it is possible that your vet has been giving her steroid injections as an antiinflammatory and pain relief...in which case metacam is contraindicated and could indeed cause gastric ulcers


x
 
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Hi

Thanks for all the input. Tonight's update!

I didn't speak to the exotic vet but they did get all Peggy's notes faxed over, had a read through and rang my regular vet to discuss 'options'.

I then got a really nice call from my regular vet's practice and they seemed a lot more willing to listen and help.

Saw the vet who dealt with Peggy after the op (but didn't do the op). He told me to bring all 3 in and we'd decide what to do, with the possibility of keeping all 3 in the hospital (like I said, much more flexible!).

He had a good look at her teeth (all fine) and a good feel round. We decided he'd inject her with more metacam and emiprid (?) which I believe it for gut mobility. He said we could take her back home, monitor her again, syringe feed if necessary and booked another appointment for tomorrow.

She was so much more happy being examined with her friends with her and I think he really realised how important they are to her.

Anyway, back home, gave them their tea (big bowl of veggies) and she wandered straight over and helped herself (fighting off the other two!) She didn't eat as much as she normally would (i.e before the spay) and she did go and have a lie down quite quickly but she did keep getting up and going back for a bit more.

If she does go 'off' again I'll be expecting it at about midday tomorrow and the appointment is at 4.20pm so will have more to report to him.

He did mention she may have 'adhesions' and if so, would need operating on again. Haven't really looked into this yet.

Anyway, we're back 'up' again and its pretty obvious it's one of the injections that does it.

Will keep you updated.

Louise xx
 
Pebble said:
Oxbow Critical Care (both normal and fine grind) contains selenium yeast (a special strain of Saccharomyces cerevisiae) and therefore it does contain probiotic.

A different strain of the yeast S cerevisiae is also used as the probiotic in Protexin foods such as fibreplex and Pro-fibre.

Oxbow also contains full vitamin supplements including A, B, C, D and E.

However not all piggies like Oxbow.

The alternative Supreme Recovery which is available on the internet from eg Hyperdrug and other suppliers, does NOT contain either pro-biotic or vitamins so they need to be added to the mix. Supreme have just relaunched their Recovery product with new packaging (blue box.....and added a lovely 15ml piggie-friendly syringe to go with it)

They have also launched a new product Recovery PLUS (purple box). This does contain probiotics and vitamins and is of higher fibre content. I will eb uying this in future.

Mushed pellets are just as good a substitute..with some added fibreplex or other probiotic....and I also add ground up Vit C to the mix

HTH
x
Click to expand...

Thanks so much for this. It would seem that unfortunately Peggy is one of the pigs that hates critical care but does like recovery. I'm going to be buying some online and will definitely be trying the recovery plus. I really appreciate you letting me know as I probably would have just bought the normal one.

She is having fibreplex too so probiotic is covered. I'm concerned about the vits though but will put in an order tonight for recovery plus.

Thanks again,

Louise xx
 
Pebble said:
I will reply at more length later (just have to go up to the vet now)

Please do NOT give your piggie metacam or any other pain relief if it is possible that your vet has been giving her steroid injections as an antiinflammatory and pain relief...in which case metacam is contraindicated and could indeed cause gastric ulcers


x
Click to expand...

Hi
Thanks again. I haven't given any metacam. She was injected with it this afternoon and we will be seeing the vet the same tomorrow. He did say I could give her liquid metacam (once the injection has worn off) as long as she had a full stomach. I won't be giving her any metacam before seeing the vet again anyway but just so you know, she did have other pain relief in the hospital but it was the opiate type.
Louise xx
 
What a turnaround from your usual Vets! It's great to hear that they're more open to suggestion now. Well done you for perservering.

You're doing such a brilliant job with Peggy. Keep up the hard work, it's clearly paying off. Fingers crossed that she simply needs more time to heal and the 'downs' dwindle out soon. Bless her, she sounds like such a lovely piggy and clearly loves being at home with her piggy friends and you. Really hoping that she has a good night x
 
I'll deal with the isues one by one and hopefully they will help to clarify things.
If you want to print this out and ake it to your second opinion consultation then please feel free to do so.

a) The fact that she only seems to eat for 18-20 hours and then is very reticent would suggest that it is pain relief (or lack of) that is the problem. Obviously she needs 24hour pain relief at the moment if she is to even take a syringe and the question is what to give her. It sounds like your vet has given her injectable pain relief and without knowing what that is it is difficult to comment. However if it is steroids (eg prednisone) then these would last approx 18-20 hours and you cannot mix them with non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs (NSAID) as there is a real risk of gastric problems including ulceration. If you swop over your drugs from steroids to NSAID's such as metacam, then some vets recommend waiting 5 days but as guinea pigs have a fast metabolism my vet only waits 24 hours.

If it is vetergesic she has been given instead of steroids, then this is OK to mix with metacam as it is an opiate based pain relief. However she will probably be quite dozy and opiates can slow down the guts so a gut stimulant should be considered. Also whilst one dose of vetergesic can be effective, subsequent doses have been known not to provide any further pain relief.

Ideally you want her on 24hour pain relief - if she hasn;t had any injections today from the vet, and assuming she has been given steroids to date, I would work towards getting her off steroids and back onto metacam...this *** unfortunately mean no pain relief today but tomorrow you should be able to get her back on metacam and You can then split the dose every 12 hours.

b) As to metacam causing gastric ulcers because of an empty stomach, I have never heard this from my vet and am therefore wondering if there has been some confusion and the real risk is because of the steroid injections. I have had many piggies being given metcam by my vet who arent eating and at no time has there been any quoted risk. If your vet is worried then two suggestions could help minimise this percieved risk. Firstly sandwich any metacam dose in between mouthfuls of food (I try to do this with any drug I give my piggies) and secondly perhaps the vet would consider prescribing zantac (2mg/kg twice daily) as this is not only an ant-acid but a prokinetic and would help your piggies gut keep moving as well as protecting the stomach lining.

c) Your piggie needs food - in her current condition I personally think it is unwise to stop syringe feeding on the worry that she will become depenedent upon it.
I have recently had a very sick guinea pig who wouldn;t eat, was on two types of antibiotics, gut stimulants (metoclopromide and zantac) and metacam. At no point did my vet suggest stopping feeding critical care to get him to eat on his own - it is essential to keep their guts moving with SUFFICIENT quantities of food/fibre and if they start to rely on the syringe then so be it - you can wean them back off when they are WELL! Most piggies are only too happy to start eating for themselves when they feel like it - it's the ones with long term dental issues that tend to stick to the syringe longer than most.

Ideally you should be aiming to feed every 2-3 hours with 20-30ml - this is a full stomach's worth and gives the stomach time to empty between feeds...which is important expecially in a piggie whose gut is not moving very well. Also feed 5-6ml of liquid every hour inbetween if the piggie isn;t drinking.

d) Given the lack of eating, then her gut may be going into stasis - you need to monitor her poos for size, shape and frequency. She probably needs a gut motility drug to get it going again as well as the regular syringe feeding of food. Metoclopromide works on the foregut and helps the stomach to empty whilst zantac works on the hind gut....some vets give both whilst others now routinely recommend zanatac in place of the traditional metoclopromide.

e) Don;t worry about teeth at the moment as there are other far more pressing concerns to deal with - Yes, after 7 days there will be some overgrowth - but this will be minimal provided your piggie had healthy teeth before and will first be noted usually on the incisors (I took Bandit to Simon Maddock - he had been syringe fed for three weeks and all that was noticeable was a slight ridge on the incisors to indicate overgrowth as a result of his not eating ) My concern is the soggy chin that could indicate she has some food stuck inside her mouth that has been there for sometime...however guinea pigs who are in pain and don;t want to eat are very very good at dribbling things back out of their mouths. When you;re feeding her stroke her as it encourages swallowing/chewing

f) you now have baytril which is good as it will hopefully get rid of/prevent any infection that could develop post operatively. Monitor her for change in body temperature and if her ears/feet start burning then go back to the vet as you may need to consider changing the antibioic to one such as septrin or azithromycin to counteract a developing internal infection. If you;re feeding Supreme recovery, add some probioitic and Vit C ground up into the Recovery as part of her syringe feed.

g) Monitor her drinking as sometimes ill piggies won;t drink either and become dehydrated. Best if you can try and syringe 5-6ml of fluid down her every hour.....a bit of hney or gliucose in with the water will help to give her some energy

Hopefully this covers the issues you have raised...
Fingers crossed your second opinion consultation goes well.

x
 
To Pebble

Thank you so so much for your post. The information is wonderful and so helpful. I can't thank you enough for taking the time to put all that down.

I don't think we're too far off the mark now. My earlier post (we were probably typing at the same time!) was about our latest consultation and I think the medications you mentioned are pretty much covered now. Just a shame it took so long to get there.

With regards to food, I'm not sure I'm getting enough in. She gets fed up of the syringe before we get anywhere near 20-30ml. She is eating bits on her own though so she's not completely off food.

In fact she's actually put on 25g tonight since this morning which is the first time she's actually gained weight.

She does seem quite keen to take water from a syringe and her poos are quite dry so I think we possibly need to get more water into her too.

I've just bought some recovery plus but in the meantime will make sure she's getting probiotic and vitamins.

Thank you again - you've been so helpful and I really appreciate it.

Louise xx
 
louise_stocker said:
In fact she's actually put on 25g tonight since this morning which is the first time she's actually gained weight.
This is a really good sign...but you;re not out of the woods yet! Please stay vigilant


She does seem quite keen to take water from a syringe and her poos are quite dry so I think we possibly need to get more water into her too.

This is no very improtant to monitor. Very dry crumbly poos could mean she needs daily sub-cutanoues fluids for a few days. Even if her skin test doesn;t show dehydration, if the poos are still dry and crumbly tomorrow then your vet nees to consider this....I speak from experience

I've just bought some recovery plus but in the meantime will make sure she's getting probiotic and vitamins.

Thank you again - you've been so helpful and I really appreciate it.

Louise xx
Click to expand...

Hi Louise....This type of situation with our piggies really is a "baptism by fire" and I really do know how you feel....the good news is that given the tenacity of the piggy slave, the correct treatment/information ..and a co-operative and willing vet.. ...it is perfectly possible to get our piggies back to full health. I'm so pleased that things are now moving positively forwards for you and Peggy.

I will PM you my phone number. Peggy should still be regarded as "critical" (and things can change suddenly) although I'm hoping that actually she should start to stabilise now given the meds/treatment she has received

Most important now is the poos/guts/dehydration issue (might be an idea to get some diarolyte and zantac in from the local supermarket if you havent already) and if you are at all worried about anything then please ring me. I'll be up late tonight as I have a poorly piggie to monitor and am around most of tomorrow.

x
 
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