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What's in Rosie's best interests?

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gingerpig

gingerpig

Adult Guinea Pig
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Hi
My Rosie (age 4.5), ginger rex, is losing a fair bit of pala pink streaked urine and looks a bit bulgy at the back.
The vet said to treat as urine infection and she's been on the baytril nearly a week and it's not cleared. I took her back in on Friday and vet said give her a few more days then . . .

she's going to need an x-ray (gen anaesthetic first) to establish if its kidney/bladder stones. Or it may show up a mass which would **** be a tumour. I think she said a tumour isn't really operable but stones might be but the vet seemed to think 4.5 was elderly for a piggie and suggested it "night not necessarily be in Rosie's best interests" to operate. Is this vet speak for "you ought to have her put down?"

Anyone been in this situation? How do elderly pigs cope with ops? It's almost deja vu, this is exactly what happened with Bella a few months back, the x-ray showed a tumour and they said it was inoperable so we had to say goodbye.

I don't know the costs involved for an op, Bella's xray and gen anaesthetic was £85 just to establish what it was. I'm guessing 250? No new clothes for me this winter then (worth it though if it saves Rosie).

Another thing which I ought to mention is, Rosie lost a lot of weight last winter (went from 1150g to 580g) and I'm sure she wouldn't have made it through the winter if I hadn't brought her & Smudge indoors until the frosts lifted in about March. She took a lot of feeding up and tlc and her bodyweight is about 850g now. They do lose weight as they age tho don't they?

Sorry to waffle, if you've not lost interest yet please tell me what you think. Thanks x
 
I don't think it's vet speak for "time to euthanase" at all. I think it's a case of making a decision between surgery (which obviously has it's risks) or managing her symptoms as they arise e.g. pain relief etc. and making her as comfortable as possible, for whatever time she has left.

Good luck with the xrays!
 
it could be something really simple to solve if they know what they're dealing with. i've thankfully never been put in a position like this so far (touch wood) so i can't imagine how scared you must be for your piggys. at the end of the day it's up to you to choose what you think is best for her hun. but i personally think the risks for xraying her would be worth it to get her better x x
 
Could your vet not do an ultra sound ? Sure someone who has experienced this will be able to advise.
It's heartbreaking having a poorly piggy :0
 
Yup, we are so worried. We will def have the xray done although it will mean a gen anaesthetic but Bella made it through that at about the same age so fingers crossed.

It's if she needs an operation. Whether at 4.5 its fair to put her through it. The vet seemed to suggest it was a huge thing for her. But might give her a few more years? (Or is that unlikely given last years winter scenario?)

Is 4.5 that old?
 
Guinea pig slave said:
Could your vet not do an ultra sound ? Sure someone who has experienced this will be able to advise.
It's heartbreaking having a poorly piggy :0
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No one has mentioned an ultrasound. I could ask though. Is that a standard thing available at most vets?
 
Sorry to hear that Rosie is unwell. If I were you I would find a recommended guinea pig vet able to do xrays/scans without anaesthetic.

Hope you get some answers soon, so you know what you're dealing with. Fingers crossed for the best outcome x
 
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Where in the south are you? I know 2 vets in surrey who will at least try to do x-rays without GA. 4.5 isn't ancient, but she is well into middle age and the older a pig gets, the riskier things like this are.
Depending on what the vet finds during the x-ray (i.e. no stones, not tumour) then it may be worth speaking to the vet about trying Septrim - my pigs bladder infection didn't clear up with Baytril, but the Septrim worked a treat! All in all though it took about 3 weeks for it all to clear up though.
Whatever you decide, good luck and I hope it goes well.

Forgot to add - my vet did an ultra sound at the same time as x-rays, so like others have said, worth discussing with them.
 
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Little Pig said:
Where in the south are you? I know 2 vets in surrey who will at least try to do x-rays without GA. 4.5 isn't ancient, but she is well into middle age and the older a pig gets, the riskier things like this are.
Depending on what the vet finds during the x-ray (i.e. no stones, not tumour) then it may be worth speaking to the vet about trying Septrim - my pigs bladder infection didn't clear up with Baytril, but the Septrim worked a treat! All in all though it took about 3 weeks for it all to clear up though.
Whatever you decide, good luck and I hope it goes well.

Forgot to add - my vet did an ultra sound at the same time as x-rays, so like others have said, worth discussing with them.
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I'm between Bournemouth and Southampton on the coast.

Interesting to hear about the Septrim, would be great if it worked for Rosie. I will ask the vet this week.

Going off to google guinea specialist vets. Thanks for your helpx
 
Sorry to hear about Rosie.

Vets can do xrays without GA my piggie had it done. So maybe worth looking for a vet that will try?

Also as another member has said paediatric septrin is an alternative AB used for guineas and I have found it more effective than baytril with my pigs so worth asking x
 
gingerpig said:
I'm between Bournemouth and Southampton on the coast.

Going off to google guinea specialist vets. Thanks for your helpx
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If I were you I'd email/call "Wheak & Squeak" guinea pig rescue (Bishop's Waltham, Southampton) and ask if they can recommend a good guinea Vet near you, preferably one which can do conscious x-rays:
http://www.freewebs.com/cavylover1/contactme.htm
 
As Missy has already suggested - contact W&S and get their vet details. For general x rays and scans no GA is normally needed by a cavy savvy vet.

As for piggies losing weight as they age, not the amount your pig lost, that is a great deal of weight and not to be dismissed as aging. Four and a half is not that old, a few weeks ago a forum member's 6 year old pig had bladder surgery and he is making a great recovery, so please do not give up!

Suzy x
 
I'd say go with your gut feelings. Do you think Rosie can easily be put trough aneastetics and/or surgery? Do you feel she's strong enough to survive it and trive for another year or two?

If yes to any/all, I'd say go ahead, if in doubt I'd look what other options there are. Homeopatic medicins sometimes can help a great deal.

Contact another vet if you don't trust your current one.

It's all up to you, but I'd say look at Rosie and put yourself in her little feet. What would she like you to do? Is she still happy, active, or is she really down? We cannot judge that from here, but I'd say pets best intrest before owners best intrest any day.
 
pollekeskisses said:
I'd say go with your gut feelings. Do you think Rosie can easily be put trough aneastetics and/or surgery? Do you feel she's strong enough to survive it and trive for another year or two?

If yes to any/all, I'd say go ahead, if in doubt I'd look what other options there are. Homeopatic medicins sometimes can help a great deal.

Contact another vet if you don't trust your current one.

It's all up to you, but I'd say look at Rosie and put yourself in her little feet. What would she like you to do? Is she still happy, active, or is she really down? We cannot judge that from here, but I'd say pets best intrest before owners best intrest any day.
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Thanks everyone.

My gut feelings are to give her whatever chance we can.

Rosie seems happy enough, feeding and acting normally really. Have e-mailed W&S, waiting for reply now. A guinea savvy vet would be so much better. Obv my current vet isn't that experienced with guineas then as Bella was given a GA just for an xray.

We have lost 2 pigs (Molly then Bella) just before they were 5 so its great to hear of a piggy having a bladder op at 6 and doing well, so pleased xx>>>.

I can't thank you enough, I don't feel so alone with it with you guys here x:)
 
Just an update . . . . when I check Rosie today and gave her her medicine, she was VERY dry underneath and didn't seem to be losing any wee/blood. . . . fingers crossed she's on the mend x
 
One of mine was recently treated for this with baytril. She was on it for 3 weeks before it cleared up so it is worth keep trying for a bit longer
 
gingerpig said:
Just an update . . . . when I check Rosie today and gave her her medicine, she was VERY dry underneath and didn't seem to be losing any wee/blood. . . . fingers crossed she's on the mend x
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Great news!
 
I'm so delighted she seems to have come through this! I hope I'm not counting my chickens but she seems fine down below now and is out with the others in the run tidying the grass . . .

YIPPEE!
 
Oh Little Pig thank you for asking, just when she's finished up the antibiotic and I thought she was better she's been losing a little pinkish wee again. . . .

I think I'll take her to the vet again tomorrow and see if they can give her either septrin as someone on here suggested or some more baytril, maybe we've not quite knocked it on the head yet. :...
 
I was hoping for better news than that, but a little pink is much better than red! I would definitely ask about the Septrim (full name is Septrim Pediatric Suspension - I think). Good luck at the vets tomorrow.
 
I agree that it'd be worth asking for Septrin instead of Baytril. Septrin is often considered to be more a effective antibiotic for UTI/bladder issues. Alongside the Septrin I would also ask for an anti-inflammatory to help ease any pain - preferably Rimadyl but Metacam is also good.

UTI infections can sometimes be very stubborn and take several weeks to clear up but I hope that you're still considering finding a good piggy Vet who can do a conscious xray as I feel that that should definitely be your next step. Does Rosie still look "bulgy"?

Can't remember if it's already been mentioned in this thread but some people syringe-feed sugar-free Cranberry juice (like Ocean Spray Light) to their pigs to help ease the symptoms of Cystitis etc. Homemade barley water also helps in the same way (just boil up plain pearl barley with water, simmer for about 45 mins, drain off the water and squish the barley through a sieve to get the really sticky gloopy stuff. Any of it can be fed to piggy but the really gloopy stuff is best.)

Many people on here have experience of the kind of things you've described in Rosie's case so please hang in there and keep us updated! x
 
If you need a goog piggy savvy vet then go to Jenny Towers in Reading. Its a little bit of a trek for you but well worth it. She does xray's with no GA and has a huge amount of experience with bladder issues. She really is excellent and has saved several of my bladder piggies over the years. They are just off the M4 in Tilehurst.

Hopefully things will continue to improve but I cannot recommend her enough if you are still worried, I won't go anywhere else and I know Anna at Wheek and Squeak uses her too for more complex issues.

Details are here:
http://www.activevetcare.co.uk/Practices/tilehurst.asp

Hoping you won't need to though :))
 
Sometimes it can take a few weeks to clear up, i've been lucky in so far as it's only been about 7-10 days for her to be ok.
Whee will have all paws, claws and fingers crossed for little Rosie xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx


GOOD LUCK ROSIE AND HEALING WHEEEEEEEEEEKS XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
 
missy said:
I agree that it'd be worth asking for Septrin instead of Baytril. Septrin is often considered to be more a effective antibiotic for UTI/bladder issues. Alongside the Septrin I would also ask for an anti-inflammatory to help ease any pain - preferably Rimadyl but Metacam is also good.

UTI infections can sometimes be very stubborn and take several weeks to clear up but I hope that you're still considering finding a good piggy Vet who can do a conscious xray as I feel that that should definitely be your next step. Does Rosie still look "bulgy"?

Can't remember if it's already been mentioned in this thread but some people syringe-feed sugar-free Cranberry juice (like Ocean Spray Light) to their pigs to help ease the symptoms of Cystitis etc. Homemade barley water also helps in the same way (just boil up plain pearl barley with water, simmer for about 45 mins, drain off the water and squish the barley through a sieve to get the really sticky gloopy stuff. Any of it can be fed to piggy but the really gloopy stuff is best.)

Many people on here have experience of the kind of things you've described in Rosie's case so please hang in there and keep us updated! x
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Thanks for your help & advice

No Rosie is not so bulgy now

She had an xray (no GA just a light sedation as she is a right wriggler, they nicknamed her Fidget before I got her lol), there are NO bladder stones, of that the vet is certain. Unlikely to be a tumour but vet can't totally rule it out (although when our Bella had a bladder tumour the xray showed it clearly so fingers crossed)

So presuming urine infection. Antibiotics for another 2 weeks (Baytrilrolleyes), they've given metacam too, will get some cranberry juice . . . never thought of that, don't know where to get pearl barley but will enquire, maybe health food shop?)

She's been inside last night but up and happily breakfasting this morning and going out with her friends in the hutch soon.

Thanks so much for all your help. I'd love to have taken her to Reading but with all the commitments I have, work, kids etc, it's not logistically possible:(

But Rosie is now seeing someone at our vets who has done many GP ops etc and is more knowledgable than some of the others (although they are all very kind)

Will keep you posted if you are interestedx>>
 
Hey this is a complete different subject, but can someone tell me how to make a forum? I'm currently new here. :)
 
Thanks for the update gingerpig - I really hope this longer course of Baytril will nip the infection in the bud. Great news that she doesn't have a stone.
 
Little Pig said:
Thanks for the update gingerpig - I really hope this longer course of Baytril will nip the infection in the bud. Great news that she doesn't have a stone.
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Thanks little pig. She's lost a bit more weight since they had her in for the xray and not very interested in her food but I'm guessing that might be normal. Also I don't think she liked being separated from her hutchmates when I took her in for the night, I think it stressed her. Although that's what the vet said to do rolleyes and no doubt she was a tad warmer (although the nights aren't very chilly atm).

Anyway fingers crossed
 
gingerpig said:
Thanks little pig. She's lost a bit more weight since they had her in for the xray and not very interested in her food but I'm guessing that might be normal. Also I don't think she liked being separated from her hutchmates when I took her in for the night, I think it stressed her. Although that's what the vet said to do rolleyes and no doubt she was a tad warmer (although the nights aren't very chilly atm).

Anyway fingers crossed
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Sorry to hear your little one is still having problems - I hate bladder issues with a passion having experienced far too many stones/infections:(

Just a thought on the loss of interest in food, Baytril can supress the apetite which is perhaps why Rosie has lost a little more weight. This is another reason my vet is happier to give Septrin for bladder infections (in addition to the fact it seems to work better for this type of issue) as it is easier on the tummy, particularly as with a stubborn infection a piggy might be on antibiotics for several weeks. Another thought, are you giving Rosie any pro-biotic, Bio Lapis is the one vets usually stock. It's a powder you mix with water and encourages good gut bacteria, but you need to give it a couple of hours after her antibiotics otherwise the Baytril will kill off all the good bacteria.

Sending healing vibes to your little one.
 
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