Worming Piggies

[Claire K]

I have seen in a couple of threads that people worm their Piggies - mine are 10 weeks old this week and I wondered if / when i should start worming them, how often and what with ?

Thanks so much
Claire x

 

[alcesterpigs]

The widely used approach is to give a pig two drops of Ivomec by mouth and six drops of Panacur, also by mouth, every three months. Ivomec deals with mites and Panacur is a effective against intestinal worms.
Many vets think that this is unnecessary, forgetting that guinea pigs, like sheep and cattle are herbivores, which are treated on a regular basis. That does seem an illogical way to think!

 

[Claire K]

Thanks AP, will get the neccescary medication then. My little ones are only 10 weeks old - do you know what age they can start having it given to them ?

x

 

[alcesterpigs]

Ivomec and Panacur are both Prescription Only Medicines.
They should NOT be used on pigs under six months old.

 

[Delia]

The routine use of Panacue and Ivermectin is a waste of time and dangerous.Giving drugs as a preventative diminishes the affectiveness.Malaria is on the increase because the drugs to cure it are used as a prophylactic.

Intestinal worms are rare in gp`s and would only infect them if they were allowed to eat grass contaminated by wild mice or other rodents.

Ivermectin should only be given if a gp is showing symptoms of a mite infestation.



Maryh

 

[alcesterpigs]

Neither Pancur nor Ivomectin is ""dangerous" when given at the recommended dose.
If a guinea pig does not have a mite infestation when Ivomec is given there is no way that mites can develop a resistance!

 

[Delia]

Yes,Ivermectin and Panacur are safe at the right dose.My meaning is that giving these drugs,or in fact any drug as a prophylactic can be dangerous as it can cause immunity.
Gp`s have mites on the skin all the time,but in such low numbers that they do not cause any iritation.It is only when a gp is stressed or unwell that they increase in numbers and start to causae irritation.So routine giving of Ivermectin could build up an immunity. In any case,Ivermectin is a strong chemical so why use it when it is not neccesary.Gp`s weak point is their renal system sso the least number of drugs they have the better.


Maryh

 

[alcesterpigs]

If mites are present all of the time then, given the correct dose of Ivomec, the mites will be killed thereby not allowing an immunity to develop. This does not mean to say that the pig will never again become infested.
Does Ivomec cause kidney damage?

 

[Delia]

The gp`s themselves could become immune to the drug.

Ivermectin given routinely has been known to cause renal and hepatic damage in rats.As far as I know no scientific research has been done on the effects of the chemical on gp`s.Any substance that is injected,given orally or topically is going to get into the renal system so my point is that it is better to put the least amount of drugs into our piggies that is possible.Obviously if they have mites,an infection or other serious problem they have to have the drugs needed to combat the problem.

It is up to each individual gp owner to make a reasoned descision for themselves on giving medication or any treatment.

Maryh

 

[alcesterpigs]

How can the pig become immune to Ivomec and, if so, why would this cause mite immunity?
I can accept that there is evidence that rats can suffer kidney and/or liver damage from Ivomec HOWEVER that is meaningless without knowing how many times greater the toxic dose is than the therapeutic dose.

 

[summerleaze]

Can I urge anyone considering worming their guinea pigs to do extensive research into appropriate products and dosage and not rely on one source of information. This applies to treatment for mites too.

Panacur is an animal wormer but it available in different forms. Ivermectin is also available in different forms. Not neccesarily a POM either.

There is a considerable amount of expertise and experience on this forum but it's important that information contained in threads is backed up by readers own research.

If you are unsure please consult a suitably qualified person

 

[alcesterpigs]

Panacur 2.5% Sheep Worming Solution. 0.4ml by mouth.
Ivomec for cattle (Ivermectin 1% w/v) 0.1ml by mouth or 0.2ml by injection.

Those are what I use on my pigs.

 

[Delia]

I do not use Panacur but the Ivermectin I use is Zeno 450 which is topical ,one drop to the back of the neck,or Pharmaq topical applied the same as the Zeno 450. I have used these products for several year on quite a few piggies.Found them affective and safe.My vet also recommends Zeno 450.


All the information I put on any forum is based on my own experience with caring for gp`s for 30+ years.I never put information up that is just something I have heard about.

I have professionaL human nursing qualifications including study and research into the side affects and mis-use of prescription drugs and over the counter drugs.

I do 100% agree though,that everyone needs to be very cautious and careful what they put on the forum as it could lead to confusion ,and possibly harm someones gp.

Vetinary medicine like human medicine is changing and improving all the time.This in itself can cause confusion because a drug/treatment that used to be commonly used on gp`s can quickly become outdated.

Peter Gurney wrote brilliant books on gp care,but most of the treatment in them now has been updated and changed.I know,if Peter is watching me from the bridge he will not mind me saying this because he was the first to discuss and research any new treatments/drugs.( and how I miss those discussions.

The bottom line is--if you are worried about your piggy and it seems very unwell,,do not waste time looking on forums ,get to a vet asap.Gp1s can go downhill very quickly and time is of an essence.

Right,soap box back in cupboard!.


Maryh

 

[alcesterpigs]

The problem, or rather question, is do high street vets keep upto date on guinea pig problems/treatments? G. pigs are something of a minority interest in animal terms.

 

[PiggiePal]

yes i agree, alot of the time you go to a vet and they haven't got the foggiest how to best treat a guinea pig. I think alcesterpigs and Delia both have a long history with guinea pigs and this conversation highlights that there are a few different views on how to treat mites and worms. So, as long as they are tried and tested methods by people who know what they're talking about i'm sure either way is fine, is up to the individual to decide which method you'd rather take!

 

[Laura-CCC4]

Interesting points brought up here. Myself, I do worm my pigs. Personally I feel comfortable doing so as it is a very small dose given only four times per year. When I had experience of pigs with unexplained weight loss which was corrected with the use of Panacur, I decided to routinely treat my own pigs. My decision was as a result of my own experiences as well as research into both the "pros and cons" of worming. People will come to different views on this unless perhaps there is a scientific study of some sort which proves, one way or the other, the safety and effectiveness of using Ivomec and Panacur routinely in guinea pigs.

Of course, it goes without saying that forum advice does not replace veterinary advice. Even though it goes without saying, it is always said. The big problem is that most people who post on here do so because there vet is quite clearly useless with guinea pigs, and many vets have given up entirely on the pigs. A number of vets have listened to the ideas the owner has as a result of advice sought on this forum, and in some cases, the owners own research has actually saved their guinea pig. The importance of having a reliable, experienced vet cannot be emphasised enough, but for those who cannot find a good vet (but are lucky enough to have a vet who will listen to the owner), the advice given here can turn out to be very important.

I agree that another difficulty is keeping up with new treatments evolving, and keeping up to date with all developments in the field. However, I do feel that unless there is a probem with previous, "old-fashioned" treatments, there is little reason to rule them out, especially since most vets also rely on such older methods - and such treatments have served many guineas well over the years.
A good example is the antibiotic Zithromax - a few people here have had fantastic results with the use of Zithromax on guinea pigs, but how many vets would even consider using it on guinea pigs? Thus we go on emphasising the doses for Baytril and the like because that is what most vets use, they have not caught up. It is a widespread problem, unfortunately, and until there are some frequent training sessions or something similar to keep vets up to date with the latest treatments and techniques, the large majority of vets will remain some way behind the few that are leading the way.

 

[Delia]

I agree that sadly a lot of vets are still ignorant of the proper treatments for gp`s and other rodents.I am lucky in that I have a brilliant open minded vet who has specialised in gp`S and when I told her about Peter Gurney,(a long time ago) she was happy to learn from him.She soon became proficient at dental work without sedation.
The practise she works in is a teaching one and she makes sure that all the vet students are taught that gp`s are as important to the owners as cats and dog.

Vets like this are still rare,but they are on the increase,I have heard about a lot of other vets over the country who are very interested in gp`s.

It is important to find a gp specialist vet if you can ,but not always possible.The best thing to do in this case is to find a vet who is at least open minded and will take advice ,if not from laymen,but from another vet.My vet is always happy to speak to other vets seeking advice,and I know some of the other good vets will do the same.
We should all try and educate our vets,although I know that some just will not listen.
With all the pressure that Peter and my vet have put on the RCVS things are slowly improving.

Maryh