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Worst flare up, and weight loss of 100g+

Toffee and Oreo

Toffee and Oreo

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
Jan 29, 2023
Messages
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Location
England
Hi everyone

As by the title, Toffee isn’t doing too great, she hasn’t had a flare up at all, for over 6 months now, but suddenly 3 days ago she’s now having the worst one she’s ever had in her life. I’ve put her straight onto her max dose of metacam 0.3ml of the dog one 2x per day, but there’s still no sign of the bleeding stopping. She’s also lost over 100g too over the course of I'm not sure how long. All I know is that on the 14th she weighed 1.003kg and now before veg she’s 820g. She is usually around the 920g mark when she is at home with us, but because we were on holiday for a month and I came back and weighed her on the 14th, I was quite surprised how much weight she gained. So I’m not sure which weight to count the weight loss from. She still has most her appetite, which I guess is a good sign, she still is squeeking for veg. But she is a bit more lethargic than usual, which I’m not surprised by, as she must be in a lot of pain. I’m just shocked by how much blood is coming out, I changed her fleeces around 10mins ago and there are already 5 big blotches covering it. The blood, (not 100% sure it’s blood cause I’ve heard about phophorine) I’ve seen coming straight out of her and it’s quite thick and dark, like a rich dark red, and it just keeps on oozing out of her. I’m really worried about her, and I know if I take her to the vets, there’s not much they can do, as all they will say is to just give her metacam and wait for it to clear up. Is there anything I can try to try stop the bleeding, cause I don’t know how much more she can take of it. I’ve attached a photo of all the blood that has come out of her over the course of the last 3 days so you can see the scale of it. Sorry about the long message I’m just really worried about her 😖
 

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Toffee and Oreo said:
Hi everyone

As by the title, Toffee isn’t doing too great, she hasn’t had a flare up at all, for over 6 months now, but suddenly 3 days ago she’s now having the worst one she’s ever had in her life. I’ve put her straight onto her max dose of metacam 0.3ml of the dog one 2x per day, but there’s still no sign of the bleeding stopping. She’s also lost over 100g too over the course of I'm not sure how long. All I know is that on the 14th she weighed 1.003kg and now before veg she’s 820g. She is usually around the 920g mark when she is at home with us, but because we were on holiday for a month and I came back and weighed her on the 14th, I was quite surprised how much weight she gained. So I’m not sure which weight to count the weight loss from. She still has most her appetite, which I guess is a good sign, she still is squeeking for veg. But she is a bit more lethargic than usual, which I’m not surprised by, as she must be in a lot of pain. I’m just shocked by how much blood is coming out, I changed her fleeces around 10mins ago and there are already 5 big blotches covering it. The blood, (not 100% sure it’s blood cause I’ve heard about phophorine) I’ve seen coming straight out of her and it’s quite thick and dark, like a rich dark red, and it just keeps on oozing out of her. I’m really worried about her, and I know if I take her to the vets, there’s not much they can do, as all they will say is to just give her metacam and wait for it to clear up. Is there anything I can try to try stop the bleeding, cause I don’t know how much more she can take of it. I’ve attached a photo of all the blood that has come out of her over the course of the last 3 days so you can see the scale of it. Sorry about the long message I’m just really worried about her 😖
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Hi

HUGS

Please step in with feeding support asap. Part of the lethargy can come from lack of eating less and less hay for several days. This guide here tells you what to do if you aren't prepared. Make sure that you also offer water via a syringe but don't just squirt it in to prevent it from going down the wrong way.
Wiebke

Thread 'How to Improvise Feeding Support in an Emergency'

1 Feed
- Important crisis management resources
- When is improvising necessary?
- Which food group am I replacing with my feeding support?
- How much and how often should I feed and water?
- What can I use that I have already got at home?
- Other possible easily available foods with their pros and cons
- How do I prep a syringe for rougher pellet fibre?
- What can I do without a syringe?
- The role of lukewarm water
2 Probiotics
- Probiotic products...
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The maroon colour is characteristic of porphyrin so please take a deep breath; this is not sheer blood and some of it is looking partially dried in so the pees have been made over a space of time. Peeing more frequently during a flare is normal but since normal pees usually don't show up the amount will come as a bit of a shock.
Wiebke

Thread 'Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones'

1 The Urinary Tract
2 Pees
- Water intake changes
- Pee discoloration
3 Infections
- Bacterial urine infection (UTI)
- Bacterial cystitis
- Sterile cystitis (interstitial cystitis or IC)
4 Stones, Sludge and Crystals
- Crystals, stones and sludge
- Stone and sludge removal
5 Kidneys...

You can up the metacam safely to 0.4 ml twice daily for a few days.
Sorry, I cannot remember your glucosamine support but if possible also max it out to see whether you can cap the IC flare.

See your vet promptly if things are not better by Monday and sooner if she keeps going downhill despite the feeding support.

All the best. It is always a lot more stressful on a bank holiday weekend.
 
Thanks so much, she seemed better ish today, shes still not 100% as still is producing lots of red pees around the cage, one fleece was similar to the worst In the photo above, but she is now up to 868g now, so I’m not too worried about her not eating. Hopefully it’s an uphill road from here
 
Hi again,
Toffee isn’t 100% still, she’s still in quite a bit of pain, cause she just sits in the cage fluffed up staring into nothing for little bits at a time. She still has red pees ish, they’ve got more yellowish tints to them now, but they’re a lot smaller. When I picked her up to observe her bits, there is pinky yellowish stuff coming out, and it’s thickish. Could this mean she has an infection now? And why it’s taken her so long to recover? Cause she still isn’t better. We are trying to get a vet appointment for her today too.
 
Toffee and Oreo said:
Hi again,
Toffee isn’t 100% still, she’s still in quite a bit of pain, cause she just sits in the cage fluffed up staring into nothing for little bits at a time. She still has red pees ish, they’ve got more yellowish tints to them now, but they’re a lot smaller. When I picked her up to observe her bits, there is pinky yellowish stuff coming out, and it’s thickish. Could this mean she has an infection now? And why it’s taken her so long to recover? Cause she still isn’t better. We are trying to get a vet appointment for her today too.
Click to expand...

Hi

I am very sorry. Good that you are having her seen because this doesn't sound quite normal and needs to be checked.

We can go only ever go by what you tell us and our own owner experience but we can never replace a vet. The long weekend has of course not helped. :(

All the best. I hope that you can get to the bottom of what is going on.
 
Just been to the vet, she’s got a tumor the size of a Brussel sprout on her bladder, so she only has a few months left, I’ve opted not to go for surgery, due to her age and how risky it is. Now just palliative care for the next few months, we’ve now giving her 0.6ml of metacam 2x daily as well as 0.05ml gabapenton, and if that’s not enough we are going to give paracetamol too. Feeling pretty devastated, but at least she won’t be pain for the last few months hopefully.
 
Toffee and Oreo said:
Just been to the vet, she’s got a tumor the size of a Brussel sprout on her bladder, so she only has a few months left, I’ve opted not to go for surgery, due to her age and how risky it is. Now just palliative care for the next few months, we’ve now giving her 0.6ml of metacam 2x daily as well as 0.05ml gabapenton, and if that’s not enough we are going to give paracetamol too. Feeling pretty devastated, but at least she won’t be pain for the last few months hopefully.
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BIG HUGS

I am so very sorry. I didn't think it was a cystitis flare you were dealing with but anything causing those symptoms would likely not be good news. :(

Please give yourself time to digest the shock and the upset. Be aware that the current storm of emotions marks both the shock and the onset of your grieving process. It is usually the second worst point bar the actual loss itself. Be kind with yourself.

Turn your girl's life clock back to zero and celebrate each day she is still here to greet as the special gift it is. Make it count with a little enrichment activity. Love transcends time. It doesn't matter so much how long or short the time left is; it matters what you make of it and how consciously you live it. Create a little picture diary folder you can fill all the precious memories you are creating and which will stay with you forever. You can still pack a lifetime's worth of fun and love into whatever time you have left, whether that is short or long. Don't fixate on months; 'today' and what you do with it is the only day that counts. This is how piggies measure their life by and we should learn from that because you cannot lose that way. :)

Re. painkillers: This is the lesson I have learned from my dad's three years battle with extremely painful terminal bone cancer: your girl won't be totally pain-free. Pain management is about keeping it tolerable but there are limits. Guinea pigs are wired to suppress symptoms to an amazing degree.
Please consider now how far you want to take her and stick with it because it won't get any easier when you come closer to the sharp end. Your current time frame may also not hold up to your expectations - these things are very unpredictable. Guinea pigs are small animals with a much faster metabolism when the chips are down and these two things turn against them.

That is why taking it day by day is so important. There is no tomorrow or a long line of tomorrows - there is only a chain of todays you don't know when it ends. But by living in the day you will create a chain full of beads instead of an empty string. ;)

I am never happy having to link in this guide here but you will hopefully find it helpful. It cannot take away your heartbreak but it can help you clear your head and make the best of what you have, for your beloved girl and for yourself.
If you do it right, you will find that you have actually done a lot of the grieving homework underneath it all and have a comparatively easier ride afterwards - the pain of the loss is individual and will never get any less. But you can make it much more bearable with a certain sense of peace and a blessed absence of some of the emotional mind traps that come with a sudden loss. ;)
Wiebke

Thread 'A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs'

1 Your mental health, sensitivities and work commitments
- Mental health and support resources
- Sensitivity aspects
- When work and other commitments clash
2 Life or death emergency – Can my piggy be saved?
- Contacting a vet clinic at all times and link to life and death emergencies list
- What to do if I cannot access vet care instantly?
- The need to save up for emergency vet access
3 Is my...
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My thoughts are with you.
 
I’m so very sorry. My Pepper was on palliative care recently and I said as soon as he wasn’t coming out for food that would be the sign it was time. I hope you have lots more days together. ❤️
 
Thanks for all the support, she seems to be doing well at the moment with the drugs. I’d say she’s 95% back to her normal self. I’ve had a few days to process it, and I think I’ve come to terms with it now. I’ve decided that once her pain meds she’s on at the moment don’t seem enough, and she still is in pain, will be the time to let her go, as I don’t want her to suffer just for me to have more time with her. This is such a lovely forum, and I’ll keep all of you updated with how she’s progressing ❤️
 
Please do we are all sending our support from here in Staffordshire someone is always around to listen 💐
 
Toffee and Oreo said:
Thanks for all the support, she seems to be doing well at the moment with the drugs. I’d say she’s 95% back to her normal self. I’ve had a few days to process it, and I think I’ve come to terms with it now. I’ve decided that once her pain meds she’s on at the moment don’t seem enough, and she still is in pain, will be the time to let her go, as I don’t want her to suffer just for me to have more time with her. This is such a lovely forum, and I’ll keep all of you updated with how she’s progressing ❤️
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We are here for you to talk about anything you feel conflicted or concerned about, or just because you need somebody to be there for you who understands.

Terminal care is such a strange time: it is like this sweet flute melody with glistening trills floating on top of a deep bass continuum as you cherish life with an intensity like never before whilst you are grieving all the time for its passing underneath it all. Everything is much more in focus but because of that it has a sense of unreality to it.

Be kind with yourself and look after your own mental hygiene and your own grounding. It's not something you can digest in a day or be fine with at the snap of finger; it is an ongoing process with its ups and downs.

But treasure the good times for as long as they last, day by day; and dance to the flute.
 
Hi everyone, it’s been a while since I posted and toffee is still alive miraculously, today though I noticed that she has quite noisy breathing, she is eating fine and seeming well, although she does have a little bit of a flare up going on at the moment. You can hear every breath she takes, and it’s almost crackly. Could this be signs of a URI, even though it’s only her breathing. And how urgent is this for a vet appointment? As I know they can go downhill quite fast with these types of things?
 
Glad to hear she has been doing well. I’d get her checked just in case. Good luck at the vets.
 
Toffee and Oreo said:
Hi everyone, it’s been a while since I posted and toffee is still alive miraculously, today though I noticed that she has quite noisy breathing, she is eating fine and seeming well, although she does have a little bit of a flare up going on at the moment. You can hear every breath she takes, and it’s almost crackly. Could this be signs of a URI, even though it’s only her breathing. And how urgent is this for a vet appointment? As I know they can go downhill quite fast with these types of things?
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Hi

In view of Toffee being so frail, I would have her vet checked sooner rather than later if the crackling/louder breathing persists in case it affects the lungs. It could be also caused by a fluid build up either in the lungs or the body cavity with the flare generating the extra pressure.

But well done for you for keeping Toffee going! ❤️
 
Hi all,
Sorry for not replying to the message above, but she was absolutely fine in the morning, not too sure what was going on,

However, she has taken a turn for the worse this past week, especially bad today, and I’m weighing up having her put down tomorrow if she is still to this level of bad. She’s down to 820g and usually 900-930ish healthy, and her ears are so much paler than normal. She’s still eating but definitely slower than normal, and quite fluffed up. I’ll attach a photo of how much ‘blood’ she’s lost today over 12h, which is quite scary. I was wondering how you guys know when’s the right time to let them go to sleep. Cause there’s the what if she gets over this period, and is fine for another couple months. But of course the main thing for me at the moment is making sure she’s not suffering, which I think she is at the moment, as even when I pick her up I get blood all over my hands, it’s honestly slowly dripping out of her, sorry for the tmi. But it’s awful, I feel so bad for her. She is 6.5 years old too, so she’s lived the majority of her life, which I think makes it easier to make the decision.

What would you guys do in this situation, I’ve never had to make this call before, it’s all rather new to me.

Also in the photo there is more on the back as it was slightly folded over when she was sitting on it
 

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I’m so sorry Toffee has taken another turn for the worse. I’ve had to make the decision to let much loved pets go. It’s such a hard decision to make but it’s made with pure love to end their suffering.

I’ll be thinking of you today. ❤️
 
If she has lost interest in eating and is hunched up and uncomfortable even when she is just sitting, her quality of life is not great. You are obviously thinking along these lines. There is the thought that she might pass quietly at home in familiar surroundings as she weakens. If she is whimpering or vocalising pain, I would ask my vet for guidance. She probably does not have long to go. It's very sad. If she likes being comforted you could try that, or she may just want to have you around where she can see you. You could try offering her Critical Care or mushed up pellets if she will take them. There are other experts on here who knows more than I do and will help you. I hope it all turns out peacefully, thinking of you ❤️
 
BIG HUGS

Could you remind us what painkillers she is on? Maxing them out and doubling the glucosamine for a few days to cap the peak of the flare is paramount. If she starts refusing food categorically, I would speak to the vet.
Please offer support feed (to replace the lacking hay intake) and water, as much as she is willing take but don't force it down in a guinea pig on terminal care. This will give you an instrument as to not forcing her to live longer than she feels well but to give her a chance to make it through this one if she still has the will to fight.

It is a fine line between giving your beloved one a last chance to make it through and watching them suffer or letting them go but it is one of those grey areas where there is no clear right or wrong. The decision rests fully on your shoulders, which makes it so totally tough for you. Your vet cannot make that decision for you, either; but if you ask politely as to their own opinion, they may give it. However, ultimately, it is always best to go with what is in your heart of hearts. Watching a beloved one suffer and in pain makes you feel so helpless, and that is one of the worst places for us to be in. :(

- A Practical and Sensitive Guide to Dying, Terminal Illness and Euthanasia in Guinea Pigs (See chapter terminal illness)

- All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

PS: Ear colour in guinea pigs is not indicative because they use the blood flow through especially the ears to regulate their body temperature. Pale ears simply means that she is not feeling hot; pale gums are much more an indicator of her not being well. However, you can offer her a half-heated snugglesafe (microwaveable pad) to see whether she likes the additional heat but always with giving her the option to move away if she feels overheated.

My thoughts are with you.
 
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Hi all,

We have made the decision to have her put down, as the tumour had become the size of a slightly smaller tennis ball, and because the vet said she had become very frail and wasn’t too optimistic. At least she is in a better place now, I feel like I’ve made the right decision.

Thanks to everyone for all the support
Xx
 
Toffee and Oreo said:
Hi all,

We have made the decision to have her put down, as the tumour had become the size of a slightly smaller tennis ball, and because the vet said she had become very frail and wasn’t too optimistic. At least she is in a better place now, I feel like I’ve made the right decision.

Thanks to everyone for all the support
Xx
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BIG HUGS

You are giving your precious girl the most loving and most heartbreaking gift we can make.

If it is any consolation to you, I would have also made the same decision in your place and have made it quite a few times with piggies of my own over the years. It gets never any less painful because each bond is unique and special. But you have not failed your little one in any way. We can never choose when and in which way the end comes but sometimes we have the choice to cut short any unnecessary suffering and speed up the tough part of the journey to the Bridge.

Be kind with yourself as you grieve but please don't feel bad; your decision has come from directly from your heart and from your wish to rather shoulder the emotional burden yourself instead of leaving your beloved one to struggle on to the Rainbow Bridge herself.

We are here for you in our new End of Life and Bereavement Corner whenever you would like to talk or have friendly some support through a knotty bit of the grieving process or any practical questions.
End of Life and Bereavement Support Corner
 
I’m so very sorry. Sending you massive hugs.

Popcorn pain free over the bridge gorgeous Toffee.
 
Toffee and Oreo said:
Hi all,

We have made the decision to have her put down, as the tumour had become the size of a slightly smaller tennis ball, and because the vet said she had become very frail and wasn’t too optimistic. At least she is in a better place now, I feel like I’ve made the right decision.

Thanks to everyone for all the support
Xx
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That is very sad. She is at peace now and climbing the rainbow bridge 🌈
 
I am so sorry you had to make this decision for your wonderful girl 😥
Popcorn happily sweetheart over The Rainbow Bridge 🌈
 
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