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this whole dangerous dogs argument is really winding me up!

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Dusty_bugs

Dusty_bugs

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I don't have dogs and have never been fortunate enough, but I've definitely had them around me growing up and if there's anything that was drilled into me it was that dog's have been brought into our world, but it doesn't make them human!

Radio two Jeremy Vine is having a 2-3 day benign argument about who's to blame, the breed or the owner, and I can't stop facepalming that:

a) all breeds are the same species. I wouldn't dare be the person to assume an asian person or an african person or a european person to have certain temperaments. Human personality is estimated at 40% genetic and 60% environment. And we still have our murderers, rapists and whatever else. You can't trust everyone to be the same no-matter where they are from. Same rule applies for pure breds and cross breeds.

b)We expect our animals to be too human friendly, if they're not they die. This whole sentiment makes me sick. If it isnt controllable or managable it needs to be destroyed. If it makes so much sense why don't we apply it to our own species? We dont kill people who abuse animals.

c)People aren't brought up to learn how the dog as a species works. How its brain ticks. How to provide it mental nourishment and most importantly how to play the pack-order game. People treat their dogs like human children and humanise their motivations. A waiting dog is a patient and kind dog - not a dog that doesnt understand what you are doing or is waiting for a cue to move. A dog that licks your face is kissing you - not trying to get food from you cos you're 'back from the hunt'.
Adult dogs aren't babies!

d) There are more staffie crosses in certain areas than in others. Incidences of high staffie attacks are probably located in areas where staffies are a status animal brought up by humans we can hardly class as model citizens. People whose kids go around scratching up cars, goading adults to buy them drinks and cigarettes, the girls praised for showing skin and the boys praised for brutality. If they bring up their children like pack animals how are they going to bring up a dog?

e) Dog's in packs revert to more instinctual mentalities. They finally have someone who talks their own language and plays by their rules. Without a definitive alpha human pack member they will make their own. That 14 year old girl with a meat pie might as well have walked into a wolf cage.

Staffie's shouldnt be banned! In the right hands they are as heart warming a species as any other. We bred them and it's our duty to treat them right!


Uh.. rant over.. sorry guys!
 
this sums up my opinions fully , well done :)
 
I think this bit from what you wrote is the real kicker for me.

c)People aren't brought up to learn how the dog as a species works. How its brain ticks. How to provide it mental nourishment and most importantly how to play the pack-order game. People treat their dogs like human children and humanise their motivations. A waiting dog is a patient and kind dog - not a dog that doesnt understand what you are doing or is waiting for a cue to move. A dog that licks your face is kissing you - not trying to get food from you cos you're 'back from the hunt'.
Adult dogs aren't babies!

I really do agree with you. I have always been scared of dogs after being bitten by a stray dog in Cyprus as a child. But huge dogs with massive teeth do not scare me if they are obeying their owner and see their owner as the alpha. Little dogs with small teeth scare me if their owners are behaving as though they are little hairy people. Because the little dog thinks it's the alpha and there is nothing the owner could say/do that would stop it biting me if it wanted too.

A dog is a dog is a dog, not a person.
 
I couldnt get through but in the Black Country they were always known as Nursery Dogs, saft mutts unless mistreated by criminal scum.
 
Could agree more.
There was a thing on face nook today that went like this:

'In the 70's the blamed dobermans,
In the 80's they blamed german shepherds
In the 90's they blamed rottweilers
Now they blame the pitbull.

When will they blame the HUMANS?!'

And that sums it up for me. I don't believe in bad dogs, nor bad breeds, but seeing as I have seen, I totallly belive in bad humans. And this is coming from someone who was badly bitten by a boxer dog as a kid. Didn't put me off dogs, didn't make me scared of dogs or my family's dogs. It made me realise you have to respect an animal as it will act as an animal, it's not a human nor does it communicate as one.
 
My favourite thing about this whole argument with dog breeds is the fact they go on about how since 2007 a whole 5 people have been killed in the uk by dogs.

How many people die from smoking every year ?

How many people are killed by drugs every year ?

How many people are killed by PEOPLE every year ?

And yet, a few dogs that aren't brought up properly and the whole breed suffers.
People choose to kill, people choose to take drugs, people choose to smoke and yet an animal doesn't choose to kill, it chooses to deffend and act naturally.

This is why i hate the news it only points out certain things they want you to know.
 
I love you guys. The voices of sense and reason. Yes, it's tragic a girl died but it's not the fault of the dogs. They are DOGS, not humans. Thank you all for putting your points across so well.
 
Couldn't agree more with the posts here. When I was 9, I was chased, pinned down and bitten by an alsation that I used to walk. Simple truth - I was smaller than the dog, I run away screaming when it growled, and it acted on instinct. I didn't act like I was its alpha, so it treated me as instinct told it to. Whilst I didn't like alsation's for a while out of recognition and fear (fine now and still adore dogs), I will never blame the dog for what it did. An animal is an animal, not a human. People assume that because dogs have been kept as pets for a while, they're entirely domestic and wouldn't hurt a fly. I'm around my boyfriends dog daily, he's good as gold and I know would never hurt me. He defends me even in arguments (he barks when I shout) and is a big softie, I love him to pieces. But I still know he's a dog, and he respects me because I treat him that way.
 
I do agree that people are to blame for dangerous dogs but something else that needs to be put out there is the idea that dogs are not wolves and alpha theory is terribly outdated. Sarah Whitehead's "Clever Dog" includes a nice overview of current theory drawing from "In Defence of Dogs" by John Bradshaw which covers the subject deeply and is more scientific as is "Dogs" by L & R Coppinger but all are worthwhile books to read if you want to know more about the evolution of dogs and their relationship with people. :)
 
allow me to put my answer this way. If in the highly unlikely event they ban staffies or other 'status dogs' they'll take/destroy my dogs over my dead body Dodge and Poppy are harmless
 
I'd feel the same way too.

The solution to so called dangerous dogs is surprisingly simple. Just ban idiots from breeding (and I'm talking about human idiots). Then there will only be sensible humans left who actually take responsibility for their pets and take the time and trouble to 'think like a dog'. Problem solved. However, all the time you're dealing with the idiot human element, you'll never legislate against dog attacks.
 
I completely agree with what you say about it being down to the owner and have nothing more to add to the debate. I just wanted to add that my thoughts are with the family of the poor girl who died.

Amy
x
 
I believe the parents of the dead babies are at fault for leaving their dog alone with a defencless child. Yes some dogs see it as a baby and are careful, but some may see them as a rival or a weak member... my mom never let our 'stronger willed' dog alone with me, but the other 'weaker' dog accepted me as alpha straight off apprantly.

I wish we could licence animals so that you had to gain a licence, e.g prove you can pay vet fees and such... more thought should go into this but it's just a idea really to stop the idiots getting their fighting and status dogs.
 
Hermes said:
I do agree that people are to blame for dangerous dogs but something else that needs to be put out there is the idea that dogs are not wolves and alpha theory is terribly outdated. Sarah Whitehead's "Clever Dog" includes a nice overview of current theory drawing from "In Defence of Dogs" by John Bradshaw which covers the subject deeply and is more scientific as is "Dogs" by L & R Coppinger but all are worthwhile books to read if you want to know more about the evolution of dogs and their relationship with people. :)
Click to expand...

I love reading around! I have my opinions but they are fluid, people should build on what they know! Thanks for this great input.

And also thanks to Amy for reminding me that the human loss in these stories shouldnt be understated!
 
For the record, I have my eyes on dobermans.. though my man says he wants a labrador because he thought his aunty kept one as a child and he has fond memories.

You should have seen his face when his mum said it was a spaniel! Laughed my boobs off then gave him a hug. Memory fail. Dreams, they were smashed.

Our first dog is going to be a rescue, I can feel it... but it may take us some time. I insist on visiting several rescues and reading up on the breeds they have in. I know I said up there that breed doesnt dictate likelihood to go into war-mode but I do believe that breeds were designed for working, some dogs need to hunt - with a high prey drive like spaniels, some dogs need to run and have massive staminas like huskys. I'd love to be involved in a canine sport (though probably not competatively) but I'd have to pick the right one that would give the dog the best chance of performing, challenged dogs feel valued and useful = happy.

I watched the best episode of Cesar Milan once where a pent up 'neurotic' looking dog (cant remember breed) was given the chance to herd sheep once or twice a week with the aid of a farmer chap. They were probably paying for herd training sessions or some such thing but the difference in the dog when it got back home. No more endless barking, no more pacing, no more chewed furniture. They were probably following a new structure in general which was more suitable for the dog but the results were immense.
 
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