2 Boars 2 Sows - How Did That Happen!

[Gary Brown]

Hi, I'm new to owning guinea pigs (we are talking week's new) and have been using your site as a very helpful source of information.

Our intention was to have 4 sows (They are 14 wks old siblings) ... as you can see by the tread title that turns out not to be the case ... I'll not bore you all with the background but lets just say the inept staff at the pet store have put me in a pickle (I'm sure you can fill in the gaps). I immediately separated them and hope we don't have any little surprises on the horizon.

I read the below from your FAQ's:

"It is also worth noting that two neutered boars living together with two sows does NOT work!"

I take it from this there is no hope I can happily keep my 2 boars and 2 sows in single herd. Though if you have a miracle cure(s) for this I'd love to know.

I also read you cannot keep the boars in proximity to the sows as the pheromones will cause fights.

I love them all dearly and absolutely want to keep them all if you can help or pass on experience to any or all of the below questions I'd be very grateful:

1. Is there a miracle cure to keeping the 4 together (Re-introduction after the Boars have been neutered to be done when they reach 6 mths)
2. How far apart do the boars need to be kept from the sows to ensure problems between the boars do not arise
3. Does the distance need maintained during separate playtime to keep my boars from fighting. (I assume so)
4. If the distance required to keep them apart is to large of my home is it possible to rotate the boars in with the females keeping the other male in a separate cage but close. If so how regular should the rotation be. I worry the bonding process will be constant or the displaced male will get depressed each time he's taken away.
5. Are there any other options I haven't thought of except adoption, which will be an absolute final resort.

Thank you all again for any advice you can give.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

1stly, welcome to the forum and I am sorry to hear that you have had these problems . You are obviously a very caring owner and I am sure you will get some very good advice from experienced forum members.

It would be very helpful if you could add your location to your profile or tell us in a post where you live - you don't have to give precise details - but UK /USA / Aus would be useful.

I am relieved to hear you have separated your boars and sows but you are right, 2 boars (neutered or not ) doesn't work in a herd with sows.

 

[Gary Brown]

1stly, welcome to the forum and I am sorry to hear that you have had these problems . You are obviously a very caring owner and I am sure you will get some very good advice from experienced forum members.

It would be very helpful if you could add your location to your profile or tell us in a post where you live - you don't have to give precise details - but UK /USA / Aus would be useful.

I am relieved to hear you have separated your boars and sows but you are right, 2 boars (neutered or not ) doesn't work in a herd with sows.

Hi PiggieOwner ... thank you for the kind welcome. I've updated my profile. To help the thread my location is London, UK.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

Trust me, you will get answers from experienced forum members soon

I will pm @Wiebke as she is a very reliable source of information

 

[Gary Brown]

Trust me, you will get answers from experienced forum members soon

I will pm @Wiebke as she is a very reliable source of information

That would be fantastic thanks.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

It isn't impossible to have two boars in with a group of sows, but plenty of space is key to success! I have a friend who currently has a group of two boars and four sows living very happily together.

I have groups and pairs of boars living together, in close proximity to sows, without any problem whatsoever.

 

[Deleted member 114675]

It isn't impossible to have two boars in with a group of sows, but plenty of space is key to success! I have a friend who currently has a group of two boars and four sows living very happily together.

I have groups and pairs of boars living together, in close proximity to sows, without any problem whatsoever.

I stand corrected

 

[Gary Brown]

It isn't impossible to have two boars in with a group of sows, but plenty of space is key to success! I have a friend who currently has a group of two boars and four sows living very happily together.

I have groups and pairs of boars living together, in close proximity to sows, without any problem whatsoever.

A ray of light ... thank you. I know there is no exact science but how much space would you estimate..I presently have a 6 Ft Chartwell Guinea Pig Hutch Length 1804mm X width 650mm X height = 1300mm.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I currently have four boars in a 6 ft x 2 ft hutch, but ideally I would like something bigger. I think you would need a minimum of 6ft x 3 ft really. I am seeing my friend tomorrow who started out with two boars and two sows together so will ask her what size hutch/cage she housed them in.

 

[Gary Brown]

I stand corrected

lol ...

I currently have four boars in a 6 ft x 2 ft hutch, but ideally I would like something bigger. I think you would need a minimum of 6ft x 3 ft really. I am seeing my friend tomorrow who started out with two boars and two sows together so will ask her what size hutch/cage she housed them in.

Brilliant thanks.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, I'm new to owning guinea pigs (we are talking week's new) and have been using your site as a very helpful source of information.

Our intention was to have 4 sows (They are 14 wks old siblings) ... as you can see by the tread title that turns out not to be the case ... I'll not bore you all with the background but lets just say the inept staff at the pet store have put me in a pickle (I'm sure you can fill in the gaps). I immediately separated them and hope we don't have any little surprises on the horizon.

I read the below from your FAQ's:

"It is also worth noting that two neutered boars living together with two sows does NOT work!"

I take it from this there is no hope I can happily keep my 2 boars and 2 sows in single herd. Though if you have a miracle cures for this I'd love to know.

I also read you cannot keep the boars in proximity to the sows as the pheromones will cause fights.

I love them all dearly and absolutely want to keep them all if you can help or pass on experience to any or all of the below questions I'd be very grateful:

1. Is there a miracle cure to keeping the 4 together (Re-introduction after the Boars have been neutered to be done when they reach 6 mths)
2. How far apart do the boars need to be kept from the sows to ensure problems between the boars do not arise
3. Does the distance need maintained during separate playtime to keep my boars from fighting. (I assume so)
4. If the distance required to keep them apart is to large of my home is it possible to rotate the boars in with the females keeping the other male in a separate cage but close. If so how regular should the rotation be. I worry the bonding process will be constant or the displaced male will get depressed each time he's taken away.
5. Are there any other options I haven't thought of except adoption, which will be an absolute final resort.

Thank you all again for any advice you can give.

Hi and welcome! I am very sorry for your pickle. It is just the kind of nightmare you are trying to avoid. Sadly, you are by far not the first one and won't be the last one. I would strongly complain to the pet shop.

1) Sadly, not necessarily a miracle - it can work with LOTS of space, but it very much depends on the character balance between the boars and you have to be prepared to separate if there are fights especially when the big teenage strike between 4-14 months old!
However, you are much mor likely to be stuck with a minimum of two groups for the time being as well as for the long term.
I would strongly recommend to keep the boars together for as long as possible and only consider neutering if there are fights and a fall-out, which usually happen about at the same time as they are old enough for neutering. You can then pair up each boy with one of your girls after a full 6 weeks post op wait (I have the surprise baby from a supposedly safe over 5 weeks rescue boar to prove that particular point!).
By the time your boars would be ready to join the girls, you should hopefully have an idea whether there are more piggies in the making or not.
2) Boars can ideally live above sows or if necessary next door with an opaque divider, but better on the other side of them room if they are on the same level. Ideally they are out of reach of female pheromones which drift downwards.
3) They can time share the play area provided that the boys always come first so they don't smell fresh sow scents. If possible, have separate gender fleeces which you can switch in between.
4) You cannot rotate your neutered boars and have to split up the girls for company. Each time you switch piggies around you break up their relationship and they have to re-establish the hierarchy and the group afresh. That goes completely against their instincts and is hugely upsetting for all piggies involved. That is one of the reason why many ex-breeder piggies are often traumatised.
5) Unfortunately, there is a good chance that one or both of your girls are pregnant, so I would not make any long term plans yet. You may need to accommodate more babies of either gender in the medium term that will throw any plans of yours up in the air depending on the number and gender distribution. You will find to very hard to let any pups go.

Please open a thread for your two girls in our pregnancy section for evaluation, questions and ongoing support in the coming weeks and keep everything concerning a pregnancy to that one thread so we can always refer back and have all the information together. Could you please provide us with names, information on how long you have had your piggies and the date when you separated in the opening post, so we can establish a time line for you. We have got detailed guides at the top of each section, incuding the pregnancy section, but you are always welcome to ask any questions that you have at any point.

I would recommend you to look at C&C cages in our housing section for more flexible set-ups that can cope with any kind of possible scenario and that can be extended or split at need. I use a cheap Ikea linnmon table (75x150cm) for the upper cage, which fits inside a 2x4 grid lower cage with good access and light for the lower level and is comfortably high up for the boys to not be disturbed by the girls.



(By the way, I have four neutered boars that each live with a number of sows in a steady group. They can live next to each other without problems. )

 

[Guinea Slave]

That set up is soooo cool!

 

[Gary Brown]

Thank you Wiebke for all the excellent info ... Babies ... oh my goodness ... that certainly wasn't part of the plan.
I'll best do some reading on pregnancy and open a thread!

At the very least it seems as though I can keep all the pigs ... had any real distance been required I would have had serious problems in achieving that.

BTW: I have a meeting with the store manager on saturday to voice my displeasure. I'll pack my boxing gloves

 

[Deleted member 114675]

Good luck with your meeting.

In the meantime, I would continue to have a good look at threads on this forum. Now is the right time to consider all your options...

 

[Treacle]

I kept 2 neutered boars who were brothers with their sister and mother for years, they had loads of space in a huge run, with a solid roof in the garden. I only ever had problems with two neutered boars once, years later, who were purchased separately and put with the females, despite the size of the run they did not like each other. As my previous boars had been bonded by being together since birth, I did not realise way back then, I needed to bond these two, but I don't think they would have bonded anyway, so I just split the run in half. Each had his girls, and never the twine met, and lived long an happy lives.