2 bonded girl pigs, one just recently started bullying the other

Piper&Kierstein

Piper&Kierstein

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Hello all, it has been quite a while since I posted but I have run into quite an issue. Piper and Kiersten were 2 bonded females that have been a great pair since I got them a couple of years ago. Last Friday, I noticed that one of my girls (Kiersten) was having a coughing and sneezing fits. I rushed her to the vet to find she had a URI. I was told to keep the 2 pigs separated until I was done with the last dose of one of the medications. I kept Kiersten in the loft section of the cage as she recovered. After recovering (3 days) I put her back into the main cage with Piper but some serious dynamic started happening. Piper started bullying Kiersten. Not letting her eat her pellets or hay and just being overall aggressive. All throughout the night I heard Kiersten in distress and pulled her out quite a few times to comfort her. I am not sure what to do here as when they are separated neither of them will eat like they are in a depression but now that they are back together, Piper is being increasingly aggressive. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

I should also note that Piper hasn't given Kiersten any injuries just chasing her around the cage and a lot of teeth chattering. I have seen Kiersten go up to the loft where there is hay up there and Piper will literally run after her and teeth chatter.
 
Sadly being told to separate them was bad advice. Separating them for medical grounds can mean they won't go back together again after. Plus there isn't a medical need to. Whatever bacteria one piggy is carrying, the other one had already been exposed to while they were living together so separating them doesn't do anything to prevent the spread of the illness and instead can just cause stress to them both. The other piggy with a functioning immune system stands every chance of never catching the same URI so we do not recommend separating them for a URI.

Also, when reintroducing what you cannot do is just put one back into the main cage. Their reintroduction needs to be done on neutral territory and then they can be transferred back to the cage once the neutral territory reintroduction has gone well. Simply putting one piggy back Ito the cage will cause it to be seen as a territory invasion.

I would do this now - put them both into a neutral territory pen and leave them there for several hours to reestablish their relationship. You are going to see dominance behaviours during this time though.
If things go well, then clean down the cage and rearrange it and they can then move back into the cage together. If you hear a high pitched squealing it doesn't mean distress, it is most likely submission squealing which is normal and what you want to hear. It is literally one piggy saying that she is no threat to the other.
If things do not go well, then it will be quite clear quite quickly and they will need to remain separate. If this happens, then separated piggies must be kept side by side (not one upstairs and one downstairs) so they can still interact through the bars.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Bonds In Trouble
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
 
Piggies&buns said:
Sadly being told to separate them was bad advice. Separating them for medical grounds can mean they won't go back together again after. Plus there isn't a medical need to. Whatever bacteria one piggy is carrying, the other one had already been exposed to while they were living together so separating them doesn't do anything to prevent the spread of the illness and instead can just cause stress to them both. The other piggy with a functioning immune system stands every chance of never catching the same URI so we do not recommend separating them for a URI.

Also, when reintroducing what you cannot do is just put one back into the main cage. Their reintroduction needs to be done on neutral territory and then they can be transferred back to the cage once the neutral territory reintroduction has gone well. Simply putting one piggy back Ito the cage will cause it to be seen as a territory invasion.

I would do this now - put them both into a neutral territory pen and leave them there for several hours to reestablish their relationship. You are going to see dominance behaviours during this time though.
If things go well, then clean down the cage and rearrange it and they can then move back into the cage together. If you hear a high pitched squealing it doesn't mean distress, it is most likely submission squealing which is normal and what you want to hear. It is literally one piggy saying that she is no threat to the other.
If things do not go well, then it will be quite clear quite quickly and they will need to remain separate. If this happens, then separated piggies must be kept side by side (not one upstairs and one downstairs) so they can still interact through the bars.

Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics
Bonds In Trouble
Dominance Behaviours In Guinea Pigs
Sows: Behaviour and female health problems (including ovarian cysts)
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Dang...I didn't know that...yeah, I was just following vet orders. I guess they weren't too experienced. Thanks for the advice. I have a playpen, do you think that would be a good start as neutral ground for them? Should I put any hides in the neutral grounding place? Should I keep food in there?
 
Piper&Kierstein said:
Dang...I didn't know that...yeah, I was just following vet orders. I guess they weren't too experienced. Thanks for the advice. I have a playpen, do you think that would be a good start as neutral ground for them? Should I put any hides in the neutral grounding place? Should I keep food in there?
Click to expand...

Sadly a lot of vets underestimate the importance of companionship and the detrimental effects separating bonded piggies can have.

If the playpen doesn't form part of their normal territory then it is fine. If not, then the bathroom floor will do - just somewhere that neither of them normally go.

The 'bonding and interaction' guide I linked in explains how to carry out the bonding process. There must be no hides in a bonding pen, only a pile of hay and some water. Do read the guide before you start.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Sadly a lot of vets underestimate the importance of companionship and the detrimental effects separating bonded piggies can have.

If the playpen doesn't form part of their normal territory then it is fine. If not, then the bathroom floor will do - just somewhere that neither of them normally go.

The 'bonding and interaction' guide I linked in explains how to carry out the bonding process. There must be no hides in a bonding pen, only a pile of hay and some water. Do read the guide before you start.
Click to expand...
Great! Thanks so much for the advice!
 
Just one more thing on a health front, what antibiotic was she given for the URI and how long was the course? Its just you mention three days and I wonder if that was the course or just how long it was before she appeared better - it may simply be me misunderstanding! I would be surprised if that was a long enough course to cure a diagnosed URI - antibiotics take three or four days to start working and antibiotic courses for URI are usually 10 days.
 
Piggies&buns said:
Just one more thing on a health front, what antibiotic was she given for the URI and how long was the course? Its just you mention three days and I would be surprised if that was a long enough course to cure a diagnosed URI - antibiotic courses for URI are usually 10 days.
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She was given Baytril and Metacam. She is still currently on the Baytril the vet said that she needed the baytril for 7 days twice a day. He said after 3 days of the Metcam and Baytril and improvement in health she could join back with Piper. But she is still currently on Baytril until Thursday morning.
 
Piper&Kierstein said:
She was given Baytril and Metacam. She is still currently on the Baytril the vet said that she needed the baytril for 7 days twice a day. He said after 3 days of the Metcam and Baytril and improvement in health she could join back with Piper. But she is still currently on Baytril until Thursday morning.
Click to expand...

Ah right, I see!
 
Piggies&buns said:
Ah right, I see!
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I have followed your post and its been about an hour thus far. I put them in a neutral spaces with no hidies, some hay and water. Only put down some romaine lettuce for extra comfort. Piper has given a couple of lunges at Kierstein but nothing that actually hurt her. They have both felt comfortable cleaning in front of each other. Piper is the only one who smells bums though. Kierstein doesn't seem too interested. Piper has also done this thing where she ever so slightly takes her nose against Kiersteins cheek and there are no noise or anything. But then after being in there a little while longer Piper will again lunge at her and teeth chatter...is this normal bonding?
 
Piggies&buns said:
Excellent!
Make sure you clean down their cage, replace all the bedding and rearrange it before you put them back in
Click to expand...
I cleaned the cage while they were laying down next to each other. They are now back in the cage and very happy! Everything is back to normal! thanks so much for the advice <3
 
Wow I’m glad they made friends again. I took my piggie to the vet by herself last week, so she was gone about an hour and no problem. Does anyone know how long they can be gone before this kind of problem happens?
 
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