3 Weeks Of Antibiotic And Still Blood In Urine

[Aga]

Hello

My guinea pig on 9 January started have blood in urine (quite a lot). I took her to vet, and she got injections of Enrotron (Enrofloxacin). Then after seven, ten, fourteen, and now 21 days had her urine tested. At the beginning there were leucocytes and proteins, but two last tests showed nothing apart from blood. The amount of blood was changeable 50 microgram/militr, 250 microgram /militr and later again 50 and today 250. Guinea pig got better after first two doses of antibiotic. If it had not been blood in the urine, one would say she is perectly healthy. No squeaking during pooing or peeing, great apetite. My vet does not have equipment for Xray or ultrasound (I would have to travel really long distance for this so it's almost impossible to do it). But the vet does not really know now what to do. She stopped injections and gave me glucosamine. Guinea pig is one year and 4 months old, she is female. Please advise

 

[sport_billy]

Hello

Welcome to the forum

Enrofloxacin I believe is Baytril in UK (Bactrim in the US) Guinea Lynx :: Antibiotics

I would advise discussing with the vet to try another antibiotic called Septrin if there is no improvement (Bactrim in the US) Guinea Lynx :: Antibiotics if there is no improvement There are a few antibiotics that are safe for guinea pigs so you need to be careful what is being prescribed and make sure your vet is fully aware of cavy safe medicines. Septrin comes in liquid form and can be given via mouth at home, it is banana flavoured in the UK and piggies tend to like the taste.

Was she squeaking when it first started? It could be a stubborn infection or possibly stones however I would expect crying when weeing with stones. Without any imaging it wouldn't be possible to tell. It is hopefully a stubborn infection or cystitis. Glucosamine has been used for piggies with cystitis so that is why the vet is prescribing it to help with any inflamation

 

[Aga]

The squeking has probably started several days before I noticed the blood but the pig did it really quietly - it was almost impossible to hear it. It is only now after the blood episode that I think that maybe she squeked a bit.... But I haven't heard that since the first dose of antibiotic. I forgot to tell that in November she also had some blood in the urine but recovered after 10 doses of Enrotron (no blood in urine). I really cannot do xray to her because no vet here has adequate equipment for such small animal.
As the vet stopped Enrofloxacin now, do you think I should come back there and ask him for Bactrim? (I suggested it earlier but the vet said that this antibiotic is good for respiratory or diarrhea problems beacuse it is not filtrated by kidneys and she needs something that is filtrated by kidneys). I really want help her but unfortunately in my location there are almost no wets who are experienced with bladder problems at guinea pig
Today is the first day of glucosamine. After how many days should I test the urine and hopefully there would be no blood? The vet suggested two weeks..... (but I am afraid that without antibiotics the blood problem would be bigger again - now the blood is traced only by the vet's machine. By the way, the urine was only tested on some equipment for fast testing (not in the laboratory) - it is vetlab ua analyzer IDEXX VetLab UA Analyzer | IDEXX Veterinary Diagnostics
Do you think that the machine could make some errors? Because it's a bit strange that it shows erythrocytes 50, 250, 50, 250, 50 microgram/militer for the last two weeks. It's really hard to believe that there could be something wrong with her bladder because she is very active and happy as usual - maybe a bit angry because I have changed her pellets to 0.5 calcium and she does not like them

 

[sport_billy]

Baytril is a go to antibiotic for piggies and the only licenced antibiotic in the UK for piggies, everything else is off licence to my knowledge and you have to sign a form, it is used for all infections and we have had success with it in the past. Our vet always goes for bactrim/septrin for anything bladder related.

Some piggies are prone to bladder problems. We had a piggy who had blood in her urine but had no infection it was caused by cystitis and there were no stones or infection present. She was on metacam daily for a year to help with the inflamation.

I don't know anything about diagnostics machines i am afraid

Are you based in Poland? Your IP suggests you are..

tagging in our medical bods @Wiebke @Adelle @helen105281 for ideas

 

[Aga]

Yes, I am from Poland, from Bielsko-Biała - small city close to the mountains.

 

[Tiamolly123]

Welcome, hope you find all the threads, informative. If you are stuck there's always someone to help you out.

 

[Wiebke]

Yes, I am from Poland, from Bielsko-Biała - small city close to the mountains.

HI and welcome

Can you please add your country to your details, so we can take that into consideration when advising. click on your username on the top bar, then go to personal details and scroll down to location. This makes it appear underneath your username in every post you make. Thank you!

There are several issues with pretty much the same symptoms that can be in play:
- UTI (bacterial urinary tract infection); this is the most frequent and should react to 2-3 weeks baytril or 3-4 weeks of septrin/sulfatrim/bactrim
- cystitis: inflammation of the bladder walls; they harden noticeably. Reacts better to anti-inflammatories like metacam or to an mixed antibiotic/anti-inflammatory approach.
- interstitial cystitis (IC): regularly curring or constant cystitis that does not react to antibiotics. This condition can currently only be managed with anti-inflammatories and diet. It usually goes away by itself, but we are talking years rather than months.
- bladder stones, bladder sludge, urethral stones or (rarely) kidney stones: if your guinea pig is not reacting to an antibiotic and symptoms are not going down, you need a scan to determine whether there is a stone in play. The only way is an operation and some dietary and supportive measures afterwards to minimise the risk of a return; we can advise you on that depending on the disagnosis.

I would strongly advise you to please see your vet and have a scan done to determine whether you are dealing with stones or rather a cystitis and then take it from there. Please weigh your guinea pig daily at the same time instead of the regular weekly weigh to check its food intake. Up to 80% of the food intake is hay, which you cannot control, but which is usually the first food group that is being dropped when a guinea pig is in discomfort.

Guinea Lynx :: UTI
Guinea Lynx :: Bladder Stones
Tips For Post-operative Care

 

[Aga]

I have added the details. My guinea pig is certainly not losing her weight - in fact she is a bit fat now because I fed her high protein pellets (I didn't realise it - it was Beaphar Care+). Now I give her JR Farm Grainless Complete. But of course I will weigh her.

 

[Aga]

One more question (assuming that x-ray is pointless because I don't decide on the operation - there are no vets who are experience enough with piggies). She is perfectly healthy, happy, eating a lot, not losing her weight, no squeking during peeing or pooing, not showing any symptoms of pain or illness (despite long therapy of antibiotics - more than three weeks of injections!). The only problem is tiny trace of blood on strip tests (it is not visible by eye). Could that be that the infection was so serious (lots of blood in urine, she was peeing in blood and clots) that it will take longer for her bladder to recover and stop bleeding at all? In fact first three doses of antibiotic helped her and the remaining 18 doses were given to her just because of this trace of blood. She takes now Polish Urovit UrinoVet Cat Twist Off – VetExpert
Maybe you know some other better glucosamine that I can buy in Poland for her? Vet ordered to give her half of capsule daily - I am not sure if it is enough (it's probaby 50mg per capsule)

 

[Wiebke]

One more question (assuming that x-ray is pointless because I don't decide on the operation - there are no vets who are experience enough with piggies). She is perfectly healthy, happy, eating a lot, not losing her weight, no squeking during peeing or pooing, not showing any symptoms of pain or illness (despite long therapy of antibiotics - more than three weeks of injections!). The only problem is tiny trace of blood on strip tests (it is not visible by eye). Could that be that the infection was so serious (lots of blood in urine, she was peeing in blood and clots) that it will take longer for her bladder to recover and stop bleeding at all? In fact first three doses of antibiotic helped her and the remaining 18 doses were given to her just because of this trace of blood. She takes now Polish Urovit UrinoVet Cat Twist Off – VetExpert
Maybe you know some other better glucosamine that I can buy in Poland for her? Vet ordered to give her half of capsule daily - I am not sure if it is enough (it's probaby 50mg per capsule)

Hi! The amount of your cat glucosamine supplement sounds about comparable to the cat supplements that are used for bladder piggies here; I would expect a similar amount of glucosamine in each capsule compared to the filler ingredient.

If you are unlucky, it may be that your piggy has got interstitial cystitis; this can be characterised by persistent traces of blood in the urine that do not react to any antibiotic, but only occasionally more acute phases. I would strongly recommend to do the whole course of sulfatrim and then see where you stand. Some diagnoses, like IC, you only arrive at by a process of elimination.

What I would also recommend is to change the diet in order to remove any high calcium foods, but also any trigger foods for IC, so it stays in the mild range as it is at the moment even if you cannot get rid of it completely for a longer time.
- filter your water; even minerals in soft water can contribute to the build up of stones. It can really make a difference.
- switch to grain-free calcium-free pellets. Can you get Versele Laga in Poland?
- For a balanced daily veg diet, feeding the following every day twice: 1 slice of pepper, 1 slice of cucumber, 1 chunk of celery stick, 1 green bean, 1 strip of greens or spring greens (for the magnesium; if you cannot get milder spring greens, feed 1 strip of cabbage every day or two instead), 1 sprig of fresh coriander (if you can't get that, give 1 sprig of parsley only every two days; it is much stronger). You can see a picture of a sample diet in our diet guide, but you need to leave out any lettuce, any root veg, any fruit, high calcium veg like spinach, kale, broccoli and also be careful when feeding grass or dandelion.
For the long term balance, you need to feed a little cabbage; magnesium is not added to pellets and only found in calcium rich veg. Greens are the mildest of these. Any diet is always a compromise between various needs.
Recommendations For A Balanced General Guinea Pig Diet

PS: If there really was a stone (with a soft bladder, there is no evidence of a large one), the good thing about a bladder operation in sows is that it is a comparatively straight forward operation with very good recovery chances compared to other operations. I've never lost one of my sows from a bladder stone op, even in the olden days when guinea pigs didn't feature high on our general vets' knowledge here, either, and piggy savvy vets were far and few in between! The new generation of Polish vet is hopefully going to change that.

 

[Claire W]

Hello and welcome.

I am having the exact same problem with my two sows. One of them, Emma, has been like this for well over 18 months now. Ellen had been like it for the last few months.

Antibiotics seem to help in the short term but the blood still comes back in traces.

Emma was eventually diagnosed with IC (as mentioned above) and we are still waiting to see whether Ellen will be too.

Emma has a dose of Cystease daily (similar to the glucosamine) and we are currently trying Ellen with it to see if it makes any difference for her.

However, both my girls did have X-rays and ultrasound scans first to rule out stones and reproductive problems before any other diagnosis was made.

I'm afraid I have no other advise to add to what has already been given.

All the best for your piggy. I understand your worry frustration x

 

[Aga]

Thank you very much for so precious advice! I have some question about cucumber - now it's winter and I am a bit afraid of pestcides etc. in veggies from supermarket. Do you think such cumcumber would be safe? As for cabbage - which type do you mean because there are so many of them... Maybe Latin name or photo? The same goes for "greens or spring greens" - they are not common in Poland I am afraid so maybe some other veggie with similar composition?

 

[Wiebke]

Spring greens are cultivars of the acephala group (i.e. loose leaved cabbages) in the brassica oleracea. Collard greens or kale (which is much stronger) are relatives. If you want to give kale, only do a small amount.
This chart here may help you work out what you can get locally and in which amount you want to give it in comparison.
Guinea Lynx :: Nutrition Charts

 

[Aga]

And about the antibiotic - we also have Bactrim here in Poland, although the vet is reluctant to prescribe this (she says that it will not help because it is mainly for respiratory problems). Do you think that maybe I should change the vet and look for another who will prescribe Bactrim? If yes, should I do this now (I could make appointment on Monday) or wait until some symptoms appear (such as visible blood in urine or squeaking)? Bactrim is given orally, yes? Will it cause any digestive problems or problems with poos, apetite, etc.? Guinea pig was perfectly fine on Enrotron but it was in injections...

 

[helen105281]

I have always been told that Bactrim/Septrin is effective for urinary tract infections so I would see if you can get it prescribed. It is usually well tolerated, more so than Baytril. However, if she is symptom free at the moment you could wait until she actually needs it. Maybe do some investigation in the meantime to find a vet that will prescribe it.

 

[Aga]

A small update: my guinea pig eats a lot, her weight doesn't change, she's cheerful etc. but sometimes squeeks when peeing (not when pooping). I went to vet and she did urine test. Everything is ok apart from this blood (not visible but still there is...) As there were no leukocytes, proteins etc. she decided not to give her antibiotic but gave me the prescription for Bactrim (I finally managed to convince her), just in case. When should I give it to my piggie? Once she feels really bad? Should I do some urine test before?