4.5 year Male Abyssian , Acute Ill, Bladder Stone Found On Ultrasound, Uti, Blood In Urine

[GP MOM]

We are not great in FLA with minimal exotic pet vets, I am meeting with one Monday that over sees our local Brevard county zoo
He is on critical care, won't drink so syringe feed water, staying up round the clock as we know they dive down quick..he is on baytril 1 ml 2 x a day and a pain medication 2 x a day
His pellet poop size is good but 1/2 Normal,size
He Normal weight 3 lb 6 oz, he is now 2 lb 9 oz and stable...
Antibiotics started Sunday night , one dose, still see blood in urine? He is stable but I'm scared..
Lost two 5.5 year old males last year, one, bowel,issue and other brain aneurysm/stoke
My husband and I both medical but for humans
Any experience advice appreciated and probiotics, I take his healthy cage mates poop and add to critical care?
Thanks! I love these cavies like my kids! First time post ever

 

[Cavy Kung-Fu]

Welcome to the forum! Sorry to see it's not a happy note that's brought you here.

2mls of baytril a day sounds awfully high, are you sure that's right? We do grams here in the UK so that's about 1162grams? My piggy Tonks is around 1050 and she was only having 0.8mls a day.

What pain meds is he on & what kind of dosage? It can be handy to know the details for when other people come on to help

My boy is really poorly right now with something different, he's in antibiotics, pain killers, critical care & probiotics as well as other bits so I know what you're going through.

Did you vet mention checking for stones/sludge at all?

Hope he gets better soon!

 

[DM030819]

You can add healthy poops to the critical care as probiotic @GP MOM .

The blood in the urine will likely continue until the bladder stone is surgically removed. They're very spiky shaped so it will be aggravating his bladder walls and causing the blood.

 

[GP MOM]

Got it, now my search for a dr to do it here in FL
Meantime we are giving him 24 hr care
Taking in urine sample tomorrow, the one I took Sunday the lab turned down Monday, a day old

 

[Lady Kelly]

Here is the guinea lynx page for recommended vets in FL. Bear in mind its over a year old so vets could have moved.retired etc Veterinarians: Florida - Guinea Lynx Records

 

[GP MOM]

Welcome to the forum! Sorry to see it's not a happy note that's brought you here.

2mls of baytril a day sounds awfully high, are you sure that's right? We do grams here in the UK so that's about 1162grams? My piggy Tonks is around 1050 and she was only having 0.8mls a day.

What pain meds is he on & what kind of dosage? It can be handy to know the details for when other people come on to help

My boy is really poorly right now with something different, he's in antibiotics, pain killers, critical care & probiotics as well as other bits so I know what you're going through.

Did you vet mention checking for stones/sludge at all?

Hope he gets better soon!

Thanks so much
Yes he has a 7x5 mm bladder stone seen on ultrasound 6/24
.1 ml of Baytril
Pain med . 1 of buprenorphine 2 x a day, am and pm
That makes him more normal, eat his lettuce w his brother , on critical care, syringe feeding water, pure cranberry juice, sorry, my mistake on ml it's .1
We are so scared for,surgury, read where one person maintained their pet for 3 years on antibiotics with stones..all I know is the 24 hr care brutal and we all work, college students yet we also know we are keeping him alive. I'll do anything but surgury only with a great surgeon great at this procedure!

 

[GP MOM]

Here is the guinea lynx page for recommended vets in FL. Bear in mind its over a year old so vets could have moved.retired etc Veterinarians: Florida - Guinea Lynx Records

Thank you! Seeing a specialist Monday for recommendations
24 hr care rough on all, my husband and I medical professional, have one college student at home helping a lot.. I took,next week off!

 

[Lady Kelly]

Thank you! Seeing a specialist Monday for recommendations
24 hr care rough on all, my husband and I medical professional, have one college student at home helping a lot.. I took,next week off!

I know what you mean. I had a very ill piggy starting with an abscess that ballooned on Christmas eve. She finally passed away at the end of Feb after a couple of months of ongoing problems, various health issues, lots of medicating and lots of syringe feeding. The day she passed I was on my own for the week as my partner was working away. I had been syringe feeding several times in the morning, coming home and syringe feeding every couple of hours while trying to feed myself in between. After she passed I struggled to wake up the next day, I don't think anyone realises how physically and mentally exhausting it is until it stops so you most definitely have my sympathy with this and I hope your piggy is feeling better soon

 

[Wiebke]

We are not great in FLA with minimal exotic pet vets, I am meeting with one Monday that over sees our local Brevard county zoo
He is on critical care, won't drink so syringe feed water, staying up round the clock as we know they dive down quick..he is on baytril 1 ml 2 x a day and a pain medication 2 x a day
His pellet poop size is good but 1/2 Normal,size
He Normal weight 3 lb 6 oz, he is now 2 lb 9 oz and stable...
Antibiotics started Sunday night , one dose, still see blood in urine? He is stable but I'm scared..
Lost two 5.5 year old males last year, one, bowel,issue and other brain aneurysm/stoke
My husband and I both medical but for humans
Any experience advice appreciated and probiotics, I take his healthy cage mates poop and add to critical care?
Thanks! I love these cavies like my kids! First time post ever

Hi and welcome

If you want to give poo soup in addition to any probiotics, please soak a few fresh poos from a healthy companion in a little water and then syringe the water; even in the not redigested poos, there is fibre and gut bacteria. Do NOT add poos directly to any syringe feed!
Of probiotics, you can give a pinch either 1 hour before the baytril (US recommendation) or 1-2 hours after the baytril (UK recommendation). Any brand will do.
Please follow the recommendations in our syringe feeding guide. Give your boy as much water as he will take.
You can find all the information on how much and how often to feed, as well as probiotics, poo soup etc. in our syringe feeding guide: Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

It usually takes 2-3 days for an antibiotic to kick in fully; however, depending on the size and where the stone sits, the irritation and the damage to the bladder/urine tract walls will cause any bleeding to continue. Boars have got an inglenook in their urethra where stones that have passed down from the bladder often fetch up. Considering the loss of appetite/amount your boy is in, your only option is unfortunately to operate; the stone is clearly not coming out on its own and it is somewhere that is causing a lot of pain.
Tips For Post-operative Care


All the best and fingers very firmly crossed! We can give you tip on diet and long term care for bladder stone piggies once the stone is out and your boy is on his way to a good recovery, so you can minimise the risk of a recurring stone. Guinea pigs have a highly alkaline urine and are therefore prone to urinary tract problems, but it is not quite as straight forward as simply cutting out all calcium from a diet.

 

[Flutterby]

Hello and welcome. Sending healing vibes for your little one x

 

[GP MOM]

Hi and welcome

If you want to give poo soup in addition to any probiotics, please soak a few fresh poos from a healthy companion in a little water and then syringe the water; even in the not redigested poos, there is fibre and gut bacteria. Do NOT add poos directly to any syringe feed!
Of probiotics, you can give a pinch either 1 hour before the baytril (US recommendation) or 1-2 hours after the baytril (UK recommendation). Any brand will do.
Please follow the recommendations in our syringe feeding guide. Give your boy as much water as he will take.
You can find all the information on how much and how often to feed, as well as probiotics, poo soup etc. in our syringe feeding guide: Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

It usually takes 2-3 days for an antibiotic to kick in fully; however, depending on the size and where the stone sits, the irritation and the damage to the bladder/urine tract walls will cause any bleeding to continue. Boars have got an inglenook in their urethra where stones that have passed down from the bladder often fetch up. Considering the loss of appetite/amount your boy is in, your only option is unfortunately to operate; the stone is clearly not coming out on its own and it is somewhere that is causing a lot of pain.
Tips For Post-operative Care


All the best and fingers very firmly crossed! We can give you tip on diet and long term care for bladder stone piggies once the stone is out and your boy is on his way to a good recovery, so you can minimise the risk of a recurring stone. Guinea pigs have a highly alkaline urine and are therefore prone to urinary tract problems, but it is not quite as straight forward as simply cutting out all calcium from a diet.

Ok, I did take one 1/2 poo from is cagemate, soaked it, mashed it and mixed in with his critical care
We are scared to death to put Mac thru surgury, do they make it thru the anesthesia?
On on blog someone maintained their cavy on antibiotics for 3 years!
We will keep this guy going and then meet the exotic specialist Monday at 9...
thanks sooooo much for all help, prayers for our lil Mac..

 

[Wiebke]

Ok, I did take one 1/2 poo from is cagemate, soaked it, mashed it and mixed in with his critical care
We are scared to death to put Mac thru surgury, do they make it thru the anesthesia?
On on blog someone maintained their cavy on antibiotics for 3 years!
We will keep this guy going and then meet the exotic specialist Monday at 9...
thanks sooooo much for all help, prayers for our lil Mac..

I have had several older guinea pigs than yours put through major surgery (bladder and spaying) and they have survived just fine! Just in May I had a 5 year old spayed because of large ovarian cysts and a 6 year old operated for an infected cyst removal. They are both perfectly fine and ready to go on for a goodly while longer.

Sorry to say, but when the pain is so bad that your piggy is not eating, then he IS suffering, and suffering badly! Do you know just how painful bladder stones are, especially when they become embedded in the bladder wall or the wall of the urethra? Even all the syringe feeding and maximum long term painkiller is not going to do the trick; and certainly not any antibiotic!

One of the sows I had operated some years ago had a massive rabbit sized "silent" (i.e. symptom-free) bladder stone until she went suddenly downhill. Even despite syringe feeding round the clock, she went from 700g on the Friday to 540g on the operation table on the Monday, which was the earliest spot I could book her for. Ceri did survive her operation and was back to 700g within two weeks, just from the sheer absence of pain; no syringe feeding needed after the first two days. She was the same age as your boy is now.
A piggy can even survive multiple bladder stone operations, depending on where the stone sits and how bad the bladder trauma is.

PLEASE give your boy a chance with an operation; what you are doing now is going to lead to slower, surer and more painful death than any operation would give him. We have had enough forum members in your position that have dithered too long because they were - like you - too afraid to make a decision, and then very quickly lost their piggies anyway as their little bodies just couldn't cope any longer. Your current treatment is unfortunately simply not adequate as it doesn't not address the cause of the problem, and is not going to save him even in the short to medium, never mind the longer term.

Any operation is a jump over the cliff - but personally I have found it much easier to live with in the longer term to jump myself than watching a piggy in my care slide over the edge because I was dithering for too long. The inevitable feelings of guilt were a lot worse than those when one of my piggies didn't make it through an emergency operation. At least in the second case I have given them a chance to live and spared them an agonising death. There is sadly no easy way out once you are playing in the big league of health problems, and larger bladder stones unfortunately play there.

We have got a recommended UK vets locator on the top bar. Guinea Pig Vet Locator
Here is a link to recommended vets in some other countries: Guinea Lynx :: GL's Vet List

@Jaycey @Freela @Elwickcavies

 

[DM030819]

@GP MOM I agree with Wiebke. Bladder stones are really painful and need to be dealt with as soon as you can.

For example I had a boar with arthritis. He was struggling to walk so we went to the vet and had Metacam prescribed. Within a few days he was much better and on occasion even ran around.

The same pig had 2 bladder stone surgeries (and survived both fine). About 4 months after the first I was certain something was wrong. He was crying when peeing, went off his food a bit and was chewing on everything in sight. I thought it was another stone but my vet didn't agree.

We put the little guy on antibiotics and 2 painkillers, Metacam AND Tramadol. And it made no difference. He was very unhappy and chewed everything he could. I demanded an xray and there was a stone. That shows how painful a stone must be.

The reason that I put him through surgery twice and would always do the same with bladder stones and boars is the unknown. At any point the stone could become stuck and prevent urine passing. And that can kill. I hate to think that could happen when I'm out or not able to get him to the vet in time.

I prefer to deal with the known. Surgery is scary but if I use a good vet I can give him the best chances of survival and be there for him when he wakes up and look after him.

 

[GP MOM]

@GP MOM I agree with Wiebke. Bladder stones are really painful and need to be dealt with as soon as you can.

For example I had a boar with arthritis. He was struggling to walk so we went to the vet and had Metacam prescribed. Within a few days he was much better and on occasion even ran around.

The same pig had 2 bladder stone surgeries (and survived both fine). About 4 months after the first I was certain something was wrong. He was crying when peeing, went off his food a bit and was chewing on everything in sight. I thought it was another stone but my vet didn't agree.

We put the little guy on antibiotics and 2 painkillers, Metacam AND Tramadol. And it made no difference. He was very unhappy and chewed everything he could. I demanded an xray and there was a stone. That shows how painful a stone must be.

The reason that I put him through surgery twice and would always do the same with bladder stones and boars is the unknown. At any point the stone could become stuck and prevent urine passing. And that can kill. I hate to think that could happen when I'm out or not able to get him to the vet in time.

I prefer to deal with the known. Surgery is scary but if I use a good vet I can give him the best chances of survival and be there for him when he wakes up and look after him.

Yes I agree, he will never pass stone it's huge, 5x7 mm seen in ultrasound
We just don't have any vets to do it, I'm on barrier island in fl
Meeting with dr that over sees our zoo Monday for consult recommendation and doing that asap
Lil Mac stable, doing critical care , fresh veggies, water, 24 hr care between me and my college student
Prayers for our gorgeous lil Mac
I'll go anywhere in the state for the surgury
Thanks so much! Kay, GP mom

 

[GP MOM]

I have had several older guinea pigs than yours put through major surgery (bladder and spaying) and they have survived just fine! Just in May I had a 5 year old spayed because of large ovarian cysts and a 6 year old operated for an infected cyst removal. They are both perfectly fine and ready to go on for a goodly while longer.

Sorry to say, but when the pain is so bad that your piggy is not eating, then he IS suffering, and suffering badly! Do you know just how painful bladder stones are, especially when they become embedded in the bladder wall or the wall of the urethra? Even all the syringe feeding and maximum long term painkiller is not going to do the trick; and certainly not any antibiotic!

One of the sows I had operated some years ago had a massive rabbit sized "silent" (i.e. symptom-free) bladder stone until she went suddenly downhill. Even despite syringe feeding round the clock, she went from 700g on the Friday to 540g on the operation table on the Monday, which was the earliest spot I could book her for. Ceri did survive her operation and was back to 700g within two weeks, just from the sheer absence of pain; no syringe feeding needed after the first two days. She was the same age as your boy is now.
A piggy can even survive multiple bladder stone operations, depending on where the stone sits and how bad the bladder trauma is.

PLEASE give your boy a chance with an operation; what you are doing now is going to lead to slower, surer and more painful death than any operation would give him. We have had enough forum members in your position that have dithered too long because they were - like you - too afraid to make a decision, and then very quickly lost their piggies anyway as their little bodies just couldn't cope any longer. Your current treatment is unfortunately simply not adequate as it doesn't not address the cause of the problem, and is not going to save him even in the short to medium, never mind the longer term.

Any operation is a jump over the cliff - but personally I have found it much easier to live with in the longer term to jump myself than watching a piggy in my care slide over the edge because I was dithering for too long. The inevitable feelings of guilt were a lot worse than those when one of my piggies didn't make it through an emergency operation. At least in the second case I have given them a chance to live and spared them an agonising death. There is sadly no easy way out once you are playing in the big league of health problems, and larger bladder stones unfortunately play there.

We have got a recommended UK vets locator on the top bar. Guinea Pig Vet Locator
Here is a link to recommended vets in some other countries: Guinea Lynx :: GL's Vet List

@Jaycey @Freela @Elwickcavies

Yes! day 6 and totally on board for the surgury, now to find someone that does it, no one here does, meeting w dr Monday that oversees our zoo for recommendation
He's eating and drinking now
U/s showed it rolling around in his bladder, I'm getting it out as soon as possible and thanks
Will take leave from work to nurse him backWe are crazies for these guys! His cagemate is 6 yrs old , healthy and fine

 

[DM030819]

I was never able to actually see the zoo vet but alot of what happened with my bladder stone pig was because of a zoo vets advice here in the UK. So fingers crossed you get good advice too!

Let us know how it goes.

 

[GP MOM]

I saw him to be sure I was right and there was no competent vet in my town to take stone out
He confirmed that, advised me on the pedialyte, added the melacam, gave him complete exam
, ruled out no temp, heart great, teeth great and said we were doing amazing after 9 days and keep it up and get that stone out asap...
2 more days, can't wait to get him to the surgeon and move forward!
The pedialyte was a blessing!
Will post once back from orlando fri night

 

[pigwigg]

I saw him to be sure I was right and there was no competent vet in my town to take stone out
He confirmed that, advised me on the pedialyte, added the melacam, gave him complete exam
, ruled out no temp, heart great, teeth great and said we were doing amazing after 9 days and keep it up and get that stone out asap...
2 more days, can't wait to get him to the surgeon and move forward!
The pedialyte was a blessing!
Will post once back from orlando fri night

How is the little guy?
My old boy had a HUGE bladder stone which was found by examination no xrays.
It got to the point where it was either try surgery and risk losing him or losing him to the stone.
He was 7 years of age and we decided surgery was the best thing to try for him, HE MADE IT!
He was eating apple from the nurses 45 mins after waking up, the vet was absolutely astonished and he made a wonderful
recovery! xx