Abscess Causes

[DM0605212]

We got two new piggy's in February, only 4 months old. Stella and Maisy. I noticed a lump on Maisy 2 days ago and took her to the vets and she has an abscess so is having an operation on Tuesday, I was giving them a cuddle this morning and noticed two big new lumps come out of nowhere on our other piggy Stella so back to the vets this afternoon. I think they are both going to need an operation, £300 each for the op and meds! They are both eating and seem happy other than these huge grape sized lumps that have come out of nowhere poor little things. I am so worried, my daughter is 13 and I have taken her out of school for severe bullying and her mental health is not good so we got these little piggy's as friends for her and she absolutely loves them to bits, she is going to be utterly heart broken if anything happens to them. They are such little cuties. The vet said it is usually caused by biting but they both get along so well and there is no outside wound so I am really confused. Maisy has pain meds and antibiotics now and then hopefully Stella will get the same this avo. Hate the thought of them being in pain. I don't know if it is something I have done or not done as they both have them. They have a huge C&C cage with fleece liners and are cleaned every day. The vet asked if they had spikey hay, I wonder if timothy hay is too spikey or something? But they don't look like they have any cuts on their skin or anything, just the lumps under the skin with some hair loss where the lumps are. So confused and just want to make sure that if we manage to get them better that they don't get anymore lumps.

 

[Wiebke]

We got two new piggy's in February, only 4 months old. Stella and Maisy. I noticed a lump on Maisy 2 days ago and took her to the vets and she has an abscess so is having an operation on Tuesday, I was giving them a cuddle this morning and noticed two big new lumps come out of nowhere on our other piggy Stella so back to the vets this afternoon. I think they are both going to need an operation, £300 each for the op and meds! They are both eating and seem happy other than these huge grape sized lumps that have come out of nowhere poor little things. I am so worried, my daughter is 13 and I have taken her out of school for severe bullying and her mental health is not good so we got these little piggy's as friends for her and she absolutely loves them to bits, she is going to be utterly heart broken if anything happens to them. They are such little cuties. The vet said it is usually caused by biting but they both get along so well and there is no outside wound so I am really confused. Maisy has pain meds and antibiotics now and then hopefully Stella will get the same this avo. Hate the thought of them being in pain. I don't know if it is something I have done or not done as they both have them. They have a huge C&C cage with fleece liners and are cleaned every day. The vet asked if they had spikey hay, I wonder if timothy hay is too spikey or something? But they don't look like they have any cuts on their skin or anything, just the lumps under the skin with some hair loss where the lumps are. So confused and just want to make sure that if we manage to get them better that they don't get anymore lumps.

Hi!

Is your vet sure that they are abscesses and not something else? There is quite a range of possible lumps that can blow up.
Guinea Lynx :: Lumps

 

[DM0605212]

Hi!

Is your vet sure that they are abscesses and not something else? There is quite a range of possible lumps that can blow up.
Guinea Lynx :: Lumps

The vet looked at Maisy and put a needle in the lump and said because of the consistency of what was coming out she said it was an abscess and would need operating on. We are off to the vets in a minute for her to see Stella.

 

[Bill & Ted]

They may well have had the odd bite before you got them when they may have been in a large group of guinea pigs so don’t worry if they are happy with each other’s company. Abscesses can start with a small bite or puncture wound to the skin. The skin heals quickly but sometimes locks always the bacteria under the skin and it multiplies. Abscesses have a cottage cheese appearance and a horrible smell. It sounds quite a lot of money, you could look around your area at other good vets and ask for quotes for abscess removal?

 

[Wiebke]

The vet looked at Maisy and put a needle in the lump and said because of the consistency of what was coming out she said it was an abscess and would need operating on. We are off to the vets in a minute for her to see Stella.

All the best!

I wonder whether there was something thorny/scratchy with bacteria on it (some plants have that) in the hay that could have caused infected puncture wounds? That is the only thing that I can think of that would explain multiple abscesses in more than one guinea pig at the same time.

If they are close to the surface, they are best lanced and stitched open for flushing and draining in order to allow them to heal from the inside out and for any speck of infection to come out. Deeper abscesses are best operated out in one piece to make sure that there is no infection getting into the body.

All the best! Here are our post-op care tips: Tips For Post-operative Care

 

[Swissgreys]

And lots of us (sadly) have abscess experience so please come back and let us know the outcome of the latest vet visit.
We are all here to support you and have lots of ideas and practical advice.

 

[DM0605212]

So our lovely vet said that Stella has an abscess in the throat area and thinks the other two lumps next to it are swollen lymph glands and she said she is not experienced enough to operate in that area comfortably. So she said she would refer us to a specialist in Swindon. They just called and the consult fee alone is £185 each piggy and then treatment/operation between £600 to £1200!!! Just spent the last hour blubbing like an idiot. My mum thinks I'm nuts spending every penny of my savings on them but the only other option is to do nothing and I can't do that. Both on meds now so already spent £150. My daughter is heart broken. The vet is convinced they were caused by bites. I have never seen them fight but then when we were in the car waiting for our appointment they started squeeling and Maisy the bigger one was on top of Stella ad being pushy. Then Stella was in a little fleece tube in the carry crate and Maisy came out and pushed her out of it. So the vet told me to separate them so I have just adjusted the cage so one has the top floor and the other the bottom but they can still hear each other although they can't see each other but the vet said we can get them out for play time together. She said it might be hormonal because of their age and they might be ok after that settles down but I am worried that if I spend over £3000 on them and then put them back together and it happens again we are stuffed but at the same time I feel sad that if it isn't down to that then they are separated for no reason. My mum found some other places online that I am going to call tomorrow for a second opinion. Thank you all for your advice and kind words xx

 

[DM0605212]

They may well have had the odd bite before you got them when they may have been in a large group of guinea pigs so don’t worry if they are happy with each other’s company. Abscesses can start with a small bite or puncture wound to the skin. The skin heals quickly but sometimes locks always the bacteria under the skin and it multiplies. Abscesses have a cottage cheese appearance and a horrible smell. It sounds quite a lot of money, you could look around your area at other good vets and ask for quotes for abscess removal?

I thought that and asked if they could have been bitten in the shop when they were all together and she said it was a possibility. I'm ringing some other places tomorrow. xx

 

[Bill & Ted]

I’m going to tag “the abscess queen“ @furryfriends (TEAS) Debbie has an amazing amount of experience dealing with abscesses and may be able to point you in the right direction. Has the vet offered any Antibiotic treatment? Zithromax is used for treating some abscesses. Can you travel, there is a great guinea pig vet in Northampton who treat GP’s with Zithromax, Simon and Kim at the Cat and Rabbit Clinc, unfortunately they are a husband and wife team who are off on leave till 6 April for today but I can thoroughly recommend them. Hopefully Debbie will give you advice soon x

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I would definitely suggest a visit to see Simon or Kim Maddock at The Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic, in Northampton. Unfortunately, they are on leave until 12th April. How are they in themselves? Are they still eating normally?

 

[Freela]

Where are the lumps located? Abscesses can be from bites, but guinea pigs can also develop abscesses for other reasons- face and neck abscesses are pretty common and can occur without bites. They can arise from something as simple as getting a hay poke in their mouth while eating, or by an overgrown sharp molar. I wouldn't be so quick to jump straight to bites as a cause... especially if you aren't seeing aggression or any wounds. Infection occurs when the skin is broken by the teeth of the other pig... I just find it hard to believe that two pigs who appear to get along fine (what you've described above sounds like very normal dominance behavior) are injuring each other to the point of drawing blood without you seeing it! You seem really attentive and to be paying pretty close attention.

Guinea pigs lack an enzyme that many animals have that makes pus watery... their pus is really thick and cheesy. As a result, their bodies have a hard time moving out the pus after even fairly minor events, which can lead to abscess formation pretty easily. It's also why they often need lancing and draining... it's hard for oral antibiotics to penetrate the thick pus. Hopefully you can find a vet that's affordable and has experience lancing and draining abscess, which is usually what's done. Best wishes and definitely keep us posted on their progress!

 

[Swissgreys]

I would most definitely be seeking a second opinion.
And if you haven't seen them fight and there are no obvious bite marks I would put them back together.
Maybe start by putting them in an open play pen area and watch them for a bit, but when piggies don't get on it is usually quite obvious.

Honestly I frankly do not understand why your vet did not at least to attempt to open Maisy's abscess to drain it and allow you to flush it at home.
I have been through this twice now with jaw abscesses, and in both cases the initial consult was around 120 pounds, and this included the appointment, cutting open the abscess, antibiotics and pain killers, and after several weeks of regular flushing at home the whole thing was fixed.
It is not fun, but this is usually the first step in treating an abscess.
Did you vet say why they felt surgery was the only option?

Take heart. I am 100% sure you can find a better and cheaper solution with the right vet.
Have you looked at the vet locator in the green bar at the top of the page.

 

[Freela]

I very much agree about seeking a second opinion, preferably with a vet that sees guinea pigs regularly (in Canada they usually advertise as dealing with 'exotics' or 'pocket pets,' though some UK members can give you clearer advice there. I'm wondering if she is referring you to a surgical specialist... and really, dealing with an abscess shouldn't require that level of specialization in most cases. It's a pretty simple 'poke a hole, clean it out, leave it open to heal' procedure... and even in a case where a piggie of mine had the entire abscess surgically removed, walls and all, it was done by her regular exotics vet for a reasonable price.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Sorry I gave you the incorrect info, Simon and Kim are off until the 12th April not the 6th, but if your piggies are healthy otherwise I agree I would not rush in to taking them over to the specialist vets in Wiltshire either, it seems overtop to me for treating an abscess and the price seems over the top too

 

[DM0605212]

Thank you everybody for all your messages. So Maisy's lump in on her neck on the left side near her shoulder. Stella's in under her chin in the throat area. I spent all night watching video's on you tube of them being lanced in both areas so I don't understand myself why my vet went straight for the operation route. I have found today a guinea pig specialist vet in the local area who treats lots of rescue piggy's and has operated numerous times too so I have cancelled Maisy's operation on Tuesday and cancelled the appointment with the exotic vet in Swindon and I have made an appointment to see Jenny the clinical director at the vet practice I found who is the most experienced vet with piggy's in the practice on Tuesday dinner time. In the mean time I am giving them the Loxicom for pain once a day and Co-trimoxazole antibiotic twice a day. Stella's poops are a bit squishy so started adding ProC Probiotic to the water this morning, hopefully that helps. I don't know whether to keep them apart as the other vet said until we see the new vet on Tuesday and just hope that she thinks it is something different so they can be back together and just let them have floor time together and cuddles with us together. They seem ok, Stella was doing little pop corns and both happily munching their hay and greens etc..

 

[DM0605212]

Where are the lumps located? Abscesses can be from bites, but guinea pigs can also develop abscesses for other reasons- face and neck abscesses are pretty common and can occur without bites. They can arise from something as simple as getting a hay poke in their mouth while eating, or by an overgrown sharp molar. I wouldn't be so quick to jump straight to bites as a cause... especially if you aren't seeing aggression or any wounds. Infection occurs when the skin is broken by the teeth of the other pig... I just find it hard to believe that two pigs who appear to get along fine (what you've described above sounds like very normal dominance behavior) are injuring each other to the point of drawing blood without you seeing it! You seem really attentive and to be paying pretty close attention.

Guinea pigs lack an enzyme that many animals have that makes pus watery... their pus is really thick and cheesy. As a result, their bodies have a hard time moving out the pus after even fairly minor events, which can lead to abscess formation pretty easily. It's also why they often need lancing and draining... it's hard for oral antibiotics to penetrate the thick pus. Hopefully you can find a vet that's affordable and has experience lancing and draining abscess, which is usually what's done. Best wishes and definitely keep us posted on their progress!

Yes the bites thing just doesn't feel right to me so I'm hoping the next vet maybe finds something more concrete to go on. They definitely feel like they are from the inside rather than from a wound. Like you said, I've not seen them fight at all, the odd bit of Maisy sitting on top of Stella or even Stella going and pinching Maisy's leaves even though she has her own and the squealing moment in the crate in the car but then they are both in a small space but still, never any real fighting and definitely not seen any blood on either of them and no scabs or anything. Fingers crossed we get some clearer answers on Tuesday when we see the new vet. I just hope the antibiotics don't make them poorly in the meantime, the vet made me sign a waiver to say I understand they are off label and not licensed for piggy's which was a little worrying.

 

[eileen]

I hope all goes well at the new vets,such a sorry for you.

 

[Swissgreys]

Well done - that all sounds much more positive.
And please consider putting them back together - watch them for a bit first, but I think if they are not fighting they will be much happier with companionship.

 

[Freela]

Yes the bites thing just doesn't feel right to me so I'm hoping the next vet maybe finds something more concrete to go on. They definitely feel like they are from the inside rather than from a wound. Like you said, I've not seen them fight at all, the odd bit of Maisy sitting on top of Stella or even Stella going and pinching Maisy's leaves even though she has her own and the squealing moment in the crate in the car but then they are both in a small space but still, never any real fighting and definitely not seen any blood on either of them and no scabs or anything. Fingers crossed we get some clearer answers on Tuesday when we see the new vet. I just hope the antibiotics don't make them poorly in the meantime, the vet made me sign a waiver to say I understand they are off label and not licensed for piggy's which was a little worrying.

My pigs have had Bactrim (same med yours are on) without ill effects. Some vets are (rightly) cautious about antibiotics with pigs, because there are some antibiotics that are fatal to guinea pigs because they disrupt their gut flora so dramatically, but the idea that Baytril is the only safe antibiotic isn't true... there are many others that are well-tolerated and safe as well, even 'off-label.' I'm keeping fingers crossed you can get this resolved quickly, please keep us posted! We're all rooting for your piggies!

 

[Bill & Ted]

Good luck for Tuesday, hope it all goes well for them x
Let us know how you get on

 

[Free Ranger]

I have found today a guinea pig specialist vet in the local area who treats lots of rescue piggy's

I'm so pleased - I just saw this thread and was going to suggest you maybe call the dbarc rescue and see which vet they use. I personally go to 'the veterinary practice' in Henley - not a specialist practice but two of the vets there keep pigs and have done my operations. One of my older girls had a throat lump a few years back - seriously can't remember what it was but it had to be left as an open wound under her chin to heal from the inside. Luckily I'm not squeamish!

I think you'd know if they were fighting and biting. They don't pretend to like each other when they're being watched!

 

[DM0605212]

Hi everyone, thought I would give you a quick update. I put the girls back together and spent a lot of time watching them. There is definitely some dominance behaviour going on. Maisy, the bigger piggy chases Stella and pushes her bum. Climbs on top of her and generally just being a bit of a moo with her. If Stella gets in the hammock, Maisy jumps in and pushes her out. But, Stella also does the odd bit of this if Maisy is somewhere she follows her and tries to get in the same place. All very similar to all the info in the behaviour sow section on here. Although they seem to be squabbling they are not fighting as such but it may well be the vet was right and there may have been some gentle nipping or something that maybe caused the abscess's, I guess we won't know unless the new vet finds something different on Tuesday. Both taking their meds well and still eating really well and other than the lumps seem pretty happy. Poops seem better since putting the ProC in their water. I have also put 2 of everything in their cage and made a separate area upstairs that has hay in etc too so hopefully that will help. I will fill you in after we see the vet on Tuesday.

 

[DM0605212]

So a quick update. New vet thinks as they are both only 5 months old and both have lumps, that it could be cervical or caseous lymphadenitis and one piggy has passed it to the other. She has taken samples and they were being sent off tonight and should get results by the weekend and then that should tell us what antibiotic we need and then whether they need to lance them or operate. She said often, if it is lymphadenitis, then they keep getting them in different parts of their bodies. So, feeling sad but hopeful and I guess just taking one step at a time. They seem happy and are eating etc.. xx

 

[abrennan110]

Hi everyone, thought I would give you a quick update. I put the girls back together and spent a lot of time watching them. There is definitely some dominance behaviour going on. Maisy, the bigger piggy chases Stella and pushes her bum. Climbs on top of her and generally just being a bit of a moo with her. If Stella gets in the hammock, Maisy jumps in and pushes her out. But, Stella also does the odd bit of this if Maisy is somewhere she follows her and tries to get in the same place. All very similar to all the info in the behaviour sow section on here. Although they seem to be squabbling they are not fighting as such but it may well be the vet was right and there may have been some gentle nipping or something that maybe caused the abscess's, I guess we won't know unless the new vet finds something different on Tuesday. Both taking their meds well and still eating really well and other than the lumps seem pretty happy. Poops seem better since putting the ProC in their water. I have also put 2 of everything in their cage and made a separate area upstairs that has hay in etc too so hopefully that will help. I will fill you in after we see the vet on Tuesday.

You definitely DO NOT want to put vitamin c in their water. But you definitely DO want to make sure that your piggies are getting a sufficient amount of vitamin c everyday! As long as they’re eating a good diet, the vitamin c should be covered by their veggies. (A medium-large slice of bell pepper has a piggy’s daily vitamin c needs within it.) For my boys, I do supplement vitamin c just to be safe. I give them 1 mL of child life liquid vitamin c everyday. My boys very briefly developed a couple scurvy symptoms in the beginning when I was putting the vitamin c drops in their water and wasn’t ANYWHERE nearly as informed about proper guinea pig care as I am now. Please make the switch stat!

 

[Wiebke]

So a quick update. New vet thinks as they are both only 5 months old and both have lumps, that it could be cervical or caseous lymphadenitis and one piggy has passed it to the other. She has taken samples and they were being sent off tonight and should get results by the weekend and then that should tell us what antibiotic we need and then whether they need to lance them or operate. She said often, if it is lymphadenitis, then they keep getting them in different parts of their bodies. So, feeling sad but hopeful and I guess just taking one step at a time. They seem happy and are eating etc.. xx

All the best! Good that your vet is testing for it and for the best possible antibiotic.

 

[Siikibam]

Sorry @Wiebke someone brought an old(ish) thread to life.

@abrennan110 the poster hasn’t been on since March so not likely to see your response. We also don’t recommend you supplement them with vitamin c, unless they are ill. Doing so when they’re okay can lead to issues with levels of vitamin c in the body. Once it gets used to the ‘supplemented/higher’ dose, they may be ill when it falls below the new ‘normal’. There is vitamin c in grass, hay and veg like coriander and bell pepper. The latter two are recommended to be fed daily.

 

[abrennan110]

Sorry @Wiebke someone brought an old(ish) thread to life.

@abrennan110 the poster hasn’t been on since March so not likely to see your response. We also don’t recommend you supplement them with vitamin c, unless they are ill. Doing so when they’re okay can lead to issues with levels of vitamin c in the body. Once it gets used to the ‘supplemented/higher’ dose, they may be ill when it falls below the new ‘normal’. There is vitamin c in grass, hay and veg like coriander and bell pepper. The latter two are recommended to be fed daily.

That’s actually the reason why I do still supplement the vitamin c. I originally only wanted to do it for a brief period of time when 2 of my boys lost mobility in their back legs (due to me being not as educated at the time and putting it in their water for a while). As soon as I stopped putting it in their water and started supplementing with child life liquid vitamin c, the mobility was regained almost miraculously. Then I became more and more educated and learned about what you said.. about how they can get sick or develop scurvy symptoms again if they start receiving less vitamin c than they became used to. This is why I still give it to them everyday. They do also get bell pepper everyday and cilantro most days. I provide as healthy of a diet as possible as I worry about them like crazy. My babies

 

[Wiebke]

That’s actually the reason why I do still supplement the vitamin c. I originally only wanted to do it for a brief period of time when 2 of my boys lost mobility in their back legs (due to me being not as educated at the time and putting it in their water for a while). As soon as I stopped putting it in their water and started supplementing with child life liquid vitamin c, the mobility was regained almost miraculously. Then I became more and more educated and learned about what you said.. about how they can get sick or develop scurvy symptoms again if they start receiving less vitamin c than they became used to. This is why I still give it to them everyday. They do also get bell pepper everyday and cilantro most days. I provide as healthy of a diet as possible as I worry about them like crazy. My babies

If your piggies have become used to those high levels, you have to wean them off them very gradually; allowing the body to get used to lower levels. You can do this safely over the course of about 2-3 months by gradually lowering the amount you supplement them with.

 

[abrennan110]

If your piggies have become used to those high levels, you have to wean them off them very gradually; allowing the body to get used to lower levels. You can do this safely over the course of about 2-3 months by gradually lowering the amount you supplement them with.

Okay if you think that’s better for them then I trust your judgement. I should wean them off of it completely?

 

[abrennan110]

Sorry @Wiebke someone brought an old(ish) thread to life.

@abrennan110 the poster hasn’t been on since March so not likely to see your response. We also don’t recommend you supplement them with vitamin c, unless they are ill. Doing so when they’re okay can lead to issues with levels of vitamin c in the body. Once it gets used to the ‘supplemented/higher’ dose, they may be ill when it falls below the new ‘normal’. There is vitamin c in grass, hay and veg like coriander and bell pepper. The latter two are recommended to be fed daily.

And sorry @Siikibam, I didn’t realize I shouldn’t give feedback to anything more than a couple months old. Thanks for the help.