Adopted 2 sows from rescue today & paired with my neutered boar. But theyre all avoiding each other! What do i do?!

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I went to a local rescue today and took my single neutered boar to find a female/s companions. He was put in a run with a young pair of sows (owner said they could be about 9 months)
I need to explain a little backstory about Reggie to help with my question - My boar has been on his own his whole life I think - he was 1 when we got him last year from someone online who had him in a little cage alone with no hay etc. He was neutered in Feb 2020 then lockdown hit and we were unable to boar date him due to covid.
In around May this year 2021, (whilst on waiting lists for rescues) this year I took in 2 poor little sows that were in awful conditions being sold by someone online. Long story short - after weeks of side by side cage living one of the sows did not like him or accept him Into the group when they were together for the 1st time - she ended up hounding him, squealing at him and jumping at him - he ended up being very scared and attempting to jump out of the run to escape so we left that at that never introduced them again.


Fast forward to this morning. When they were all out in the run together at the rescue the new sows didn't bother him at all, however I thought they were very nervous and so just stayed still in the run they were all in. Reggie went up to them and sat by them for a short while. So we picked those, they were together for a total of about 8 mins. The owner told me to put them all in the carrier together on the way back which they all seemed fine with no issues.


They've been together now for 6 hours in a new cleaned out cage etc and they've just basically avoided each other all day. The sows are very nervous so stayed still for most of the day in a corner. They have just livened up about an hour ago and are popcorning and head twitching wildly, eating hay etc but Reggie whenever they bump into him or even touch him lightly by accident he runs away and chatters and retreats to his bed.
He has gone close to them by himself quite a few times and ate hay beside them but not for long - he seems to get nervous and retreats back to the side of the cage he's been sat in all day and into his bed. They definitely are keeping distance between each other. Currently he only chatters and runs away when they bump into him or startle him from behind, I'd say its medium volume chattering. I just don't think he gets their excitement. The sows run away and leave him alone when he does chatter which is good. The cage they're in is 150x80cm (5ftx2ft) with 4 water bottles so I think plenty of space.


I'm just a bit worried. I feel that Reggie is scared of them and a bit traumatised after his encounter with the first sow we got that didn't like him and he just doesn't know what to expect, plus he's been on his own most of his life I think he's going to find it hard to adjust.


My question is is this normal behaviour for a pig in his situation? I'm worried it may not work out and he will avoid them forever. I hope he's not too stressed. Is this me losing my nerve too soon? Is it OK to keep going?


The rescue I went to was just a lady with a big shed in her garden, and she was very difficult to contact to arrange to come to the rescue in the first place and also said that "reggie will be fine with them" basically and sent us on our merry way. I have a feeling she won't answer the phone as she hasn't anytime I have called (I rang her in May a couple of times before we got our first sows to try to register to adopt) and when trying to arrange to come this time and then she didn't answer at all, just text. Point is I don't think she will be a great source of help with this, so I wanted to come back here for advice.

Thanks all if you can share some advice
 
Hello emmyk89 it’s difficult, I’m an new guinea pig Mum so I’m sorry I’m no help but I just wanted to say that everyone here is so friendly and helpful and knowledgeable that someone will come along to offer advice. I hope it’ll be a great bond and Reggie will have two lovely ladies in his life 😊
 
emmyk89 said:
I went to a local rescue today and took my single neutered boar to find a female/s companions. He was put in a run with a young pair of sows (owner said they could be about 9 months)
I need to explain a little backstory about Reggie to help with my question - My boar has been on his own his whole life I think - he was 1 when we got him last year from someone online who had him in a little cage alone with no hay etc. He was neutered in Feb 2020 then lockdown hit and we were unable to boar date him due to covid.
In around May this year 2021, (whilst on waiting lists for rescues) this year I took in 2 poor little sows that were in awful conditions being sold by someone online. Long story short - after weeks of side by side cage living one of the sows did not like him or accept him Into the group when they were together for the 1st time - she ended up hounding him, squealing at him and jumping at him - he ended up being very scared and attempting to jump out of the run to escape so we left that at that never introduced them again.


Fast forward to this morning. When they were all out in the run together at the rescue the new sows didn't bother him at all, however I thought they were very nervous and so just stayed still in the run they were all in. Reggie went up to them and sat by them for a short while. So we picked those, they were together for a total of about 8 mins. The owner told me to put them all in the carrier together on the way back which they all seemed fine with no issues.


They've been together now for 6 hours in a new cleaned out cage etc and they've just basically avoided each other all day. The sows are very nervous so stayed still for most of the day in a corner. They have just livened up about an hour ago and are popcorning and head twitching wildly, eating hay etc but Reggie whenever they bump into him or even touch him lightly by accident he runs away and chatters and retreats to his bed.
He has gone close to them by himself quite a few times and ate hay beside them but not for long - he seems to get nervous and retreats back to the side of the cage he's been sat in all day and into his bed. They definitely are keeping distance between each other. Currently he only chatters and runs away when they bump into him or startle him from behind, I'd say its medium volume chattering. I just don't think he gets their excitement. The sows run away and leave him alone when he does chatter which is good. The cage they're in is 150x80cm (5ftx2ft) with 4 water bottles so I think plenty of space.


I'm just a bit worried. I feel that Reggie is scared of them and a bit traumatised after his encounter with the first sow we got that didn't like him and he just doesn't know what to expect, plus he's been on his own most of his life I think he's going to find it hard to adjust.


My question is is this normal behaviour for a pig in his situation? I'm worried it may not work out and he will avoid them forever. I hope he's not too stressed. Is this me losing my nerve too soon? Is it OK to keep going?


The rescue I went to was just a lady with a big shed in her garden, and she was very difficult to contact to arrange to come to the rescue in the first place and also said that "reggie will be fine with them" basically and sent us on our merry way. I have a feeling she won't answer the phone as she hasn't anytime I have called (I rang her in May a couple of times before we got our first sows to try to register to adopt) and when trying to arrange to come this time and then she didn't answer at all, just text. Point is I don't think she will be a great source of help with this, so I wanted to come back here for advice.

Thanks all if you can share some advice
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Reggie will need time to adjust to living with new roommate's. Not all piggies snuggle up together even if they're bonded. The mild teeth chattering is normal behaviour its him saying hes a little bit annoyed/frightened etc, completely normal for a new bonding. Think of how youd feel moving in with new people you didn't know, it would take a while to get to know them.
 
Give them time, as long as their is no open aggression. Only if the fronts harden in the next 2-3 days would I call it off as a failed bonding. It is a common misconception that every bonding either a love match or a fight (in fact fights in cross gender bondings, even those that don't come off, are rather).

You have to wait a bit longer to see whether acceptance has happened or not.
A Closer Look At Pairs (Boars - Sows - Mixed) (the mixed pairs chapter essentially also works for a mixed gender trio)
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics (see chapter on dominance phase)
 
Hi, thanks for your replies. I did read them when you first responded but I just haven't had time to respond.

They're still doing the same thing really, no open aggression but reggie is still running away from them, but with much less chattering then on Sunday at least. He does come out into the open whilst the girls are out but it's when they come over to him for a (what looks like) harmless sniff either nose to nose or his behind (which makes him jump and run away) he seems to loose his nerve and run off, he "complain squeaks" about half the time he runs off. He jumps into a bed in the corner which he feels is safe and the girls seem to leave him alone when he's in it, and after he runs away they don't pursue him. I have a few videos from a baby camera that I've set up but I can't attach them.

Is this still going OK from what I've described above?

Both nights overnight we have put a divider in the cage (using C&C grids so they can see each other still) just for safety in case anything happens and we aren't there to supervise.
 
Hopefully this works I have just uploaded some snaps from the moniter. I am actually sat beside the cage working from home so they are being supervised :)

This is what reggie tends to do when the girls come close for a sniff, he runs away and retreats to the corner or jumps away. There was no chattering just some complaining squeaks from reggie when he ran away, not too high pitched or "squealy" as I call it just kind of mild complaining.
Reggie is the big black lovely boar!


 
I don't see anything too concerning. Hes maybe a bit scared but nobody seems to be acting aggressively.

I personally wouldn't separate them overnight as i would think its prolonging the bonding, as every time you separate them they need to start from the beginning again (Even if they can see each other through bars). I would hold your nerve and leave them together
 
Julie M said:
I don't see anything too concerning. Hes maybe a bit scared but nobody seems to be acting aggressively.

I personally wouldn't separate them overnight as i would think its prolonging the bonding, as every time you separate them they need to start from the beginning again (Even if they can see each other through bars). I would hold your nerve and leave them together
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Thanks for your reply. It's reassuring. Yeh I did think that dividing the cage may cause that, but it's only because he still chatters occasionally and I know he's fearful - I wasn't sure how the girls would react to it, especially the first night or 2

Heres 2 more clips from the last hour



Both times when he ran away, in video 3 when he jumped into his bed and in video 4 near the end when they're both at the tubes all when she's trying to sniff him - he chattered at a quiet volume. I think its going well still, I just hope he looses his fear soon and gets used to their company, and obviously I hope the girls like him in the end too 🤞
 
Just wanted to say you have *the* most beautiful piggies! Hope reggie realises his wives aren’t scary wig pigs soon xx
 
There is no aggression in it; just mild dominance with a little nip and a posture that reminds him of who's boss. I can also see no sign that he has not been accepted by the girls.

Just give him time to settle down and work up his nerve. Hopefully the next couple of seasons or so will help to cement the bond. The post-intro dominance phase generally lasts around 2 weeks until the group is fully established.
 
Wiebke said:
There is no aggression in it; just mild dominance with a little nip and a posture that reminds him of who's boss. I can also see no sign that he has not been accepted by the girls.

Just give him time to settle down and work up his nerve. Hopefully the next couple of seasons or so will help to cement the bond. The post-intro dominance phase generally lasts around 2 weeks until the group is fully established.
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I'm so pleased to read this! After the last time Reggie was rejected by my other girls I think I was more traumatised than him! Haha.

They've been better the last 24 hours, reggie is doing a lot less running away and chattering and I didn't put the divider in last night. I'm not working from home today but I have the camera set up and everything seems fine so far.

One of the girls has been rumble strutting around constantly- seems to be mostly aimed at the other girl, could she be on heat? Or is this the dominance phase?

I was at home all day yesterday and I haven't seen any of them sniff each others backsides yet or any humping/grooming or anything like that, will that come next when they're all more comfortable in each others company or? It's just the one girl that's been rumbling at the other so far.(the girls were in the same cage at the rescue as they're siblings)
 
emmyk89 said:
I'm so pleased to read this! After the last time Reggie was rejected by my other girls I think I was more traumatised than him! Haha.

They've been better the last 24 hours, reggie is doing a lot less running away and chattering and I didn't put the divider in last night. I'm not working from home today but I have the camera set up and everything seems fine so far.

One of the girls has been rumble strutting around constantly- seems to be mostly aimed at the other girl, could she be on heat? Or is this the dominance phase?

I was at home all day yesterday and I haven't seen any of them sniff each others backsides yet or any humping/grooming or anything like that, will that come next when they're all more comfortable in each others company or? It's just the one girl that's been rumbling at the other so far.(the girls were in the same cage at the rescue as they're siblings)
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She could be in season. That explains the rumbling. Its still Looking good though
 
Your girl may be coming into season or just wanting to bolster her own ranking in the hierarchy.

Brace yourself for some strong ones in the presence of a new boar. All the high pheromone output and drama will serve to bond them together.
When Sows Experience A Strong Season (videos)

But it is still looking good; any behaviour is all in the mild dominance range and nothing to worry about. :)
 
Wiebke said:
Your girl may be coming into season or just wanting to bolster her own ranking in the hierarchy.

Brace yourself for some strong ones in the presence of a new boar. All the high pheromone output and drama will serve to bond them together.
When Sows Experience A Strong Season (videos)

But it is still looking good; any behaviour is all in the mild dominance range and nothing to worry about. :)
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Thanks for the link I read this a few days ago it's very helpful.

With the hierarchy thing are boars included in that? So could a boar and a sow be against each other for top pig position or is it just between the girls?

Thanks for your continued advice it's very much appreciated :)
 
If anyone wanted to see them as they are now heres a short clip :) (the boxes have 2 exits) and there is a cuddle cup bed in 3 corners for each of them :)

Reggies stilla little jumpy when they creep up behind or get too giddy haha but he seems very relaxed :)

 
Hello! Yes the hierarchy includes the whole herd, and I suspect what you called "complaining squeaks" was actually submission squealing - your male letting the females know he wasn't interested in being top pig.
 
Pigwhisperer said:
Hello! Yes the hierarchy includes the whole herd, and I suspect what you called "complaining squeaks" was actually submission squealing - your male letting the females know he wasn't interested in being top pig.
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Ahhh yes possibly! How funny!
 
emmyk89 said:
Thanks for the link I read this a few days ago it's very helpful.

With the hierarchy thing are boars included in that? So could a boar and a sow be against each other for top pig position or is it just between the girls?

Thanks for your continued advice it's very much appreciated :)
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It's actually little bit more complicated than that in my own experience with lots of groups of all sizes over the years.

A group consists of sows who would normally associate with a boar of their choice. There is a sow hierarchy, which a husboar will not generally interfere with in any issues between two sows.
Then there is the overall group hierarchy where the boar will fit in according to his personal 'kudos', whether that is as a leader or anywhere further down the ladder. I've had the full spectrum from dominant leaders to gentle bottom boys - it frankly doesn't matter as long as he is accepted.

Acceptance generally lies with the sows but cross gender bondings tend to fail more often during the post-intro dominance phase when the group hierarchy or leadership question cannot be settled. This is not necessarily a fight (many boars are actually not agressive) but just an increasing hardening of fronts some days into the bonding. Often the other sows will back up and unite behind the leader or the leader behind a lower ranked sow who will really not accept the boar.
 
Thanks for your reply.

Things have been better since, and they have been eating together and reggie seems a lot less jumpy. That is, untill this eve. I happened to catch it on camera aswell - Yeti (white one) was just eating hay behind him, he spins around and seems to eat happily next to her then she must have pulled some hay from under him or something and he did this, nipped her. Is this normal? There was no chattering or anything or squeals from any if them. Yeti is a little nervous of him now.


Both girls have been a bit more excitable today (I've been working from home all day next to the cage) - both rumbling at each other and the odd time at him, and chasing each other about and some "complaining" between each other. None of them have chased reggie though and he hasn't chased any of them.

I've always known reggie as a "grump" though as he nips us (kinda "hits" us with his teeth rather then bite) too when you touch him on his cheeks, sides or backside.
 
emmyk89 said:
Thanks for your reply.

Things have been better since, and they have been eating together and reggie seems a lot less jumpy. That is, untill this eve. I happened to catch it on camera aswell - Yeti (white one) was just eating hay behind him, he spins around and seems to eat happily next to her then she must have pulled some hay from under him or something and he did this, nipped her. Is this normal? There was no chattering or anything or squeals from any if them. Yeti is a little nervous of him now.


Both girls have been a bit more excitable today (I've been working from home all day next to the cage) - both rumbling at each other and the odd time at him, and chasing each other about and some "complaining" between each other. None of them have chased reggie though and he hasn't chased any of them.

I've always known reggie as a "grump" though as he nips us (kinda "hits" us with his teeth rather then bite) too when you touch him on his cheeks, sides or backside.
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I think that Reggie is just grumpy about having his private sphere invaded. Some piggies can be rather touchy about this, especially at first; the girls will learn to stay away.

Since he is clearly the boss; it sounds like they are coming up to a season, which in the early stages of a new group often comes with more dominance behaviours for starters; the rumbling can in some cases also last a bit afterwards; depending on their relationship.
 
Wiebke said:
I think that Reggie is just grumpy about having his private sphere invaded. Some piggies can be rather touchy about this, especially at first; the girls will learn to stay away.

Since he is clearly the boss; it sounds like they are coming up to a season, which in the early stages of a new group often comes with more dominance behaviours for starters; the rumbling can in some cases also last a bit afterwards; depending o
n their relationship.
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Yeh definitely, I can understand where he's coming from haha! It's always good to get advice from you guys who have lots of experience with their behaviours.

I thought he didn't have any interest in being top pig? They do leave him alone though, I haven't once yet seen them try to get him out of a bed or anything or steal his food or get in his way. The girls seem to want to make friends and sniff him etc but he's not too happy about that yet then.

Here's a recent clip from just now really, after his little nipping episode: the girls are rumbling to each other and chasing, and he seems to be keeping out of it haha! At 45 secs he got out of his bed in the corner to tell them off by the looks of it? No chattering or anything just some higher pitched squeaking from him haha

 
It's great that you rescued Reggie and gave him a good home, as he didn't have a good start to life. He seems anxious and to have a startle response to being touched. Are there plenty of secluded spaces in the cage where he could wind down? Enough boxes with 2 doors for each piggy minimum? Hopefully he'll get used to the girls and realise they won't hurt him 🤞
 
We're on day 9 now, and things mostly stayed the same untill yesterday. The white one I think wants to be top pig and is constantly rumbling around, telling the others to get out of beds they're in, nudging their bottoms with her nose, chasing etc.

The problem is reggie isn't happy with any of that at all. Here is a clip from this morning- he got into the bed in the corner and she's just hassling him. The camera is awful at picking up sound so it's just a load of crackles (mute it if you watch it) but reggie was high pitched squeaking at her everytime she goes round to the other side and nipping at her occasionally. She did leave him alone eventually but I can't see this working if she won't back down from wanting to be top pig. She doesn't manage to ever chase reggie around like the other girl runs away and backs down to her really, reggie just high pitch squeals and jumps around with a nip or a lunge towards her.


How does it all look to you guys?
 
She always seems to hasstle Peanut (brown one) all the time or more so than reggie, how do you know if its bullying or normal dominance? Here's a video of what she's like with her


And here's a phone video with better sound and all, how she is being with both:


She isn't like this 100% of the time, it's about 70% of the time she's being like this. It's only started the last day really, none of the pigs seem to be very happy no popcorning or anything and I think Peanut is really trying to keep out of Yeti's way, Reggie not so much. And sometimes Peanut squeaks at yeti back when she's hassling her to get out of a bed and yeti leaves her alone
 
When I say "hassle" I mean "rumblestrut at, poke, and chase" sorry I can't edit any of my posts to add this bit in
 
Do the boxes have 2 doors cut out them? Is the cage 2x5? I think I'd have smaller, 2 entrance boxes or hideys, so the piggies have more free floor space and less "hey move, let me past" encounters, especially given you've said Reggie is reactive to touch.
 
Black piggies said:
Do the boxes have 2 doors cut out them? Is the cage 2x5? I think I'd have smaller, 2 entrance boxes or hideys, so the piggies have more free floor space and less "hey move, let me past" encounters, especially given you've said Reggie is reactive to touch.
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Yes of course the boxes have 2 entrances. The cage is 3x5. The boxes are small enough already - he won't fit end to end in any of them if they are any smaller.

Even if there were no hideys at all it wouldn't matter - Yeti is going over to each of the pigs purposefully, head on, to rumblestrut at them and nudge them. In fact she seeks them out to do just that
 
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