Advice needed: bond in trouble?

piglew

Junior Guinea Pig
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Hello,

We adopted a 3yo New Pig in March after our 4yo Original Pig sadly lost her sister in early February.

At first, Original Pig was the dominant one, as she had been previously. However, a few weeks ago, the situation reversed itself, and New Pig was suddenly in charge. New Pig is also a sow, but bigger than Original Pig, who has always been on the small side.

Original Pig hasn't really been herself since she lost her sister. She did perk up a bit when we got New Pig, but after losing her dominant status, she's seemed really depressed.

She doesn't move around a great deal during the day, and - most concerning - she isn't really eating much hay at all. Like, hardly anything at all in the past few days.

She is eating nuggets, veggies and grass quite happily, though - which is what I find strange. We don't overfeed any of these, by the way.

She's lost weight due to not eating much hay at all, and so we took her to the vet yesterday (an exotics vet). The vet couldn't find any significant issues, though we booked her in for a follow-up dental check next week, with a view to potentially getting her teeth sorted if they've grown too long due to not enough hay. The vet said her back teeth did look like they could potentially be causing one or two issues, but it was difficult to say. And also, it's impossible to know if that's the root cause of her not eating hay - or simply the result of her not doing so.

So I wanted to ask, do you have any advice on anything else we could try before she goes to get her teeth sorted?

I've considered a trial separation to see if that perks her up. If it does, I'll have my answer, I guess - though it will present another problem as we don't have space for two cages side-by-side.

Any thoughts very welcome!

Additional notes:

1) It's hard to know if she's being bullied by New Pig. When they're outside, Original Pig will follow New Pig around, nose to bum almost. And she seems happy enough out there, munching on the grass (we currently let them out at least an hour a day). However, inside, New Pig does rumblestrut a LOT, so I don't know if that's putting Original Pig off from trying to eat hay. She is happy enough to eat veggies and nuggets, though, as I say.

There's not really any worrying dominant behaviour that I can see other than rumblestrutting. Just the usual kicking out of hides on occasion. Certainly no actual fighting.

2) We're currently feeding Critical Care to help ensure she's getting enough fibre and nutrients, and also to hopefully put some weight back on her. I did hope it might encourage her to start eating the hay again, but so far no joy.

3) We've tried several different types of hay, but with no luck on any.

4) The vet gave us some painkiller medicine to give her until she goes back next week in the hope that that might help her eat if it was her teeth bothering her, but again, that hasn't seemed to help so far.

5) Our cage is a 4x2 Kavee. And we put out plenty of piles of hay and various hides with two exits.
 
Quick update: I've just been watching her and she is happy to snuffle around in the hay looking for any nuggets she may have missed. So I have to assume from that that she's not scared off eating hay by New Pig. For whatever reason, she's choosing not to - whether that's down to her teeth or something else.
 
Hello,

We adopted a 3yo New Pig in March after our 4yo Original Pig sadly lost her sister in early February.

At first, Original Pig was the dominant one, as she had been previously. However, a few weeks ago, the situation reversed itself, and New Pig was suddenly in charge. New Pig is also a sow, but bigger than Original Pig, who has always been on the small side.

Original Pig hasn't really been herself since she lost her sister. She did perk up a bit when we got New Pig, but after losing her dominant status, she's seemed really depressed.

She doesn't move around a great deal during the day, and - most concerning - she isn't really eating much hay at all. Like, hardly anything at all in the past few days.

She is eating nuggets, veggies and grass quite happily, though - which is what I find strange. We don't overfeed any of these, by the way.

She's lost weight due to not eating much hay at all, and so we took her to the vet yesterday (an exotics vet). The vet couldn't find any significant issues, though we booked her in for a follow-up dental check next week, with a view to potentially getting her teeth sorted if they've grown too long due to not enough hay. The vet said her back teeth did look like they could potentially be causing one or two issues, but it was difficult to say. And also, it's impossible to know if that's the root cause of her not eating hay - or simply the result of her not doing so.

So I wanted to ask, do you have any advice on anything else we could try before she goes to get her teeth sorted?

I've considered a trial separation to see if that perks her up. If it does, I'll have my answer, I guess - though it will present another problem as we don't have space for two cages side-by-side.

Any thoughts very welcome!

Additional notes:

1) It's hard to know if she's being bullied by New Pig. When they're outside, Original Pig will follow New Pig around, nose to bum almost. And she seems happy enough out there, munching on the grass (we currently let them out at least an hour a day). However, inside, New Pig does rumblestrut a LOT, so I don't know if that's putting Original Pig off from trying to eat hay. She is happy enough to eat veggies and nuggets, though, as I say.

There's not really any worrying dominant behaviour that I can see other than rumblestrutting. Just the usual kicking out of hides on occasion. Certainly no actual fighting.

2) We're currently feeding Critical Care to help ensure she's getting enough fibre and nutrients, and also to hopefully put some weight back on her. I did hope it might encourage her to start eating the hay again, but so far no joy.

3) We've tried several different types of hay, but with no luck on any.

4) The vet gave us some painkiller medicine to give her until she goes back next week in the hope that that might help her eat if it was her teeth bothering her, but again, that hasn't seemed to help so far.

5) Our cage is a 4x2 Kavee. And we put out plenty of piles of hay and various hides with two exits.

Hi

Please weigh your dental or ill piggy daily on your kitchen scales first thing in the morning and then compute the top up syringe feeding amount from there. Rooting in the hay doesn't necessarily eating enough, see that hay makes over three quarter of the daily food intake. But it is good to see that she still has some interest.
Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support Levels
All About Syringe Feeding and Medicating Guinea Pigs with Videos and Pictures

It is normal to see a phase of increased dominance around a leadership change as the new order is established and reaffirmed. That is 'by the book' when it comes to guinea pig social behaviour; it can be stronger if the new leader is insecure and only taking over by default and not necessarily by choice.

I hope that you can have her checked soon and wishing you all the best. Please be aware that the dental overgrowth can sometimes be the result of something else going wrong (secondary and not just primary). The apathy is normally a late symptom for dental piggies that are not eating enough and having much energy.
 
Thank you. One further update.

Original Pig is booked in for dental treatment on Wednesday. However, I've attempted a trial separation as I didn't want to put her through general anaesthetic needlessly.

Two odd things have happened:

1) Original Pig starred eating hay almost immediately. I figured OK, I know the real issue now. But then...

2) After initially eating hay, she seemed absolutely DESPERATE to get past the divider to see New Pig. To the point I thought she was going to hurt herself.

Original Pig is now just sort of staring at me looking rather forlorn after her initial hay-eating.

New Pig is just chilling in a hide. She rumbled a few times but didn't really seem overly bothered by the situation.

We're less than 30 minutes into the trial separation, but I felt I had to try before subjecting Original Pig to a general anaesthetic. The only trouble is I'm not sure what to make of it! I was expecting either 1 or 2 to happen -- not both!
 
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