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Advice on abcess

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tenoraddict

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We're new to the guinea pig world. Chester has been with us for about 1.5 years. We think he was a few months old when we got him. Patrick (a sow) has been with us for 14 months, and was very young when we got her. They are kept in separate rooms.

2 weeks ago, we noticed a bump forming on Patrick - at the bottom of her back, where it starts to curve down to her rump. We watched it for about a week, and when it started to grow we took her to the vet. She diagnosed it as an abcess and recommended surgery to remove it in encapsulated form. As you all know, the quote she gave us was very expensive. I burst into tears at the vet's and was very embarrassed. :red We brought Patrick home because my DH and I have an agreement that we will discuss expenditures over a certain dollar amount. We researched options like lancing and draining, etc. I then spoke to the vet about lancing, but she said that removal was the better option.

We are confused by the varying information we've read. Some bits are so inflammatory as to make me think Patrick's abcess will rupture internally at any moment and kill her. Other articles tell us to go ahead and lance it ourselves. :o I think the truth of what's best lies somewhere in the middle. We had a beloved Labrador for 14 years, and by the time she died she had developed multiple, harmless lipomas, which the vet (a different vet) had said we might want to have removed (even though they weren't hurting Cooper). So here's my abcess question: what if we don't remove it? Will it harm her, or could she live happily with it for years? Currently, she's acting normally, except...

She seems to have developed a skin infection on her back, not far from the abcess. I've spent hours reading about it tonight - fungal vs parasitic. From what I've read and the photos I've seen, it seems fungal. She has the dandruffy look to her (which is easy to see because she's black). I'm going to tug on the hair tomorrow and see if it comes out easily or not (which is supposed to help me tell which it is, I guess). I understand from my reading that it's not unusual for a flare-up when there's something else going on with the piggy's health. If I can't find anything comparable locally (I'm in the States) tomorrow, I'm going to put an order in with Gorgeous Guineas to work on the skin problem.

If there's no other option and living with the abcess will harm her eventually, we will definitely have it removed. I'm not saying that it's too expensive and we love her but we can't afford the surgery. We DO love her, but it IS expensive and we need to be careful and responsible with our funds. If it's the only option, she'll have the surgery.

Thanks in advance for any advice about the abcess or the skin problem.
 
Firstly hi and welcome to you, your partner, Patrick and Chester to the forum :)
The best advice i'd give is to see a cavy savvy vet, if you can give us a rough idea of where you are somebody hopefully can point you in the direction of one. You said you're in the US, i do have some friends in different states, and could ask them for recommendations also.
I have gone thru any abscesses with a boar whee had, his were mainly around his jaw line tho. I would never lance anything myself.
Send an email to Gorgeous Guineas she is very helpful and her products and advice is great.
I'm hoping one of our lovely more experienced people will be on later (at the moment it is very early in the UK.
Best wishes for little Patrick xoxo

Glynis, Velvet and Onyx x
 
Hi tenoraddict,

Sorry to hear that Patrick is unwell.

Do you know how guinea savvy your Vet is? I agree with Glynis, it's vital to try and find a Vet who is especially knowledgeable and experienced with guinea pigs, if at all possible. I understand that it's not always easy in the US though. You may find this link helpful, it contains links to some recommended US Vets:
http://www.guinealynx.info/vet.html

I would also never ever lance an abscess myself and I've never heard anyone advise that an abscess can safely be left untreated.

Best of luck x
 
Hello and welcome to the forum.

OK - lumps, there are a number of reasons for a pig to develop a lump. These are the main ones.

Abscess. My first course of treatment would be draining (via syringe aspiration or lancing by a vet), antibiotics to allow the body to fight the infection, saline/Hibiscrub flushing of the abscess to remove residual pus over the course of a few days until healing was progressing well. If the lancing/ABs don't work then I would consider surgery to remove it but most will clear up with treatment.

Sebaceous cysts. Many require no treatment if they are not growing fast and not impacting on the pigs movement/comfort. Those that require treatment can be lanced and drained in the same way as abscesses or surgically removed if they refill and are causing discomfort.

Lipoma, fatty lumps. Lots of pigs develop these and most are nothing to worry about. Some may need removal if they are fast growing or causing discomfort.

Lymphoma, can be treated with ABs if the cause of it is infection. Surgery can be used to remove those deemed to be problematic (nasty lumps).

As the only way to really find out what type of lump you are dealing with is to have a cavy savvy vet to check it out - often with a fine needle aspiration to determine the contents. Then the correct course of treatment can go ahead.

It's always best to have lumps checked out rather than left, the vast majority are nothing too much to worry about but for those that require treatment sooner is always better than later.

As your pig also has some skin issues then that could be the way the infection has got into the skin (in the case of an abscess). But the skin issue could also be the result of the lump causing a dip in the immune system for the skin problem to take hold. The vet should be able to tell the difference between fungal and parasites and provide the correct treatment.

HTH

Suzy x
 
Thanks for the replies, everyone. We know that it's definitely an abcess (not a cyst, lipoma, etc), and the vet we've seen wants to remove it, not lance it. They don't have office hours today, so I'm going to call on Monday and find out how many she's successfully removed. There is a cavy savvy vet not far from us, as it turns out (thanks for that link, Missy), and I will call them as well on Monday when they're open.
 
tenoraddict said:
There is a cavy savvy vet not far from us, as it turns out (thanks for that link, Missy), and I will call them as well on Monday when they're open.
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Wow that was lucky as I always hear that good piggy Vets are very few and far between in the US. Please let us know how you get on. Best of luck to you both x
 
missy said:
Wow that was lucky as I always hear that good piggy Vets are very few and far between in the US. Please let us know how you get on. Best of luck to you both x
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Yes, that seems to be true. There are none in my state, but we live on the border of another state, and there are actually 2 to choose from within about 15-30 min from our home.

The hair around the rashy area doesn't pull out easily when tugged, so I'm thinking it's mites and not fungal. ?/ The GuineaLynx site says that mites can be fatal, so we should take her to the vet...but other things I've read on this forum recommend the products from Gorgeous Guineas for mites. I've ordered from them today, but it will take some time to get here from the UK. We'll probably be back at a vet early next week anyway, so I suppose they can tell me if it's mites or a fungal infection.

I suppose that whatever it is, she's always had it in its dormant stage, because she's not been exposed to any other piggies. Chester was too big and too male ;) to let them room together when we brought little Patrick home.

BTW, she technically belongs to my DS13. He bought her and cares for her, but when there's a sick baby in the home, mama can't help but be involved. I'm afraid I'm way too attached to sweet Patrick for my own good.
 
tenoraddict said:
...There are none in my state, but we live on the border of another state, and there are actually 2 to choose from within about 15-30 min from our home.

The hair around the rashy area doesn't pull out easily when tugged, so I'm thinking it's mites and not fungal. ?/ The GuineaLynx site says that mites can be fatal, so we should take her to the vet...but other things I've read on this forum recommend the products from Gorgeous Guineas for mites.
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Gosh that really is lucky - lots of us in little old England travel further than that, myself included. I hope they're 'good' recommendations.

I think there may be some confusion about the different types of "mite".
Mange Mites are blood sucking parasites and can be fatal if left untreated. Firm diagnosis is therefore key, but treatment is usually relatively straightforward once you know what you're dealing with (via the drug Ivermectin, as stated on GL). Gorgeous Guineas also advise Ivermectin treatment for Mange Mites and they don't sell anything which claims to clear an existing infestation, but they do have products to soothe the skin and remove resulting debris from the skin/hair.......

....However GG do sell products to clear different types of non-blood sucking Lice, which are also sometimes known as "fur mites" or "hay mites", just to confuse matters!

Anyway see what the Vet diagnoses on Monday, just to be sure.
 
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My pig Linney had a similar abscess on her lower back a little over a year ago. We elected to treat it, in part because a few weeks before we had just lost another piggie due to abscess-related complications (although the situation was very different, our other piggie did not have a surface skin abscess but had an abscess deep in the roots of her tooth which spread to her jawbone and then caused septicemia and death.) At any rate, I was still shaky at losing our other piggie and wanted this lump off my Linney ASAP! Our vet first elected to drain it and give antibiotics to see if that would clear it up. In a nutshell... no, it didn't. We had it drained twice, and in spite of antibiotics and the fact that I was continuing to express pus from it regularly and didn't let the wound close up, it wasn't enough to clear the problem. In fact, it actually made it worse (or at least nastier to look at!) because the process of lancing and draining caused the skin on top of the abscess to die and fall off (like a hangnail) which left an open sore on her back under which we could see the very thick wall of the encapsulated abscess. At this point we were a few weeks in and the vet thought the best move was to put her under and remove the encapsulated abscess. Luckily she did quite well, managed not to gnaw or pull at her stitches, and that was the end of the whole thing. Over a year later, she is fine and has not had a recurrence of that (or any other) abscess.

From a financial perspective, it would have been cheaper just to remove the encapsulated abscess. It would have cut out two additional weeks of antibiotics, as well as the initial cost of the lancing/draining procedure that didn't work. I honestly think that the likelihood is that if the abscess did rupture, it would rupture to the surface provided it's close to the skin. However, I'm paranoid after losing a pig to internal infection and thus I'm pretty likely to treat any future abscesses aggressively, unless there are other circumstances like age or other health issues that make the risks of removal outweigh the benefits.

My only other advice: make sure your vet is knowledgeable and does frequent small animal surgeries. You don't want your guinea pig to be treated like a guinea pig! LOL! And if there are various cavy vets around, you can ask about price. Some vets do charge more. I'm in Canada so I don't know how comparable the prices are to your area, but I think Linney's surgery cost me about two hundred dollars. Yes, pricey... but worth it for a successful outcome and a happy piggie at the end!

Good luck with Patrick, and hope she is okay whatever you choose!
 
Good luck at the vets on Monday with Patrick XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

hey that's great that you found a vet on the GL site !

Let us know how things go :)
 
Missy said:
I think there may be some confusion about the different types of "mite".
Mange Mites are blood sucking parasites and can be fatal if left untreated. Firm diagnosis is therefore key, but treatment is usually relatively straightforward once you know what you're dealing with (via the drug Ivermectin, as stated on GL). Gorgeous Guineas also advise Ivermectin treatment for Mange Mites and they don't sell anything which claims to clear an existing infestation, but they do have products to soothe the skin and remove resulting debris from the skin/hair.......

....However GG do sell products to clear different types of non-blood sucking Lice, which are also sometimes known as "fur mites" or "hay mites", just to confuse matters!
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Missy, that's very helpful; thanks. I have no idea, obviously, what kind of mites - if they're mites at all - Patrick has. She can't reach the spot on her back, but now she's starting to scratch everywhere. I wish it wasn't the weekend, so I could bring her somewhere today!

Freela said:
My pig Linney had a similar abscess on her lower back a little over a year ago. We elected to treat it, in part because a few weeks before we had just lost another piggie due to abscess-related complications (although the situation was very different, our other piggie did not have a surface skin abscess but had an abscess deep in the roots of her tooth which spread to her jawbone and then caused septicemia and death.) At any rate, I was still shaky at losing our other piggie and wanted this lump off my Linney ASAP! Our vet first elected to drain it and give antibiotics to see if that would clear it up. In a nutshell... no, it didn't. We had it drained twice, and in spite of antibiotics and the fact that I was continuing to express pus from it regularly and didn't let the wound close up, it wasn't enough to clear the problem. In fact, it actually made it worse (or at least nastier to look at!) because the process of lancing and draining caused the skin on top of the abscess to die and fall off (like a hangnail) which left an open sore on her back under which we could see the very thick wall of the encapsulated abscess. At this point we were a few weeks in and the vet thought the best move was to put her under and remove the encapsulated abscess. Luckily she did quite well, managed not to gnaw or pull at her stitches, and that was the end of the whole thing. Over a year later, she is fine and has not had a recurrence of that (or any other) abscess.

From a financial perspective, it would have been cheaper just to remove the encapsulated abscess. It would have cut out two additional weeks of antibiotics, as well as the initial cost of the lancing/draining procedure that didn't work. I honestly think that the likelihood is that if the abscess did rupture, it would rupture to the surface provided it's close to the skin. However, I'm paranoid after losing a pig to internal infection and thus I'm pretty likely to treat any future abscesses aggressively, unless there are other circumstances like age or other health issues that make the risks of removal outweigh the benefits.

My only other advice: make sure your vet is knowledgeable and does frequent small animal surgeries. You don't want your guinea pig to be treated like a guinea pig! LOL! And if there are various cavy vets around, you can ask about price. Some vets do charge more. I'm in Canada so I don't know how comparable the prices are to your area, but I think Linney's surgery cost me about two hundred dollars. Yes, pricey... but worth it for a successful outcome and a happy piggie at the end!
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Thank you, Freela. It's encouraging to hear that Linney has done so well post-surgery. The vet we saw will charge $400 to remove the abcess, and has cautioned us that it might grow back. I'll find out tomorrow if the 2 cavy vets will give me a quote over the phone for the procedure, and I'll see one of them to treat her.
 
Four hundred does sound high, though I'm not sure where you're located or what the typical vet rates are there. From what my vet said, an abscess that is removed while encapsulated is a lot less likely to recur than one that is lanced and drained... my vet's opinion was that if she got through the post-op course of antibiotics and didn't have a recurrence, that she was pretty much 'cured.' I was concerned that she could get an infection along the surgical incision that could grow into a second abscess, but she healed very well and no more lumps. I hope you get a better price quote and a good vibe from one of the other vets!
 
Good news! The vet experience today was wonderful. She said that Patrick looks great except for the skin problem and lump: shiny coat, beautiful teeth. I felt like we had done everything right, whereas the last vet left me feeling that we had done something terribly wrong. I believe now that she was just very inexperienced and didn't know what to tell me.

First the skin issue: She did a scraping for mites, which was negative - though she admitted that it could be a false negative because she didn't scrape down to blood. She said that it's so easy to treat for mites that she doesn't like to agitate the piggies more than necessary. She gave Patrick a dose of Revolution to be on the safe side, and we have one to administer in 3 weeks. She thinks the skin problem came from the lump stretching and irritating the skin. I'm consulting with Chrissie at GG to learn which products will be best for follow up.

She was very much in favor of lancing the abscess. I was more in favor of removal, but she was convincing and I trusted her almost immediately because of the way she talked to me and to Patrick; the first vet didn't inspire much confidence in me. Anyway, I'm glad we went with the lancing, because when she saw what came out of it, she changed her diagnosis to sebaceous cyst. Yay! She was as pleased as I was that it wasn't an abscess. She reminded me that it might grow back, but unless it gets very large again or Patrick seems bothered by it, there's no need to worry or lance it again.

Patrick is on a pain-killer and an antibiotic. She was fairly agitated during the squeezing of the cyst, so I'm sure she'll nap well today. Thanks to all of you for your advice and warm wishes. I do have one more question: are probiotics necessary? The vet didn't mention, and I forgot to ask. I give them to my kids during and after antibiotics, but I don't know if animals need them as well.
 
I'm glad the appt went well and it's nothing to worry about! They definitely aren't happy while being 'squeezed'- Linney was quite ****** off about the whole thing! LOL! You can give probiotics while they were on antibiotics... some antibiotics are harder on the gut than others. When my pig Frenzy was on Baytril she did have some runny poops, though by that point she was so sick that it was hard to tell what was due to antibiotics and what was due to major infection. When Linney had her abscess she was on chloramphenicol and it didn't affect her gut at all. I had a hard time finding probiotics for animals, and don't know enough about dosing to help with adapting human products for animals, but I'm sure someone will be able to help!
 
So pleased to hear that you had a much better experience with this new Vet and that they don't believe Patrick's lump to be an abscess after all. Great news!

Probiotics are a good idea, especially with Baytril. I always give probiotics while my pigs are on any type of antibiotics although some ABs are more harsh on the gut than others, as Freela said. The best time to give probiotics is apparently 1-2 hours after each dose of antibiotics.

I'm not sure which piggy-safe probiotic products are available in the US but if you're stuck (and don't mind the idea of it!), you can give "poop soup" to help replenish good bacteria in the gut. This is done by dissolving the poop of a healthy piggy (half a dropping, as fresh as possible) with a little water and syringe feeding it to the poorly piggy. The powder from plain Acidophilus tablets/capsules, sold for humans, can also be given to guineas but I'm afraid I've never used it and don't know what the dosage would be.

Hope Patrick is back to her usual self very soon x
 
missy said:
if you're stuck (and don't mind the idea of it!), you can give "poop soup" to help replenish good bacteria in the gut. This is done by dissolving the poop of a healthy piggy (half a dropping, as fresh as possible) with a little water and syringe feeding it to the poorly piggy.
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Gross! I'm sure Chester would be willing to donate, but I'm not sure I could force feed that to poor Patrick...
 
The gross part is you really don't have to force feed it to them... a piggie with unbalanced gut flora will actually run around behind another pig actively trying to get their poops!
 
I just typed a huge post, and it all disappeared because I took too long. I don't think I can bear to write it all again. Patrick died yesterday, after surgery to remove the cyst. It had been getting bigger and was very tender to the touch. She did beautifully during surgery, but died at home a few hours later. I am overcome with grief and the feeling that it's my fault...that there was something I could've done or shouldn't have done. I can't stop crying. She was my son's piggie, but I loved her and she loved me. She was SO sweet, and SO funny, and had loads of personality. I miss her and can't get over feeling like it's my fault.
 
It's not your fault you did your best for her.. so sorry for your loss, hugs (((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))
 
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