advice on bedding, housing, behaviour, please

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Hi, everyone, this is my first post on this forum. I have been a frequent visitor. We became proud carers for two guineas two weeks ago. They are now almost 12 weeks old, both female, called Scamper and Pip. We got them a multi-storey hutch - top level has their covered bedroom and a small open area, the middle level has a large open area and the lowest level is open to the ground but contained on four sides with a clear front panel. We are not presently using the lowest level.

When we got them we were told they are on Gerty Guinea pig food, and advised to use dust-extracted wood shavings on the middle level, where their food and drink is located, and hay and newspaper on the top level and in their bedding box. We were also told they should be fine in the shed, covered with a blanket at night.

The first week we got them the weather turned very cold so we got a snugglesafe heatpad for use at night and covered the hutch. They seemed fine. However when temps dipped below zero we decided to bring them indoors because they are babies, housing them in an indoor hutch. We also have a portable enclosure we can use for playtime indoors or in the shed. When the weather improves we hope to acclimatise them to the shed again gradually. Generally they seem more active in the outdoor hutch in the shed.

My reason for posting is that I am confused about a number of areas where there is a lot of contradictory advice. For example, Gerty Guinea pig food seems controversial. I've started adding a little bit of Science Selective gp food to their Gerty with the aim of trying wean them off it. I know it is alfafa based and thought it would be good while they are growing. They don't seem to be touching the Science selective stuff yet.

Then there is the matter of wood shavings. These are dust extracted. However there seems to be a lot of advice against using wood shavings. Peter Gurney advises hay and newspaper. We get a long hay for them but I've also got some shorter hay, called Meadow Hay - the make that seems to be in all the pet stores. I'm disappointed with the shorter hay - it seems very poky/sharp. I had hoped to use it as the litter base instead of wood shavings, with the longer hay for eating and bedroom. When we were using just the longer hay (ie not the meadow hay) Scamper had an eye injury - either from hay or from Pip (more about behaviour later). The vet advised using a paper bedding, not hay, but then changed her mind and suggested sticking with hay but discontinuing if she gets another injury. Her eye is now fine.

I notice that their droppings get mixed up with the hay and am not sure how often hay needs completely changing. At the moment we spot clean daily, do a complete change and clean once every 6-7 days (weekend) and when using the outdoor hutch we were changing one level every 3-4 days during the week. We get through a lot of hay.

There seems to be advice against using straw but some say the short soft straw - same make as the meadow hay - is OK. I'm asthmatic with a straw sensitivity but had wondered whether soft straw was better than this sharp meadow hay stuff.

I tried carefresh - took the whole bag to fill the indoor hutch so I imagine it would take two bags to fill the outdoor one. I like Carefresh esp indoors but it seems expensive for one small bag. I had wondered whether to continue using hay and newspaper with some carefresh in their toilet areas.

Any advice on the bedding would be gratefully received.

Behaviour-wise, the guinea pigs began shoving each other and making rattling noises last week. They also give each other the occasional nip. They have the same birthdate so are suspected litter mates. However I think they both want to be top pig. I thought two females were supposed to get along? We wondered whether the eye injury was a scratch from Pip. i now serve food in two bowls but they seem irritable with each other.

I'm sorry this is a long post - wasn't sure whether to break it up into different topics or whether this one general one is OK.

Is there any advice as to the maximum mesh gap for outdoor runs? I've seen one that looks good but the mesh gap is about 2" square. Is that too big or OK?
 
For the bedding in my cages i use newspaper with hay on top just hay we get from City Farmers. I have never had a problem with pine shavings but thats not to say others havent either. I feed my rabbits and guinea pigs pellets and a mixture I'm not sure what brand so sorry i cant help there... I also feed them lots of wet foods... lettuce, broccolli, parsley, strawberries ets. I clean my cages (both double storey) every 3-4 days and replace the hay when they are about t run out... They may be trying to figure out who is boss with their behavior but if one of them gets hurt or it is obviuse one is bullying the other i would sugest seperating them! Congrats on the guineas and welcome to the forum! Hope this info helped...
 
Hiya, welcome to the forum :)

I feed my pigs Wagg Optimum pellets which you can get from Asda and they all love it - before that they were all on different sorts as some would eat one, but not another.

If they're inside you could try using vet bed for their bedding, it's like fleece and you spot clean and wash it, have a look in the reviews in the housing and bedding section. Other people use megazorb, haven't tried it myself but probably worth a look at.

Are you postiive they're both girls? If you got them from a petshop you often find they're not the greatest at sexing them and you don't want one of each. I have two girls and when they first started living together one definitely bullied the other as they sorted out who was the boss, now they're ok but I wouldn't say friends although they live quite amicably together.

As for hay, I get a bale from a local horse supplier, it works out dead cheap for bedding. I asked on a rabbit forum about better quality 'eating' hay and have had the following sites recommended

http://www.thehayexperts.com/index.php
http://www.bunnybasics.net/
http://www.dustfreehay.co.uk/cost2.html

My OH has a hay allergy but seems ok with the better quality dust free sort.

Good luck, hope that helps a bit

ps pics please ;)
 
wow! lots of questions!

hi and welcome to the forum :)

re the outdoor run mesh size - 2" square would allow rats in and i would recommend something smaller but not chicken wire! reason i say this is because i had 3 free-range pigs die suddenly a few years back after some investigation it appears that rats got into their open cage and urinated or defecated and contaminated the piggies food or hay. rats can be immune to some rat poisons but our piggies are not, it passes through the rats bodies hence the poisoning of my boys >:( (i no longer have free-range pets!)

re the choice of bedding - everyone has their own preferences. personally i use woodshavings and hay for the indoor pets and the outdoor pets have megazorb (very good but stinky!) and straw (straw is supposed to be better for insulation) they also have hay in a basket to eat.

re gerty guinea pig - all my pigs used to be on this until i read about the selective feeding and the colourings in it, when you have more than 1 guinea eating from the same bowl you don't know who's eating what bits. so i gradually weaned mine on to Burgess excel which is an all-in-one nugget. the reason i chose this was because it is easy to find in the shops whereas science selective isn't (not around here anyway) weaning them can take a month if your piggies are as fussy as mine!

re droppings - guineas need to eat some of their droppings so don't worry about cleaning them out too frequently.

re behaviour - your piggies need to sort out the pecking order, give it a little time hopefully they will settle down soon.

remember everyone has their own preferences and way of doing things, there is no definitive way that is absolutely correct. you want what is best for your piggies and that is wonderful they are very lucky to have you! ;)
 
Hi, thank you for your replies. I'll look up the links. Is City farmers also a website - will try googling it. I've found they both love brocolli, cabbage (but I don't give them too much, and not every day in case of bloat), grapes, carrots, carrot leaves, spinach. Wouldn't touch celery or sweetcorn. I wondered about trying other fruit but thought we'd start off with the foods we were told they had been having and introduce changes gradually. They also love munching through their hay. I used to think the noise was the gp scratching themselves but soon realised it was the sound of quick munching! It is so funny to see the way they eat hay - like a log being fed into a saw mill! And such cute noises. We (a family of 5) are all besotted!

I do hope they sort out their differences soon. We're keeping an eye on them and will separate if necessary. At the moment we are waiting to see what happens. One day Scamper is Queen, eg of the log cabin, and another it is Pip who is the top pig, especially of the food. I did wonder about the sex too and had a close look at their bits - they do look female although I gather that sometimes males start off looking female. Will check again soon. They don't like being held with their bellies up.

They are gradually becoming more tame and will often eat from us (when held) or next to us (when observed) They still run away when we want to pick them up but then are relaxed and chatty when held.
 
I use dust extracted woodshavings, but layer some areas of the cage with hay, and some with straw, and occasionally towel. So their feet have different surfaces to walk on. Never had any problems with it. Alot of people have different opinions, and just because a so called expert says something, it doesnt mean you have to accept it as gospel.

Peter Gurney might have been a very clever man that still doesnt mean I am going to give no second thought to it and do what he says is best. Same goes for Vedra from the CCT - she is wonderful with piggies and I think she is doing a brilliant job, yet I think its horrible that she advises to put vick vapour rub on piggy noses!

take a look at experts views, and decide if you agree with them.
 
Actually we are about 40 mins drive from the CCT and had wondered whether to make contact with them perhaps they would let us join. I noticed the CCT advises not using wood shavings. It is hard to know what to do for the best but I guess it is like all the advice about bringing up babies - ultimately you have to try things out and decide what works best for you. It is a steep learning curve!

I've learned a lot from you all - I find it really helpful to read about what works well for you, thank you.

Not sure I've got the hang of posting while replies are coming in. I can get megazorb delivered in my area of the UK but the minimum order size is 10 bags!
 
PS I had wondered about the Vicks too. I notice that it is listed on some first aid lists. Also thought I saw a reference to vicks on bottoms too.
 
when they have breathing difficulties, she says it helps them. well thing is I personally find it a bit too strong for myself - try rubbing some directly on your nose. and then think about a piggies sensitive nose..

otherwise, she is the most competent person I have ever met, its just that I mean you have to carefully consider what to do, if you dont agree with something dont do it, even if experts tell you to. Its all about gut feeling IMHO.

Some people also say its enough to leave a freshly neutered boar away from girls for two weeks - I personally would stick to the oldfashioned three to four, 2 just doesnt seem enough. same goes for woodshavings - some people dont rehome to owners that use them, but I have been fine with them and this whole "they dry their skin out and cause breathing problems" is pretty much unknown in Germany anyway, so to me it just seems like there were some UK "experts" who decided shavings were the most evil thing ever and voiced it loudly. So in this country there is this whole myth going on about how awful they are - surely people in other countries must have noticed how bad they are aswell? but they havent. which makes me think its just a fad of some uk experts, and from there it spread.

go with whatever works for you, is my advice.

as for the food, you are doing the right thing, mix the new stuff in gradually, less and less of the old stuff, and at some point they will be left with a bowl full of the new food. They will learn to like it. A thing that you might well call a "fad" of german people from gpig forumns is not to give ANY dry food, apart from giving it as a treat and if the piggies are kept outside, or need extra fattening.
because apparently they can happily live on hay and fresh fruit and veg.
This is argued about alot aswell, so again - whatever works for you.

same goes for drinking bottles - some say its horrid to use bottles as the poor piggies have to get their head in an unnatural position to drink, etc. and they would only use bowls. others say they dont have the time to clean out the waterbowls four times a day when bedding gets kicked in, so bottles are more hygienic... you can see, the things people believe in are so different and there is so much controverse thinking that you can never do it right for EVERYONE anyway.
 
Shavings aren't recommended for health reasons, I'm sure if you do a search you'll find loads of info. I do use them in the hutches with a thick layer of hay on top so they're not in contact with them much. Many rescues won't rehome to you if you use shavings although breeders still use them a lot.

I know someone uses russell rabbit bedding which is soft chopped straw on top of paper. As you say, it's trial and error to what suits you - I've used vet bedding but found the washing of it a nightmare on top of the family wash but others love it.
 
newpiggies said:
It is hard to know what to do for the best but I guess it is like all the advice about bringing up babies - ultimately you have to try things out and decide what works best for you. It is a steep learning curve!

exactly.

my mum, my sister, and my boyfriends mum would give me all different advice when it comes to bring kids up, so I suppose I have to figure it out myself. same thing with piggies.
 
Re different advice: isn't hindsight wonderful too! :)

I noticed vet bedding at £20 a metre at a pet store - can't remember how wide the roll was. I had wondered about the washing too cos at the moment we do a lot of laundry but might try a small quantity and see how I get on. It looked soft but I imagine the hay must get caught up in it.
 
same goes for drinking bottles - some say its horrid to use bottles as the poor piggies have to get their head in an unnatural position to drink, etc. and they would only use bowls. others say they dont have the time to clean out the waterbowls four times a day when bedding gets kicked in, so bottles are more hygienic... you can see, the things people believe in are so different and there is so much controverse thinking that you can never do it right for EVERYONE anyway.

That reminds me, I change their water bottle daily but they don't seem to be drinking. However they are weeing a lot so I've stopped worrying about it.
 
yer... i have seen my animals drink fromthe bottle so i know they can so i dont worry... you might not be able to notice that they are drinking coz you are changing it so frequently? lol
 
newpiggies said:
Re different advice: isn't hindsight wonderful too! :)

I noticed vet bedding at £20 a metre at a pet store - can't remember how wide the roll was. I had wondered about the washing too cos at the moment we do a lot of laundry but might try a small quantity and see how I get on. It looked soft but I imagine the hay must get caught up in it.

You can hang the hay in hay racks with a litter tray underneath which keeps most of the hay off it. Then vacuum the poops up daily and brush it down and wash. It washes and dries in a couple of hours but I don't know about you but we have tons of washing anyway and I was beginning to dread cleaning them out due to the extra laundry. Lots of people manage fine though, maybe more organised than me! And the pigs do love it.

I'm going to have some for sale as soon as I've washed it and sorted it out!
 
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