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Advice on Probiotics and Critical Care

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Toffeewoffee

Toffeewoffee

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What pro-biotics would you suggest to give and how, in syringed water and how much and where to buy them from?

And Critical care, through looking on the forum, it seems CC is just like mushed up pellets? Is this the case or are there extra things in it? What would be the benefits of using CC rather than P@H nuggets mushed up?

Sorry for the silly questions, just never dealt with this before or followed threads alike, and am worrying and wanting to be prepared.

Thanks xx
 
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In my predicament this maybe important for me too so thanks for asking!
 
I'll put together some info for the various syringe foods, probiotics and vit C used in supplementary feeding pigs - may take me a while as there's a lot of info to include but I'll try to get it done this afternoon.

Suzy x
 
You may find this old thread about probiotics helpful: http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=46964&highlight=probiotics

Critical Care comes in powder form and has a slightly different composition to pellets and is a little bit easier to syringe in my own experience (if necessary, cut off the tip of a 1ml syringe). However, both will do the trick of getting the necessary fibre into a piggy to keep it going, provdided the pellets are of a good make. Not all piggies like the slightly aniseedy taste of Critical Care.
 
Wiebke said:
You may find this old thread about probiotics helpful: http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=46964&highlight=probiotics

Critical Care comes in powder form and has a slightly different composition to pellets and is a little bit easier to syringe in my own experience (if necessary, cut off the tip of a 1ml syringe). However, both will do the trick of getting the necessary fibre into a piggy to keep it going, provdided the pellets are of a good make. Not all piggies like the slightly aniseedy taste of Critical Care.
Click to expand...

Would P@H nuggets be ok? Just seen another thread about URI's and some of the symptoms match and i'm really worried, my poor boy, i cant wait to get to get a diagnosis later, have been writing down some info to ask about and things to avoid if prescribed.

I'm so worried. 8... What causes URI's?

Thanks Suzy that would be really helpful.

xx
 
Here is more information on URIs: http://www.guinealynx.info/uri.html

They are a bacterial (not viral) infection. This is the time they are most common, especially in view of recent big jumps in temperature. They can hit anytime the immune system is lowered for some reason (stress can be one).
 
Ok, he hasn't had any stress or change of temperature, they're indoor piggies and always have and will be.

Please see my other thread for a full description of how its all happened,

http://theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=82948

but basically he had runny poo's which i noticed sat around 11 am so i kept him off veggies just hay and pellets, he has been eating hay but not too much dry food, just a little, his poo's were back to normal last night which is good, but he is quite lethergic, but normal when he is up and about? rumbling at the girls etc, he has lost a little weight approx 50g he's not really that interested in veggies and has been taking a while to eat the off bit of lettuce, which makes me think dental? I *** been syringing water. His breathing and heat rate seems fine and his body temp has been constant, the girls he are with are both fine, is it contagious if it is a URI?

xx
 
Nuggets/syringe feeds

Burgess Excel
Beneficial Fibre 36%, Crude Fibre 17%, Protein 17%, Oils and Fats 4%, Ash 6%, Calcium 0.9%, Phosphorous 0.50%, Vitamin A 22000iu/kg, Vitamin D3 1500iu/kg, Vitamin E (a-tocopherol acetate) 120mg/kg, Vitamin C 800mg/kg, Copper as cupric sulphate 12mg/kg.

P @ H nuggets
Moisture 10%, Protein 16%, Oils and Fats 3%, Fibre 16%, Ash 6.5%.
No info for Calcium or Vit C content.

Supreme Science Recovery
Fibre 20%, Protein 17%, Oils 2%, Vit C 10mg/kg, Calcium is listed as min 1.2% (As it contains 30% alfalfa this product seems to be high in calcium)
NB – If feeding Recovery please supplement with additional Vit C as it is very low.

Still looking for the Recovery Plus values as this contain extra Vit C – will add in another post if I can find it.

Critical Care (Green pack)
Fibre 23%, Protein 16%, Oils 3%, Vit C 10,000mg/kg, Calcium is listed as 0.6%
The Fine Grind version (brown pack has similar values)

I use Burgess Excel for the majority of the syringe feeding I do here at the rescue with Vit C and probiotic added. 2 tablespoons of nuggets, add warm water to cover, stand for 10 mins, mash with the back of a fork. If the pig will eat by themselves offer in a bowl or on a spoon, if they will not eating voluntarily add more water to allow it to be syringed. Aim for 20-30 ml per feed, 120 ml over 24 hrs if the pig is not eating for themselves.

I use Critical Care for the very poorly pigs but add a probiotic as well.


Probiotics
Avipro – Vit C 5,000mg/kg, Lactobacillus acidophilus >2.5x10/14cfu
Pro C – Vit C 2,500mg/kg, Lactobacillus acidophilus>1x10/14cfu

I use Probiotic Avipro as it is higher in Vit C and the good bacteria. Avipro does not have the added calcium that Pro C has, although it is not listed on the contents.


Vit C supplements

Be careful with Vit C as too much can have on adverse effect on calcium in the body – more needs to be researched on this (someone care to do it?).

Some Vit C is combined with calcium to stabilise the product, be sure to check the contents list.

I use Lamberts Vit C (ascorbic acid), 1g = 1000mg. (1/4 teaspoon = 1g).

HTH

Suzy x
 
Thanks Suzy thats great! I have only really proof read it, but will read into it better.

OH has just weighed him and he has lost 66g since Saturday, now weighs 1093g obviously any weight loss isn't a good sign but should i be alarmed? I;m so worried about my poor boy.

Any help advice or reassurance would be much appreciated, i am at work and really panicking xx
 
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Please have him seen by a vet - 2oz weight loss and lethargy mean that something (not necessarily URI) is not right. Only a proper vet can make a diagnosis. We simply can't do this on here without a good and thorough check on your boy.

PS: Burgess Excel pellets mush very quickly (not good for piggy back teeth, but good for ill piggies!). P@h pellets will certainly do in a pinch until you have a diagnosis and can plan on the treatment.

Avipro plus probiotics are available over the internet or from your vets (to cover you until delivery). I useit, too, as I have bladder problem piggies.
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/index.php?ma...nid=jj4stfnrafvg11taj0064eqcf7&keyword=avipro
http://www.vetuk.co.uk/rabbit-suppl...197/oxbow-critical-care-for-herbivores-p-2426
 
He is booked to see the vet at half 5 tonight so dont worry, i just want to be prepared with as much info as poss for when we go, as you can imagine it is really hard for me being stuck at work waiting for the time to come to take him, OH is with him and he seems fine in himself up and about munching on hay and cucumber.

thanks for the help, i just wanted some reassurance until we get a proper diagnosis later. x
 
He is booked to see the vet at half 5 tonight so dont worry, i just want to be prepared with as much info as poss for when we go, as you can imagine it is really hard for me being stuck at work waiting for the time to come to take him, OH is with him and he seems fine in himself up and about munching on hay and cucumber.

thanks for the help, i just wanted some reassurance until we get a proper diagnosis later. x
 
I just wanted to wish you good luck at the vets try not to worry to much. I would also start syringing feeding tonight.

x
 
Thank you, i am going to take some pellets with me and ask them to show me how to do it properly, the last thing i want to do is try to help him and he ends up inhaling it!

I am a very over cautious, over protective piggy mummy is distress. I will do all i can to help him however it may be whatever the cost, i just want him well again. x
 
Thank you, i am going to take some pellets with me and ask them to show me how to do it properly, the last thing i want to do is try to help him and he ends up inhaling it!

I am a very over cautious, over protective piggy mummy is distress. I will do all i can to help him however it may be whatever the cost, i just want him well again. x
 
I think Suzy has given plenty of info regarding the products for syringe feeding.

Personally I prefer to use CC over mushed pellets, because I "feel" like it's more fibrous and requires more digestion than mushed pellets, whether or not this is true, I don't know!

As others have said, even though he's still eating by himself, he's obviously not eating well enough to warrant not syringe feeding (even if only as a top up) as he's losing weight.

One tip that may be useful that I found while Cameo was unwell (she was syringe fed for over 3 weeks), was that after about 5-7 days she really started to fight the syringe feeding - so I switched from CC to supreme recovery, and she couldn't get enough of it. After a few days of this, she'd start to fight it again - I actually found that switching between CC or supreme recovery would get her re-interested - whether it was the smell, or the flavour or what, I don't know! Just be careful if it does come to chopping and changing powdered feeds/smushed pellets etc. that you're supplementing the Vit C as needed.

I also found that giving probiotics (I used avipro long term in the end after trying a few types) and other medications was much easier when it was dissolved in watered down pureed fruit - again, it must have been taste?!
 
Ok, thanks you so much for the reply, and the tip, i tried to get him to take some mush quite a few times but we both ended up covered in it rather than him eating it and i wasn't confident enough to syringe but will ask the vet to show me how tonight and i will do it.

Should everything be readily available at the vets, i.e the CC, probiotics and vit c suppliments, supreme recovery etc.

thanks xx
 
Ok, thanks you so much for the reply, and the tip, i tried to get him to take some mush quite a few times but we both ended up covered in it rather than him eating it and i wasn't confident enough to syringe but will ask the vet to show me how tonight and i will do it.

Should everything be readily available at the vets, i.e the CC, probiotics and vit c suppliments, supreme recovery etc.

thanks xx
 
The vets should have some products. I had to ring round several to find some with CC in stock once.

www.vetuk.co.uk are very fast with delivery if not, can definately recomend them.
 
Just caught up with this thread, some very useful points which I have saved in a word document as i'm sure the time will come when I too am in need of this info!

How did it go at the vets, sending all my healing vibes his way.....
 
Well my Oh said he was pretty much back to his normal self this afternoon, but his back teeth were very slightly overgrown, they have now been cut down, the vet had a very good intense look and feel over him for anything else, he is well hydrated, still a healthy weight, his heat and lungs are good and clear his eyes and nose and clear and there is no sign of gas or bloat or any stones etc etc. After she had sorted his teeth out she gave him a couple of spinach leaves which he ate, and also a few dry pellets which he also ate. After all of that she gave him a drop of metacam and advised to give .04 mls of baytril for a few days and monitor him closly, she said soften some pellets for him and see if he will take them if not then force soften ones in (which she did) as he does eat them. keep syringing little amount of water and offering veggies. She said if there is no improvement then to take him back the end of this week.

It was horrible seeing him being wrapped in a towel and contraptions put his his mouth, there was still some food from earlier in there that he hadn't been able to digest so she has cleared all of that out.

Were now home and he is back in with the girls feeling pretty sorry for himself, he hasn't touched any food or hay, he has just been sitting in the same spot, will get him out later and offer him some soft pellets, if not will force them.

Thank you for all of your help and replies, i feel better now knowing what the problem is and will still monitor him very closely, weigh him daily and of course keep you informed.
xx
 
Well my Oh said he was pretty much back to his normal self this afternoon, but his back teeth were very slightly overgrown, they have now been cut down, the vet had a very good intense look and feel over him for anything else, he is well hydrated, still a healthy weight, his heat and lungs are good and clear his eyes and nose and clear and there is no sign of gas or bloat or any stones etc etc. After she had sorted his teeth out she gave him a couple of spinach leaves which he ate, and also a few dry pellets which he also ate. After all of that she gave him a drop of metacam and advised to give .04 mls of baytril for a few days and monitor him closly, she said soften some pellets for him and see if he will take them if not then force soften ones in (which she did) as he does eat them. keep syringing little amount of water and offering veggies. She said if there is no improvement then to take him back the end of this week.

It was horrible seeing him being wrapped in a towel and contraptions put his his mouth, there was still some food from earlier in there that he hadn't been able to digest so she has cleared all of that out.

Were now home and he is back in with the girls feeling pretty sorry for himself, he hasn't touched any food or hay, he has just been sitting in the same spot, will get him out later and offer him some soft pellets, if not will force them.

Thank you for all of your help and replies, i feel better now knowing what the problem is and will still monitor him very closely, weigh him daily and of course keep you informed.
xx
 
Can anyone tell me if they have used this apple and banana flavour CC and if their piggy liked it?

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/critical_care

I have contacted oxbow direct, as i couldn't see the apple and banana flavour on vetuk's website.

Nearly finished the pack we bought last week so need some more, my boy doesn't really like the original oxbow CC that i got from vets so still has to be force fed, so i'm hoping he will like this apple and banana one.

Thanks
 
Can anyone tell me if they have used this apple and banana flavour CC and if their piggy liked it?

http://www.oxbowanimalhealth.com/vets/products/critical_care

I have contacted oxbow direct, as i couldn't see the apple and banana flavour on vetuk's website.

Nearly finished the pack we bought last week so need some more, my boy doesn't really like the original oxbow CC that i got from vets so still has to be force fed, so i'm hoping he will like this apple and banana one.

Thanks
 
I will see if i can get it online as non of the pet shops around me sell it, but looks like the P&P is more than the nuggets when buying online! so inc P&P is like just under £10 for a 2kg bag. Will keep looking.

Thank Debbie x
 
I will see if i can get it online as non of the pet shops around me sell it, but looks like the P&P is more than the nuggets when buying online! so inc P&P is like just under £10 for a 2kg bag. Will keep looking.

Thank Debbie x
 
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