Advice on top sow, submissive sow with babies and a boar

MidFray

MidFray

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Hello,
I've read through a few posts similar to my situation and read the behaviour guides and babies, however i feel i still have questions for my situation and sorry it comes with a story! Please help :)

I rescued two sows and had a surprise pregnant piggie! I also rescued a neutered boar a week later. The original plan was to have 1 neutered boar to 2 sows.
Prior to the neutered boar, the sows were in a group and had been living together. It is very clear the one is dominant, the pregnant piggie is very submissive and will run at any opportunity.
I was worried as when i had cleaned the cage, the dominant became very aggressive to the submissive, fur raised, chasing and nipping and teeth chattering.(even though the other piggie was squeeling and was not confrontational at all) It seemed to have calmed down and within a few days they were sharing the food bowl (there would be the odd nip/launch 'get out my way' from the dominant)

I've also noticed the dominant was very grumpy in seasons and would chase and hump alot too.
I added the neutered boar and the dominant accepted him and actually seems to like him more than the submissive sow.

However, this all changed as i separated the submissive sow into a maternity area. She now has 2 week old babies.
I have put them all in a run together for floor time and they all seemed very good. The grumpy dominant sow seemed ok with the babies, definitely told them to back off if they came within suckling range and she didn't interact with momma pig. The boar seems fine with the babies. A lot of sniffing and popcorning! (The babies followed him popcorning too)

So I put them all in the cage after a few meets in the run. (They all see each other through the bars)

The dominant pig seemed her usual grumpy self and keeping away from the babies, she'd eat by their side but tell them to clear off on her terms. However she seemed to have taken a dislike to the submissive sow. Poor momma pig was petrified and running out her way. I don't understand the dominants problem. She seemed fear aggressive. Putting herself in the corner, low chattering, fur raised, and if the submissive came into an opposite corner, she'd lunged and chase her. It wasn't nice to see, they spent some time in separate areas in the cage but even when momma had her back to her, she's charged and nip her. It did calm down and there was small moments where they were close just grazing and ignored each other.

I have separated the momma and babies but they'd only been in for 1 day. I think I've gone wrong by doing that as I've read that can cause it to start all over if i put them back.
Had i added momma and babies too early?
The dominant sow seems very sensitive to change. I have thought whether the dominant is happy and should I consider her going to the rescue and she seems happy with a neutered boar.

The other reason i added them all together is that i need the second cage to put the 2 baby boars at 250g/3 weeks so thought it would be good to socialise them as a large herd before the boys go as a pair.


Sorry for long message. I want to make sure they're all happy furry potatoes.

Thank you
 
Whether the mum sow will be accepted back by the dominant is very much up to the piggies. If the dominant sow is happy with her boar and doesn’t want her back then there may be nothing you can do.
as you had separated the pregnant sow out, then i personally wouldn’t have put them back together while the babies are with mum as it causes upheaval in the hierarchy and as the baby boars will never be able to live with them, there is no real benefit in doing any introduction.
i would now wait until the baby boars have to be separated and then try mum back with the other sow and neutered boar and see how it goes when she isn’t with her babies. It may sadly be that she is not able to live with them again though so it’s something to keep in mind with the potential future living arrangements.

This guide has a section for trying to reunite mum with previous companion
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/after-birth-mother-and-baby-care.109389/
 
Piggies&buns said:
Whether the mum sow will be accepted back by the dominant is very much up to the piggies. If the dominant sow is happy with her boar and doesn’t want her back then there may be nothing you can do.
as you had separated the pregnant sow out, then i personally wouldn’t have put them back together while the babies are with mum as it causes upheaval in the hierarchy and as the baby boars will never be able to live with them, there is no real benefit in doing any introduction.
i would now wait until the baby boars have to be separated and then try mum back with the other sow and neutered boar and see how it goes when she isn’t with her babies. It may sadly be that she is not able to live with them again though so it’s something to keep in mind with the potential future living arrangements.

This guide has a section for trying to reunite mum with previous companion
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/after-birth-mother-and-baby-care.109389/
Click to expand...

Thank you for your advice, i appreciate it. I plan to keep the two baby girls. Should i introduce them all together?
I had the 3 adults out on my sofa together and they seemed quite relaxed, at one point the dominant sow lay down next to momma.
I feel there is hope. I didn't realise how complex their social ways are. I really have my fingers and toes crossed for this to work and be harmonious.
 
If they’re separated for now then you can do floor time, lap time or any ‘together’ time at all. It’s stressful for them with having to meet and get sorted then separated.

Did mum give birth to 4 pups? Could you perhaps keep mum with the two girls? If you do decide to try bonding then you need to introduce them all at the same time. But, as said above, the dominant sow may not accept the mum into her ‘group’.

When you moved them back into the cage together, was this after a few hours in the run or just meets here and there? And did you thoroughly clean and rearrange the cage?’ And was the run area free from the smell of any pig?
 
MidFray said:
Thank you for your advice, i appreciate it. I plan to keep the two baby girls. Should i introduce them all together?
I had the 3 adults out on my sofa together and they seemed quite relaxed, at one point the dominant sow lay down next to momma.
I feel there is hope. I didn't realise how complex their social ways are. I really have my fingers and toes crossed for this to work and be harmonious.
Click to expand...

ok, so you have two sow pups and two boar pups, but you’re rehoming the boys, so you’ll be left with four sows and a neutered boar. Is that right?

You can attempt to introduce all five of them in a neutral space bonding pen, but I wouldn’t do just the adults as the two sow pups also need to form a relationship if you’re going to have a herd. Don’t be surprised if it doesn’t work though. You may well end up with mum and her two daughters living together in one cage and the other sow and her boar as a pair In another cage.
 
Behaviour, Bonding & Bereavement Guides

Have a read through the bonding guides linked above. When you bond them you need to do it in one go, introducing at floor times and lap times and separating again doesn't work, each time they have to start all over again. Good Luck! and Congratulations on your new babies.
 
I thought it would be interesting for those who kindly replied to know of the update. We deep cleaned all the toys and bowls and fresh bed in the new cage and put all 5 in. The dominant female did chase and show a lot of dominating, however a change in dynamics! The boar seemed to take well to the momma pigs and 2 females and seems to prioritise them over the dominant. The dominant female now gets along with momma, she will some times tell her to move out the way or have a nip if she's too close. However she seems to have dropped down in the pecking order as the boy will chase her now and again and she's very respectful to his authority. So the boar has settled the females down. The two sister sows have started to have a few squabbles and 'face offs' but they are 6 weeks and i think working out who's going to be the bossier one as they seem equal at the moment.

So all 5 are happy sleeping/eating/playing with each other, the usual piggie debates now and again but I'm so relieved our herd have stayed 😊😊
 
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