Aggressive Piggie Problems

[fairynosleep]

Hi everyone!

Longtime pig owner, first time poster here!

I’ve had my two girls for 3 years now, and unfortunately about a month ago we sadly lost one of our girls due to a suspected pneumonia/mass. My remaining lady seems in perfect health and has been recently checked out by our exotic vet, well versed in guinea pigs.

HOWEVER! After contacting our local Guinea pig rescue and going through two failed introductions I am starting to feel a little helpless! We have done everything correctly as far as we are aware, neutral ground, a whole room of space etc.

The first introduction was to two other sows, it was going well until my guinea pig decided to challenge the dominant one to which she did not back down - this was after chasing her for a while, it let to a full on furball fight to which I immediately separated them and checked them over for injury - all fine!

THEN! We introduced her to another little neutered boar, about a week later, about 1 year old, it was going so well - she was grooming herself, eating hay, then she began to chase him like crazy, corner him - then settling… but every time he got near her she would chase him, she then lunged at him and a full furball fight occurred - unfortunately both piggies suffered injuries, quite minor but still a few bites. Even though he was exhibiting such submissive behaviour, high pitch squeaking, running away, backing down from the head nods, giving her space… she still attacked him. Our girl is being checked out tomorrow by the vet just to make sure she is 100% okay, and the rescue will be collecting the little man soon as well.

What do we do?! I would hate to try another introduction only to result in injuries, but at the the same time she appears to be so lonely without her companion. She is getting less confident as time goes on without her friend, she is such a timid pig anyway, I know she needs a friend but we don’t know what to do at this point! She was never aggressive with her previous companion, and was the submissive one out of the two!

 

[Piggies&buns]

I’m sorry for your loss.

She sounds like she might be fear aggressive. She could be feeling lost and out of her depth but struggling to know how to react to other piggies so essentially overreacts due to being scared. This can be tricky to overcome. For some sows they may never accept a new friend to live in the same cage but they obviously can’t be kept totally alone. The solution is for them to live in their own cage but with neighbours in a side by side cage. This can be either another single piggy in a separate side by side cage or it can be a bonded pair living beside.
Obviously this is a big decision as it means you would need to have the space for two cages (of appropriate sizes) side by side.

Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

 

[fairynosleep]

I’m sorry for your loss.

She sounds like she might be fear aggressive. She could be feeling lost and out of her depth but struggling to know how to react to other piggies so essentially overreacts due to being scared. This can be tricky to overcome. For some sows they may never accept a new friend to live in the same cage but they obviously can’t be kept totally alone. The solution is for them to live in their own cage but with neighbours in a side by side cage. This can be either another single piggy in a separate side by side cage or it can be a bonded pair living beside.
Obviously this is a big decision as it means you would need to have the space for two cages (of appropriate sizes) side by side.

Moody Guinea Pigs: Depression, Bullying, Aggression, Stress, Fear and Antisocial Behaviour

Thank you for your reply!

Yes I see what you mean, it really does seem like fear-aggression.

I suppose my only worry is how would I be able to ensure that the transition goes smoothly? If she is fear-aggressive would she try to attack them through the bars or perhaps feel more stressed? She’s currently in a L shape 7x2 which I am thinking of dividing into a 4x2 for two and 3x2 for my girl (can increase too!). I can’t really find much resources on how to house them as neighbours efficiently!

 

[Piggies&buns]

You literally just need to split the cages to be beside each other. Your plan for sizing is fine - A 3x2 is minimum for a single.
There is going to be interest between the bars but most piggies live happily side by side as they aren’t sharing territory. You do sometimes see territorial behaviours but they tend to settle down once they are used to the arrangement.

I have two boys who live as neighbours after their bond broke down.

 

[fairynosleep]

You literally just need to split the cages to be beside each other. Your plan for sizing is fine - A 3x2 is minimum for a single.
There is going to be interest between the bars but most piggies live happily side by side as they aren’t sharing territory. You do sometimes see territorial behaviours but they tend to settle down once they are used to the arrangement.

I have two boys who live as neighbours after their bond broke down.

Ah I see, thank you!

Do you think after a few months as neighbours there would be potential to introduce them together? Or better to stay on the safe side?

 

[Piggies&buns]

You could try but do note that trying to combine an already bonded pair of adult sows with your single adult girl, then that is the combination most likely to fail. This is because an already bonded adult pair can be much less likely to want another piggy to join them. It’s not a given but it’s the combination that tends to fail most in forum experience.
If they settle side by side and everyone is happy then sometimes you’re better off not to rock things and to instead leave them as a single and a pair. (or two side by side singles if that is the route you took).

It can be more likely to be successful (still not a guarantee) to combine a trio if the two new piggies are babies. This is because babies will not challenge your single sow for dominance while they are still young. However, a trio in general can run the risk of the outsider situation occurring - not always, there are many successful trios but it is something to keep in mind.
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your loss and for your bonding issues. You are clearly a very loving owner.

Unfortunately, some piggies can be very insecure in themselves and then overreact. That is not at all rare especially in piggies coming out of a long term bond that goes way back to babyhood. Other piggies, especially older sows, will refuse to accept a new leader and be happier with their own territory. I had times when I had up four of them living in adjoining pens. One would eventually move in with her sister and her gentle 'toy boy' hubby. Two would take 10 months and several aborted bonding attempts (just when the fear-aggression behaviour started to take on) but who kept on interacting through the bars until 5 years old Tegan realised that 8 years old Calli, having been the butt of her dominant sister all her life, just needed to have her rumblestrutting show to make her point that she was not a challenge to her leadership.
The fourth was dumped human orientated single Beryn took one and a half years to find a gentle squishy lady who was patient enough to allow Beryn to work through her issues in bonding sessions that lasted just as long as she went on overload again but with gentle Betsan signalling her willingness to continue while they were living next to each other. Betsan sadly passed a away just a year later, just before the pandemic so Beryn never found another friend but was fine with living alongside the suitor who failed most closely until her death in summer 2021.

Brathlys

You may additionally find these links here interesting and thought provoking.

Ah I see, thank you!

Do you think after a few months as neighbours there would be potential to introduce them together? Or better to stay on the safe side?

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your loss and your bonding problems. You are clearly a very loving and caring owner.

In my own experiences with adopting stuck in rescue piggies with bonding issues and with bereaved regular piggies, longer term next door neighbourship can sometimes do the trick and sometimes it won't. Any bondings have taken all my experience and reading of the body language to cut an attempt short just at the moment the fear-aggressive piggy was starting to go on overload and it has also relied on the prospective companion still wanting to continue.

Piggies coming out of a life-long bond since babyhood can be very insecure since bonding is not something they have ever experienced and they can feel extremely insecure with meeting a stronger newbie they cannot totally dominate from the start.

It has to be a totally new piggy in any case; preferably a submissive or very gentle one; it can be gentle, non-aggressive neutered boar or two baby girls.

You may also find these links here interesting in understanding more about fear-aggression:
Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context
The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society

 

[fairynosleep]

You could try but do note that trying to combine an already bonded pair of adult sows with your single adult girl, then that is the combination most likely to fail. This is because an already bonded adult pair can be much less likely to want another piggy to join them. It’s not a given but it’s the combination that tends to fail most in forum experience.
If they settle side by side and everyone is happy then sometimes you’re better off not to rock things and to instead leave them as a single and a pair. (or two side by side singles if that is the route you took).

It can be more likely to be successful (still not a guarantee) to combine a trio if the two new piggies are babies. This is because babies will not challenge your single sow for dominance while they are still young. However, a trio in general can run the risk of the outsider situation occurring - not always, there are many successful trios but it is something to keep in mind.
Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

Ah I see! I had no idea! I will definitely keep this in mind thank you so much!

 

[fairynosleep]

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your loss and for your bonding issues. You are clearly a very loving owner.

Unfortunately, some piggies can be very insecure in themselves and then overreact. That is not at all rare especially in piggies coming out of a long term bond that goes way back to babyhood. Other piggies, especially older sows, will refuse to accept a new leader and be happier with their own territory. I had times when I had up four of them living in adjoining pens. One would eventually move in with her sister and her gentle 'toy boy' hubby. Two would take 10 months and several aborted bonding attempts (just when the fear-aggression behaviour started to take on) but who kept on interacting through the bars until 5 years old Tegan realised that 8 years old Calli, having been the butt of her dominant sister all her life, just needed to have her rumblestrutting show to make her point that she was not a challenge to her leadership.
The fourth was dumped human orientated single Beryn took one and a half years to find a gentle squishy lady who was patient enough to allow Beryn to work through her issues in bonding sessions that lasted just as long as she went on overload again but with gentle Betsan signalling her willingness to continue while they were living next to each other. Betsan sadly passed a away just a year later, just before the pandemic so Beryn never found another friend but was fine with living alongside the suitor who failed most closely until her death in summer 2021.

Brathlys

You may additionally find these links here interesting and thought provoking.


Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for your loss and your bonding problems. You are clearly a very loving and caring owner.

In my own experiences with adopting stuck in rescue piggies with bonding issues and with bereaved regular piggies, longer term next door neighbourship can sometimes do the trick and sometimes it won't. Any bondings have taken all my experience and reading of the body language to cut an attempt short just at the moment the fear-aggressive piggy was starting to go on overload and it has also relied on the prospective companion still wanting to continue.

Piggies coming out of a life-long bond since babyhood can be very insecure since bonding is not something they have ever experienced and they can feel extremely insecure with meeting a stronger newbie they cannot totally dominate from the start.

It has to be a totally new piggy in any case; preferably a submissive or very gentle one; it can be gentle, non-aggressive neutered boar or two baby girls.

You may also find these links here interesting in understanding more about fear-aggression:
Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context
The Herd, the Group and I: Investigating Guinea Pig Identity and Society

Hi! Thank you!

Yes they were together since they were babies and I don’t think they’ve had any interaction with other piggies other than at the vet perhaps!

It is strange as the neutered boar we tried to introduce her to is so so submissive. I think she just struggled to read his body language, not letting him get anywhere near her even if he was headed towards somewhere else. He’s due back today - but she keeps looking so forlornly from her cage to his! She keeps starting a chat with him as well.

I may ask the rescue if they have any baby girls, but even just from the little boar being in the same room she seems much more active. Gives me some hope that she would be happy with neighbours! And perhaps that would give her time to not perceive them as threats

Thank you so much for your help!

 

[Wiebke]

Hi! Thank you!

Yes they were together since they were babies and I don’t think they’ve had any interaction with other piggies other than at the vet perhaps!

It is strange as the neutered boar we tried to introduce her to is so so submissive. I think she just struggled to read his body language, not letting him get anywhere near her even if he was headed towards somewhere else. He’s due back today - but she keeps looking so forlornly from her cage to his! She keeps starting a chat with him as well.

I may ask the rescue if they have any baby girls, but even just from the little boar being in the same room she seems much more active. Gives me some hope that she would be happy with neighbours! And perhaps that would give her time to not perceive them as threats

Thank you so much for your help!

I would give her much more time with him next door. It took me about three months before my Sulwen (highly fear-aggressive newly bereaved intake from a then forum member) gradually made friends through the bars with my returnee, gentle Merlin. They are now happily bonded. He is about half her size.

The same and some slow bonding also worked for my Brathlys, who was found abandoned in a winter garden up North by a neighbour weeks after her owners had moved out and taken the hutch with them or sold it. She was really messed up and even after half a year in rescue, she kept biting people and was highly fear-aggressive with other piggies. Anyway, some piggy whispering took care of the biting within two weeks (she kept on tweaking me but only occasionally when she was not happy) and within about a couple of months was bonded with Alan, who spent most of his neutering post-op wait next to her. It was a very off and on slow process as Lissie kept giving him very mixed messages but as he couldn't land it with any other iffy ladies of mine, in the end they did become a pair until his sadly early death. But she accepted a baby girl who fell in love with their neighbouring boar (it was love on first bum sight) who joined them as a widower so Brathlys had company until the end of her life at an estimated 6 years or so and was happy.
Brathlys (Lissie)

I hope that this helps you?
My hardest nut was Beryn, but she was very obviously a much loved human-orientated ex-single who was found wandering the grounds of a cricket club. I suspect domestic abuse in her case since nobody got in touch with the RSPCA from where I adopted her. It took me one and a half years to find a suitable companion (the squishiest and kindest soul imaginable) and even then the bonding took three weeks with the girls living next door all the while for Beryn to work through her issues. I had to separate as soon each time as Beryn started to go into overload. But old Betsan each time assured Beryn through the bars that she still wanted to be friends with her. Sadly Betsan died just before the pandemic so Beryn had to live the next one and a half years next to the only pair she didn't pick up a feud through the bars (her closest bonding fail and his tiny wife who wasn't any challenge to Beryn).

Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context

 

[Mon59]

THEN! We introduced her to another little neutered boar, about a week later, about 1 year old, it was going so well - she was grooming herself, eating hay, then she began to chase him like crazy, corner him - then settling… but every time he got near her she would chase him, she then lunged at him and a full furball fight occurred - unfortunately both piggies suffered injuries, quite minor but still a few bites

Ah. I’m a bit confused again about bonding ? Once you get a replacement from a rescue that ‘seemed’ to go well then it doesn’t seem fair to replace until they bond

I got a lovely friendly unneutared Boar to replace one of my two sows who had to be pts in May.

They had a trial date at the Rescue and all seemed well until about 3 hours at home when she rejected him. Terrorised him into a corner and chased and chased until they fought. He is at least 1.5 times her size and would seriously hurt her . They weren’t play fighting but had some serious face to face teeth encounters until I separated them.

The problem is definitely the sow. He wasn’t trying to mount her, just clinging on to a corner for hours. He is a very friendly pig and never shows any aggression.

So now they live happily in 2 3x2 C&C separated by a divider. He often shows interest in her but she ignores him. ……Shame ……

Should I try again ? The size difference puts me off because he could probably kill her if provoked.

 

[fairynosleep]

I would give her much more time with him next door. It took me about three months before my Sulwen (highly fear-aggressive newly bereaved intake from a then forum member) gradually made friends through the bars with my returnee, gentle Merlin. They are now happily bonded. He is about half her size.

The same and some slow bonding also worked for my Brathlys, who was found abandoned in a winter garden up North by a neighbour weeks after her owners had moved out and taken the hutch with them or sold it. She was really messed up and even after half a year in rescue, she kept biting people and was highly fear-aggressive with other piggies. Anyway, some piggy whispering took care of the biting within two weeks (she kept on tweaking me but only occasionally when she was not happy) and within about a couple of months was bonded with Alan, who spent most of his neutering post-op wait next to her. It was a very off and on slow process as Lissie kept giving him very mixed messages but as he couldn't land it with any other iffy ladies of mine, in the end they did become a pair until his sadly early death. But she accepted a baby girl who fell in love with their neighbouring boar (it was love on first bum sight) who joined them as a widower so Brathlys had company until the end of her life at an estimated 6 years or so and was happy.
Brathlys (Lissie)

I hope that this helps you?
My hardest nut was Beryn, but she was very obviously a much loved human-orientated ex-single who was found wandering the grounds of a cricket club. I suspect domestic abuse in her case since nobody got in touch with the RSPCA from where I adopted her. It took me one and a half years to find a suitable companion (the squishiest and kindest soul imaginable) and even then the bonding took three weeks with the girls living next door all the while for Beryn to work through her issues. I had to separate as soon each time as Beryn started to go into overload. But old Betsan each time assured Beryn through the bars that she still wanted to be friends with her. Sadly Betsan died just before the pandemic so Beryn had to live the next one and a half years next to the only pair she didn't pick up a feud through the bars (her closest bonding fail and his tiny wife who wasn't any challenge to Beryn).

Guinea Pig Behaviours in their Context

That’s such a reassuring story to hear about your piggies, Sulwen and Merlin sound exactly like my two at the moment! My girl is an absolute mammoth next to little bean.

I’ve moved him out of the same room for now to see if her eating picks up a bit, I think she’s lost a bit of weight because of the stress of these past few weeks of attempted bonding and she seems to be perking up a bit after moving him out. She’s just been put on some softer antibiotics (co-trimoxazole) for a slight swelling under her bite wound, so once she’s well and calm I think we’ll try and find her some neighbours to befriend on her own terms and her own space!

Hopefully her appetite and laziness begin to pick up again soon - she’s still eating but has lost 70g or so the last week so the vet suggested I keep an eye on her, she seemed fine until the failed introductions. Just a bit traumatised from the passing of my other girl, so much syringe feeding and worry with her! Though she’s not suffering anymore

Wow I can’t believe how long it can truly take to find the right companion! That’s so awful they left poor beryn the way they did, and even more heart breaking that she was so human oriented after all of that!

I’ll take my time for sure now in finding her friend, especially now that I know her temperament towards other piggies as well as her fear-aggression issues. Thank you!