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Am I kidding myself she will recover?

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clair26

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I adopted Poppy in April 10, her then owners didn't seem sure but said they thought she was just over one years old.
Since she has lived with us, she has been very lively, vocal and always the first there when it's veggie time. Her appetite was always the best out of all the piggies.
About a week ago, she started to shun veggies, and for the next few days sat hunched in the corner getting thinner, I hoped it was a phase and just kept an eye on her, 2 days later she was bleeding from the back end. I noticed her anal area was protruding, but was unsure whether that was due to her becoming very thin. Poppy is also messy around that area, despite numerous attempts at cleaning.
I took her to the vet who took her temperature, said she had a fever, gave her an anti biotic injection, some supreme recovery feed, and told me to come back the next day. Went back; she was then given a pain relief injection, and some oral anti biotics and told to come back in 3 days. She is also squeaking whilst toileting (don't know if its pee or poop or both).
Over the course of the 3 days the bleeding stopped and she started picking at food. Took her back to the vet who said Poppy had lost even more weight and suggested it was time to put her to sleep.
I asked if I could persevere with the care (syringe feeding and anti biotics twice a day) rather than give up on her. The vet agreed and told me to bring her back in 3/4 days.

Since then she has shown more interest in food, spends around 70 percent of her time in the corner (less than previously) hunched up, drinking lots, starting to take interest in hay again. Poppy is still squeaking when toileting though. She is interacting more with her cagemates. Little improvements I see.

Am I kidding myself that she is improving enough? or am I being selfish because I cannot bear to part with her? Is 6 full days of anti-biotics enough to know for sure either way?

Watching her right now munching on some romaine lettuce and spinach, it seems unthinkable to have her put to sleep, but am I in denial of the bigger picture?
 
Poor guinea! I know its very hard to make that decision, to keep her or to let her go. Don't you think she has lot of pain when she's toileting?

I wish you all the best with her! And hope you can make the right decision!
 
Have they checked for stones?

Have you been given a probiotic for her?

With syringe feeding you need to be getting a lot into her if she isn't eating much - atleast 120ml a day
 
Have they checked for stones?

Have you been given a probiotic for her?

With syringe feeding you need to be getting a lot into her if she isn't eating much - atleast 120ml a day

The vet thought it was either an infection or a tumor, but from feeling her they said it was unlikely to be a tumor.

No I wasnt given probiotic, can I buy that myself?

I am syringe feeding her a lot, she hated it at first, but think she just lets me get on with it now to get it over with.

I am in such a dilemma, I know I cannot live with the guilt if I agree to her being PTS after having witnessed some improvements albeit small ones. I will forever think, what if?
 
We recently had to make this decision for our Pitch and it was the hardest decision we've ever made. I cant say what you should do but several people told me that i would know when the time for PTS had to happen and they were right.
I think if you are having doubts then it is proberly not time, when we did put pitch to sleep we knew there was no way for her to keep going on and even though it hurt so much there was no option. I think you will know when the time is right.
 
Poor guinea! I know its very hard to make that decision, to keep her or to let her go. Don't you think she has lot of pain when she's toileting?

I wish you all the best with her! And hope you can make the right decision!

Yes I do think she is in pain while toileting, but keep thinking if it is an infection, that will clear up with the anti biotics given enough time.

I want to do what is best for Poppy, but I don't want to give up on her without a fight. I love her so much and the thought of her being PTS has me in tears.
 
Well probiotic may help to give her a better guy function. You can buy ones like Avipro Plus or there is one from Pets at home that people like - Vetark or something?

Blood can usually indicate bladder or kidney stones and usually an x-ray would make sure whether there was or not.

Could even be a UTI (urinary tract infection) if the blood is from the urine
 
We recently had to make this decision for our Pitch and it was the hardest decision we've ever made. I cant say what you should do but several people told me that i would know when the time for PTS had to happen and they were right.
I think if you are having doubts then it is proberly not time, when we did put pitch to sleep we knew there was no way for her to keep going on and even though it hurt so much there was no option. I think you will know when the time is right.

Thank you.
I hope I will know if/when. I am sitting here in tears at the mere thought of losing my baby.
 
I'm sorry it is an awful dilemma to be in.

I would definately ask for an xray and/or ultra sound to rule out bladder or kidney stones. If you can do everything to find a diagnosis then you will be able to know if her condition is treatable and if she will turn a corner and improve some more.
 
What antibiotics did the vet give her?
 
I'm really sorry that you are going through this.
Rest assured you will always do what is best for Poppy because you love her.
thinking of you and sending you a big hug
 
Thank you to everyone for their input.

The antibiotic is enrofloxacin 2.5% 0.1ml twice daily

I am off out to get some vetark pro c from pets at home now (with big red eyes unfortunately)
She is going back to the vet tomorrow (4 visits in one week...I should move in!) I will ask about xray for stones.
 
Yes get some probiotics and give that to her - if she is on something like baytril, that can be harsh to the gut so its best to get something to keep it functioning well.

I'd def push to get an x-ray - so you can def rule out stones or not.
 
i dont have any advise but thought i would share my story with you. Hope you dont mind.

on friday 21 crumble stopped eating on sat 22 we took her to the vet they took her temp checked her all over, weighed her gave her a gut stimilant injection and a painkiller, gave us some supreme recovery and we went home, told to go back if she didnt improve, took her back on monday she had lost 70g we has been syringe feeding her, she wasnt eating anything or drinking just sitting she hadnt been to the toilet for 2 days.

monday she was given another painkiller, we went home kept feeding her. phoned the vets on tuesday as no improvement and they gave us baytril and metacam to give her twice a day. we did this whilst trying to get her to eat wednesday she started eating small amounts of kale and spinach (3 to 4 bites) she got slowly better at eating a bit more. friday she ate some cucumber, green bean and carrot had lots of syringed foods i thought yes she is getting better.

saturday she refused food completely took her back to the vet she had lost another 100g, we had 2 options leave her at the vet for them to inject and try and feed her up or have her pts. i spoke honestly to the vet and asked if she thought crumble would pick up if i left her there and she said she wasnt sure but with that amount of weightloss and no reason that they could find for not eating it wasn't likely, but we could try.

crumble sat in the same place all day in between feedings not moving. so i decided to have her pts I'm sure people would say i should of fought for her but she had no life not eating not drinking not moving. so last saturday i had her pts, i cried so much but it was in her best interests in the end i think.
Crumble was only 14 months old.

so at the end of the day its up to you, only you know your piggy. good luck with whatever you decide.

sorry for the long post.

Laura x

ps: all through the whole week i kept saying she would get better and be back to the piggy she was.
 
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Yes I do think she is in pain while toileting, but keep thinking if it is an infection, that will clear up with the anti biotics given enough time.

I want to do what is best for Poppy, but I don't want to give up on her without a fight. I love her so much and the thought of her being PTS has me in tears.

I understand its al very sad! I hope she will be oke! Can't gif you any advise
unfortunately, I don't know the English medications.
 
Hi Clair,

Sorry to hear about Poppy being poorly, but I'm so glad that she has picked up and started to nibble some food.

I'd definately suggest getting a Probiotic, just to kick start her gut mobility again.........it is very good stuff you know. :)

I think that you're giving her a chance................okay, if she is in pain when trying for the toilet (wee/poop), then maybe something can be done to ascertain where the problem may lay............ie a scan/ultrasound.

Was going to say that my Daisy was squeaking when weeing, but there was blood in her water............turned out she had a bladder stone, but that doesn't mean that Poppy has one, may just have an UTI, which can be relieve by antibiotics.

I think you are also doing a very good job, be positive and see what the vet says. I'm rooting for Poppy. Take care.

Beth xx
 
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i dont have any advise but thought i would share my story with you. Hope you dont mind.

on friday 21 crumble stopped eating on sat 22 we took her to the vet they took her temp checked her all over, weighed her gave her a gut stimilant injection and a painkiller, gave us some supreme recovery and we went home, told to go back if she didnt improve, took her back on monday she had lost 70g we has been syringe feeding her, she wasnt eating anything or drinking just sitting she hadnt been to the toilet for 2 days.

monday she was given another painkiller, we went home kept feeding her. phoned the vets on tuesday as no improvement and they gave us baytril and metacam to give her twice a day. we did this whilst trying to get her to eat wednesday she started eating small amounts of kale and spinach (3 to 4 bites) she got slowly better at eating a bit more. friday she ate some cucumber, green bean and carrot had lots of syringed foods i thought yes she is getting better.

saturday she refused food completely took her back to the vet she had lost another 100g, we had 2 options leave her at the vet for them to inject and try and feed her up or have her pts. i spoke honestly to the vet and asked if she thought crumble would pick up if i left her there and she said she wasnt sure but with that amount of weightloss and no reason that they could find for not eating it wasn't likely, but we could try.

crumble sat in the same place all day in between feedings not moving. so i decided to have her pts I'm sure people would say i should of fought for her but she had no life not eating not drinking not moving. so last saturday i had her pts, i cried so much but it was in her best interests in the end i think.
Crumble was only 14 months old.

so at the end of the day its up to you, only you know your piggy. good luck with whatever you decide.

sorry for the long post.

Laura x

ps: all through the whole week i kept saying she would get better and be back to the piggy she was.

Hi
Thank you for sharing your story, it helped in a weird way. I was reading through and nodding along, it is as though you were talking about Poppy.

Of course, I hope that Poppy can have a happy ending to make a recovery unlike your dear crumble (sorry for your loss), but I definately feel stronger thanks to your story.
 
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I have got the vetark pro C probiotic and she has taken some in water (made up as per instructions)

I feel confident that I am doing all that I can for her, and just hope that luck is shining down on us and she truly turns a corner

Thank you very much to everyone for their wonderful advice and kind words, it is really appreciated. I hope I will have some good news soon to post.
 
Sorry to hear Poppy is not well. Just a few questions to help me understand a bit more if you don't mind. Did the vet test her urine? Was the blood you saw diluted or dark red? Is she pooing and weeing? Are both normal? Is you vet a small animals/exotics specialist?

The antibiotic you have been given is more commonly known as baytril. That doesage is very low for an adult piggy. It is usually atleast twice that. My Kizzy needed 0.35mls twice daily for two weeks to get rid of an eye infection. I would ask the vet for an ultrasound or an x ray. I am not an expert but I personally prefer an ultrasound as many vets will not xray guineas without a sedative. An ultrasound may also perhaps see a blockage or tumour that an xray might not.

I hope she recovers quickly.
 
Hey sweetheart, I haven't read any of the posts apart from yours but can I say...

Last November my guinea pig Africa got sick, he was apprantly slowly dying of liver failure, the kindest thing apprantly was to put him down, but I was his mother and I knew he wasn't ready, he still ate, even though it was very little, drank tons, interacted with me. I couldn't face putting him down either, I just couldn't justifire it, a week before he actually did die I thought he was so bad i would have to, but by the next morning he was 'normal' again. Bouncing about , asking for food, drinking, attention seeking for another week, 2 days before he actually died he started slowing down and I knew, I knew he'd picked his own time and I was right in my own head and heart to still have kept him.

So basically, i think you'll know when she's ready. <3 *love*
 
Hey sweetheart, I haven't read any of the posts apart from yours but can I say...

Last November my guinea pig Africa got sick, he was apprantly slowly dying of liver failure, the kindest thing apprantly was to put him down, but I was his mother and I knew he wasn't ready, he still ate, even though it was very little, drank tons, interacted with me. I couldn't face putting him down either, I just couldn't justifire it, a week before he actually did die I thought he was so bad i would have to, but by the next morning he was 'normal' again. Bouncing about , asking for food, drinking, attention seeking for another week, 2 days before he actually died he started slowing down and I knew, I knew he'd picked his own time and I was right in my own head and heart to still have kept him.

So basically, i think you'll know when she's ready. <3 *love*

Thank you for your kind words. It really does help to hear how others coped with similar circumstances
 
Sorry to hear Poppy is not well. Just a few questions to help me understand a bit more if you don't mind. Did the vet test her urine? Was the blood you saw diluted or dark red? Is she pooing and weeing? Are both normal? Is you vet a small animals/exotics specialist?

The antibiotic you have been given is more commonly known as baytril. That doesage is very low for an adult piggy. It is usually atleast twice that. My Kizzy needed 0.35mls twice daily for two weeks to get rid of an eye infection. I would ask the vet for an ultrasound or an x ray. I am not an expert but I personally prefer an ultrasound as many vets will not xray guineas without a sedative. An ultrasound may also perhaps see a blockage or tumour that an xray might not.

I hope she recovers quickly.

No the vet didnt test her urine, they are not specialist. I think she is pooing and weeing, just with a bit of squeaking (which has really decreased to practically nothing through the course of today)
I cannot remember the shade of blood, I just recall seeing red, knowing that wasn't good and panicking.
I dont know if the doseage is related to the size/weight of the piggie, she has always been small, but was pear shaped as she loved her food.
She is much smaller than my 3 other sows, half the size infact. I don't know if it in her genes to be a petite little sow or it is connected to how she was cared for by her previous owner (food was restricted, as was space, so perhaps she didnt grow properly, I just don't know)

Since she has been with me she has wanted for nothing, had a full and varied diet, plenty of room to run and she has been a really active little character.
She stood up on her back legs earlier when I brought the bowl of veggies in, and even ran down the ramp to the bottom level to eat which is something she has not done in days. Her hay interest has picked up too.
I am really impressed with the probiotic stuff, it appears to have helped her.
 
The dose of antibiotics will vary from pig to pig slightly but not that much. 0.4mls is what most guinea savy vets will prescribe twice daily. Some vets who are unsure may say 0.2mls to be safe but 0.1mls is very low.

If the blood is in the urine then it would be more likely that there is a cure of some kind. If she was bleeding when she pooped then there might be something wrong in her bowels which would probably be more serious. Perhaps you could pop her in a pet carrier or something untill she wees and poops then you will know where the problem lies. If the urine is pink/red then a UTI or kidney or bladder stone is quite possible. I paniced the first time one of my girls got a UTI I popped them one by one in the carrier until one weed pink.

I am slightly distrustful of vets who say PTS if antibiotics don't work. There are many more tests the vet could run before giving that as the next best option. If she does wee in a box for you, you can take a sample of it to the vet for testing. They can check for kidney problems, grit/stones, cystitis all from a little pot of wee.
 
I'm sorry your piggie isnt very well, I have had a piggie with UTI and stones and I have been to and from the vets many times.

From what you described I would be looking to see if your piggie has UTI and discussing it with your vet further. Obviously it might not be this but your description of your Piggies symptons are very similar.

What I learnt from this forum helped me push my vet into giving the right medication and treatment as some vets arn't up to date with treating Guinea Pigs.
I got my vet to prescribe Septrin as this is a known antibiotic that seems to work better on the infection and it is also much better on the stomach, and my piggie loved the taste of it too :)

Maybe you could check out this other thread and especially 'Wiebke' advice on post 4, http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=61322&highlight=uti
 
Going on previous posts.....

Your vet should Xray her for the presence of stones in either
a) the urethra (relatively easy to remove with forceps unless they are too big)
b) the bladder - may pass depending upon size but an op may be necessary
c) the ureter...if small enough will flush through into the bladder and the urethra or finally
d) the kidneys...if not small enough to enter the urethra then palliative care is indicated

It certainly sounds like she might have/has had stones. Her recovery means she may have passed whatever was causing the problem...HOWEVER...she still needs to be Xrayed to check if there are any more and where they are.

It certainly sounds like you need a cavy savvy vet....as there is insufficent info on her condition atm to justify a diagnosis of PTS rather than incur more treatment costs (unless of coure she goes downhill and her condition deteriorates rapidly - but the fact she has rallied would suggest that there is everything to play for in her case and she deserves a chance)

Whereabouts are you? We can try and find a good cavy savvy vet for you.

Failing that ....I am willing to provide transport for you if you are willing to take her to consult my exotics vets in Sussex......they are not that cheap......but they are very good with piggies ...and they will tell you where you stand regards her treatment going forwards

HTH
x
 
Hello sorry to hear Poppy is poorly.
I'm not a vet and I obviously haven't seen Poppy but I have to agree with Salt n Peppers mum, it does sound like a UTI.
Normal treatment is antibiotics - Septrin is the most effective, a pain killer / anti inflammatory - Metacam and a probiotic to stop them getting an upset tummy from the antibiotics, I use Fibreplex which you can buy online from Vet UK. This can take up to a couple of weeks to clear in my experience but you usually see signs of improvement in 3-4 days.
If this doesn't work or keeps recurring then an x-ray (preferably without a general anaesthetic) and / or ultra sound should be done to check for bladder stones.
Please don't put her to sleep until you've tried this. A UTI is easily treated with the correct medicine. Too many vets don't know enough about guinea pigs and go for the PTS option too quickly for my liking.
Fingers crossed for a full recovery.
 
Hello sorry to hear Poppy is poorly.
I'm not a vet and I obviously haven't seen Poppy but I have to agree with Salt n Peppers mum, it does sound like a UTI.
Normal treatment is antibiotics - Septrin is the most effective, a pain killer / anti inflammatory - Metacam and a probiotic to stop them getting an upset tummy from the antibiotics, I use Fibreplex which you can buy online from Vet UK. This can take up to a couple of weeks to clear in my experience but you usually see signs of improvement in 3-4 days.
If this doesn't work or keeps recurring then an x-ray (preferably without a general anaesthetic) and / or ultra sound should be done to check for bladder stones.
Please don't put her to sleep until you've tried this. A UTI is easily treated with the correct medicine. Too many vets don't know enough about guinea pigs and go for the PTS option too quickly for my liking.
Fingers crossed for a full recovery.

^^^^^^

I second this.....but with an observation that infections and stones go hand in hand. A primary infection (especially urease-postivie bacteria) can cause secondary stones to form...(and re-form)...and conversely primary stones can cause a secondary infection (via the inflammation of the urinary lining enabling bacteria to gain a hold).

Therefore you need to get any infection diagnosed and treated with antibiotics but also check for stones at the same time....partic when there is blood and pain....and whiffy urine.

x
 
I am so sorry that you are going through this with Poppy. I'm afraid I can't tell you what to do but thought I would also share my stories.

My first guinea pig ever squeaked whilst peeing, passed blood and lost lot's of weight. This went on for 5 months with constant vets visits. During that time, she had endless X rays which showed no stones but did show sludge and grit in the bladder. Connie was on Baytril to begin with and then Septrin. She had endless urine samples taken which showed a high amount of crystals, calcium, blood and protein to begin with but this eventually went down.

After 5 months, we made the decision to let the vet open her up to see what was going on. The vet didn't find anything unusual and gave Connie a bladder flush. After this, we thought Connie was on the mend as she make a vast improvement but sadly she died 5 days later.

Altogether we spent £500 but I know that we did everything possible for her.

You can imagine my shock when last summer, Connie's cage mate Eliza started with the same symptoms as Connie :( We took her to the vets straight away and again her urine samples showed crystals, blood and protein. The vet prescribed Septrin but a higher dose than usually. We had to take in weekly urine samples and although they started to look clear to us, they still contained blood etc. A long 4 weeks later, Eliza's urine samples were clear and she came off the Septrin and started to gain the weight she had lost.

Touch wood, everything has been fine by then. Eliza is back to being a normal weight and I haven't came across any problems with Eliza and her friends.

All my pigs drink bottled / filtered water only and are all on a low calcium diet. Mainly due to my own paranoia!

Of course, we can't tell you wnat to do but I just wanted to share my own experiences.

Good luck with whatever you decide x
 
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