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Another bladder stone?

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sarahp

sarahp

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One of my boys, 4-year old Charlie, had an operation to remove a bladder stone, about the size of a small pea. That was the Thursday before Easter weekend.

He seemed to be recovering well but towards the end of last week I noticed blood in his wee and he was squeaking when weeing again. The vet was fully booked but prescribed an extra 5 days of antibiotics for me to pick up. Today is the 5th day and since yesterday his squeaking has got worse. It's now more like it was just before the operation - quite loud with about 3 or 4 uncomfortable squeaks every time he wees.

I've called the vet and am taking him back this evening. Is it possible that he has developed another bladder stone so quickly? Or perhaps a second one which wasn't picked up first time round? Or just a nasty infection needing yet more antibiotics?

Just thought I'd see if anyone else has had similar experiences before I take him. On a brighter note, apart from the weeing he's fine and eating normally :)

Sarah
 
I forgot to say... I should really try and get some wee test strips to keep at home. I know someone posted a link on here but can't find it. Anyone?
 
Poor Charlie, just when you thought he could get over it all as well!

Is he on any painkillers/anti-inflammatories? That would be the first step to take as inflammation can occur with bladder stones, and the pain won't be doing anything useful for him.

Second step (or, to be more accurate, part of the first step) would be antibiotics as cystitis/urinary tract infections can be present at the same time as bladder stones. Which ABs is he on at the moment, and what dose?

I've heard of stones forming within 3-4 weeks of a previous bladder stone removal. Obviously preventative steps are well worth taking - plenty of fluids will help to keep flushing the bladder out, and addressing the calcium: phophorus ratio in the diet.
 
I know, just as you start thinking they're getting better...!

He'd been on Metacam for 4 or 5 days after the operation, and Septrin for about a week or so.

When he started showing symptoms again last week and I called the vet, for some reason she changed to a low dose of Baytril (0.4ml once a day). I'm not sure why as I didn't get to speak to her, I just picked it up from reception. I thought I'd give it a go all the same.

No painkillers were prescribed because it was mostly a case of blood in wee rather than squeaking. Since then I've been giving him Calpol which hasn't had much of an effect.

With any luck it'll just be a case of more Septrin and more Metacam...
 
Hopefully it will be easy enough to get on top of, as you know Septrin is the AB of choice when it comes to urinary tract infections.

Have you tried any cranberry juice? This is said to help flush out the bladder quite effectively. Plenty of fluids (water; cranberry juice an optional extra) is important to bear in mind so make sure he is drinking well. :)
 
Yes have been giving him plenty of fluids, although cranberry juice doesn't go down too well with him... In fact, his liquid of choice at the moment is the Bio-Lapis he's been taking alongside the Baytril. He can't get enough of it! (And I quite like the smell of it too :)))

Thanks for your help. We'll wait and see what happens...
 
Just wanted to say that I'm thinking of you and Charlie, i hope the vets visit goes well and keep us posted. :)
 
Thanks!

We saw the vet this evening. She tested his wee and there was no blood thankfully, but there were quite a lot of crystals. He's back on Metacam and I need to start controlling his calcium levels to avoid him getting another stone.

I've been reading about Ratewatchers but can't get my head around it just yet!

I'm trying to get plenty of water and cranberry juice down him, although he's not too impressed. I wish he'd start drinking more by himself when I'm out during the day. Any suggestions how to make water more appealing? Does anyone use things like sugar-free squash or juice?

Sarah
 
Yes, syringing and wetting his veg is the only way I'm managing to get water into him.

Funny how all my other 10 pigs are drinking from their bottles, it's just the one that needs to who chooses not to.... :)
 
sarahp said:
Yes, syringing and wetting his veg is the only way I'm managing to get water into him.

Funny how all my other 10 pigs are drinking from their bottles, it's just the one that needs to who chooses not to.... :)
Click to expand...

I'm in exactly the same boat as you, when it comes to a reluctance to drink. My pig thankfully hasn't had a stone but has been suffering from an extremely stubborn bout of Cystitis for several months. I've been trying to get loads of fluids into him but he never drinks of his own accord, so it's not easy!

Mine also hates cranberry and I've also found probiotic makes water taste slightly more appealing. The only other thing I've found which mine actually likes to drink is Dioralyte solution - for some strange reason he loves that but I don't suppose that's recommended as a long term treatment. He's only had it very occasionally but I wonder if a tiny pinch would be ok to give in his water a little more often?

Anyway good luck with everything. Really hope Charlie doesn't need more surgery and fully recovers soon x
 
Uriflow?

Same here with Bio-Lapis. When he was on that not one drop ended up on me... Unfortunately I don't think it would be a good idea to give either of these for longer than necessary.

Even though I'm supposed to be working, I've been reading about Uriflow... Just wondered if anyone on here is using it at the moment?
 
It's not something I've heard much about and not used it, although I have heard of it.
 
I understand !

Hi
I had the whole saga with my precious darcy so i sympathise fully !
He had a bladder op and crystals and the whole thing as you describe :{
He recovered well no further blood etc then low and behold out of the blue he started again.
He quickly went on a low calcium diet as provided via this forum and the cambridge cavy trust who were very helpful.
He had some more septrin and metcam...he loves it ...and my vet decided to trial him on a new drug normally used for cats bladder stone probs but now being used for cavies.
Its called cystaid and its a long term medication taken daily half capsule 2.5ml water,it helps protect the bladder lining.I am very happy to say it cleared up and he has been completely sympton free for 6 months ! and he was very poorly so thats fab.
Hope you get sorted and tip for urine collection,sit piggie in plastic tub on your lap with veg treats,have your syringe ready and draw up wee as they do it !
Helen xx>>>xx>>>
 
kidsgrovecaviemad said:
.............my vet decided to trial him on a new drug normally used for cats bladder stone probs but now being used for cavies.
Its called cystaid and its a long term medication taken daily half capsule 2.5ml water,it helps protect the bladder lining.I am very happy to say it cleared up and he has been completely sympton free for 6 months ! and he was very poorly so thats fab.
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Funny you should say that....I was just thinking about ordering something like that. My Vet also mentioned trying Cystaid for my piggy. I haven't tried it yet (I thought his symptoms had cleared but now I'm not so sure, so may well give it a go)

I've read before on this forum that piggies with stubborn UTI issues and Interstitial Cystitis etc have had great results with Cystaid/Cystease. It stops crystals sticking to the bladder wall so could well help your Charlie. Definitely something worth asking your Vet about.

I think Cystease contains the same ingredients as Cystaid but tends to be quite a bit cheaper. You must use the one for cats though, the "Cystease S 125mg capsules for Cats". My Vet mentioned sprinking it on food but if syringing works well then that's bound to enable more acurate dosing, so great!
 
Hi, this is a very interesting thread, considering the probs Daisy is having. I thought it was a good idea re the testing strips too. I have these at home for myself, though not sure if they are exactly the same, not sure if mine state Multistix. Would it matter?

Sarah, I hope your piggie improves, what a struggle it is in trying to get it all right and for it to work for them.

What kind/make of Cranberry juice have you tried?
 
I've been using the unsweetened Ocean Spray, although I see it's made from concentrate. I'm guessing pure cranberry would be better, but haven't managed to find it in the shops.

I was reading this article today: http://www.gorgeousguineas.com/Instructions/Marbles And His Bladder Stones.pdf

I've been in touch with Chrissie and am thinking about trying Uriflow, as well as switching to Cow and Gate juice (in the hope he likes the taste better than cranberry)

I'll have a read up on Cystease and Cystaid. I'm not sure whether these would work though - I may be confused here but are those more for cystitis and infection? Because Charlie is off antibiotics now, there's no infection, just crystals.

Sarah x
 
Really interesting information you found with the uriflow.

As you know Gizmo has a UTI and i thought that he was getting better as he hadn't squeaked for a whole week and then yesterday he done a wee and he did squeak, but today nothing. I'm so scared and worried as i know he will have to have a xray to see if there is any stones if he dosent get better, but I'm scared that if he has stones that he wont make it through the op as I'm worried about his breathing. He does breath normal but sometimes he gets snuffly when eating etc, it may just be me worrying too much!

I'm glad you found the information about the cow & gate juice i will try that too, as he hates the cranberry juice!

How do the vets test for crystals? Do they spin the urine?

Also on guinea lynx they have a low calcium diet too. Dont know if its any use to you but i have been looking into it, here is the link.

http://www.guinealynx.info/stones_diet.html

I hope that Charlie gets better soon. :)
 
Yes they spin the urine and the crystals all settle at the bottom.

Thanks for the link, I'll have a look.

Sorry to hear Gizmo is still squeaking occasionally, it is worrying - I know exactly how you feel! If he's only doing it very occasionally then hopefully it's just a nasty UTI... hope he gets better soon :)
 
sarahp said:
I'll have a read up on Cystease and Cystaid. I'm not sure whether these would work though - I may be confused here but are those more for cystitis and infection? Because Charlie is off antibiotics now, there's no infection, just crystals.
Click to expand...

As they coat the lining of the bladder, I would imagine - thinking nothing more than logically here (rather than medically) - that it would still help. You'd still need to address the crystals in the urine, but if the lining of the bladder is protected then I would suspect it wouldn't become irritated or sore by the crystals.

Monkeynutz said:
Hi, this is a very interesting thread, considering the probs Daisy is having. I thought it was a good idea re the testing strips too. I have these at home for myself, though not sure if they are exactly the same, not sure if mine state Multistix. Would it matter?
Click to expand...

It depends what you are looking for in the urine, different test sticks test for different things. The good thing about the Multistix is the fact they test for up to 10 different values.

I've got two brands of urine test sticks now - Multistix, and Combur. The Multistix are the ones usually recommended and I believe are used by the CCT, but since the Combur tests for the same values, I am not aware of any reason to think one is preferable to another.
 
sarahp said:
I've been using the unsweetened Ocean Spray, although I see it's made from concentrate. I'm guessing pure cranberry would be better, but haven't managed to find it in the shops.

I was reading this article today: http://www.gorgeousguineas.com/Instructions/Marbles And His Bladder Stones.pdf

I've been in touch with Chrissie and am thinking about trying Uriflow, as well as switching to Cow and Gate juice (in the hope he likes the taste better than cranberry)

I'll have a read up on Cystease and Cystaid. I'm not sure whether these would work though - I may be confused here but are those more for cystitis and infection? Because Charlie is off antibiotics now, there's no infection, just crystals.

Sarah x
Click to expand...

Thanks for this info. Unfortunately there seems to be quite a few of us dealing with quite similar stubborn bladder/uti issues at the moment, but it's great to share ideas.

Holland & Barrett sell pure cranberry juice but, as it's very potent and unsweetened, it's extremely tart. It obviously has the benefit of being pure but it's very expensive and only lasts a few days once opened. You'll have to diulte it so much to get your piggy to take it, so you'd only use a small amount before you had to chuck it away. The Cow & Gate one sounds fantastic. I'll definitely look out for it!

Just a thought, did your Vet advise you to give a vitamin C supplement, post op, to increase urine acidity? My Vet recommended this to me, when I thought my boy had a bladder stone, along with hydrangea root tincture (not sure where you can buy this but I've read Peter Gurney also advised it.)

With regard to Cystease/Cystaid, I'm no expert (please do ask your Vet about it!) but I imagine it could perhaps be useful at dealing with the symptoms, thinking along the same lines as Laura said.

As a preventative measure though, I really would recommend trying to get your head around the Ratewatchers diet and/or the Guinea Lynx calculator which I think someone already posted. It's not easy (I know!) but getting the right balance of nutrients (and knowing which foods to avoid) could really help reduce the chance of further crystals. I found Laura's reference thread about the ideal calcium : phosphorous ratio really useful.
 
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By the way, I should have pointed out that Cystease/Cystaid should only be used in cases where stones have been ruled out, so it'd be very important to check that first.....although I'm sure you would anyway :)
 
Is it any of the cow & gate juice they can have and you dilute it down with water dont you? I think i read 5mls of juice to 55mls of water.

I really do hope that its just a nasty UTI.

:)
 
I honestly am completely clueless when it comes to guinea pig illness - I should really get clued-up!
I'm just posting to send you both my love.
 
I only found one type of Cow&Gate - a little glass jar of Apple and Orange which cost 46p in Tesco. It's already quite dilute. He's not overly enthralled with it but it's going down better than the cranberry juice did.

Yes, it's 5ml with 55ml water. I've read that 15ml x 3 times a day is a good amount to give. It works well if you're out at work all day too :)
 
Joey&Gizmo said:
Is it any of the cow & gate juice they can have and you dilute it down with water dont you? I think i read 5mls of juice to 55mls of water.
Click to expand...

Good question! I assumed that it was an alternative to Ocean Spray cranberry juice but perhaps any flavour will do, as it might simply be to make water more palatable and encourage plenty of fluids.
 
Good timing... I just received an email from Chrissie at Gorgeous Guineas:

.....one thing I forgot to say is that there are 2 types of Cow & Gate juice, so make sure that you get the concentrate. There is a ready-diluted version but you don't want that as it doesn't keep very long and I'm not sure what the ingredients are.
 
sarahp said:
Good timing... I just received an email from Chrissie at Gorgeous Guineas:

.....one thing I forgot to say is that there are 2 types of Cow & Gate juice, so make sure that you get the concentrate. There is a ready-diluted version but you don't want that as it doesn't keep very long and I'm not sure what the ingredients are.
Click to expand...

Just wondering if you've been trying the concentrated juice? I bought some from Sainsbury's yesterday (175ml bottle for £1.42) but it was a smallish store so they only had Apple & Blackcurrant. It's called Cow & Gate Baby Balance....I assume it's the right stuff. It contains 100% baby grade concentrated fruit juice with a little added Vitamin C and literally nothing else. Keeps for 3wks after opening (in the fridge).

Yossi seems to love it, which is great! He still won't drink on his own yet but I'm hoping this will encourage him to try. I'm still giving him some cranberry, for the added health benefits that has, but will give that as well as this C&G juice. Thanks again for the tip!

How is Charlie at the moment? I think I saw you mention on another thread that he's still having problems. It's really hard, I know.
 
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