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Archie has died - Couple of questions please

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LennyPig

LennyPig

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Archie died somewhere between 11.20am and 2pm today :( :( (URI)

I have a couple of questions....

SEE HERE FOR OLD THREAD

I am devastated, he went downhill so quickly! I take note of how all my pigs are every day and up to about 5 days ago he was fine, breathing ok and not looking worse for wear at all. He's been on baytril since thursday and was eating as normal up to yesterday evening.

I am so sad that I wasn't there for him, when I came to check on him again, he looked like he had been in alot of pain.

He was 3 and a half years old and we had him for about 8 months. He came from Helen (Hels)

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QUESTIONS:

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1... He lived with Belle (1 year old shelti cross sow) and next door to Lenny (1 year old aby boar) and Piglet (1 year old smooth haired sow) so I am concerned about them catching anything.

I don't know whether I am imagining it but I don't know whether Belle is breathing a bit funny.

I rang the vets and the vet I spoke to said that as the other pair are separated by correx from Archie and Belle that they would not catch it! He also said to start Belle on the Baytril as I have a LOT left from Archie.

I don't think this is right, I don't think the other 2 are showing any symptoms but I am worried all the same. URIs are highly contagious aren't they?

I am going to take all 3 in on Monday for a check but I was thinking of starting all three on the Baytril in the meantime (I have plenty) What do you think?


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2... What are the causes of URIs?

I can't really find anything on google.


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3... A rather grim question, but I want to bury Archie in a big plant pot with a special plant on top of him but won't be able to do this until Monday. How is best to store his body until Monday?


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Thanks guys :((
 
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omg this is such a shock,Archie was beautiful and I'm so sorry you lost him8...,i cant offer much help except that the only way i know to store them is refridgeration or freezing,Boris couldnt be cremated for a few days so my vet stored him until it could get done,maybe yours could help with this,once again I'm so sorry,many hugs sent to you x
 
I don't know either but wanted to say how sorry I am. :(

I did have a baby die from a URI once and like you I was really vigilant. 2 of the other 3 I had at the time were put on baytril by my vet - whether or not they had it I'm not 100% as they seemed right as rain again very soon afterwards - coincidence? maybe.

The one who never had the baytril was absolutely fine too though.
 
I am very sorry that you lost Archie, despite your best care.

I have just made my own trips to the vet with one of mine being diagnosed with URI. So far, the other six are not showing any signs (touch wood)!

You can keep Archie wrapped up in an old towel or kitchen paper and a clean plastic bag in your fridge, if you can clear a shelf, as you do not want him right next to food.
 
LennyPig said:
3... A rather grim question, but I want to bury Archie in a big plant pot with a special plant on top of him but won't be able to do this until Monday. How is best to store his body until Monday?
Click to expand...

Aww. I'm really sorry for you that Archie died. :(

To answer your question, if you leave him outside in a cardboard box (in a sheltered spot so it won't get all wet), until you want to bury him, he won't decompose in this weather. The external temperature isn't much higher than refrigeration at the moment and you're only leaving it a couple of days.
 
I am so sorry you lost Archie, what a shock.

In answer to a few of your questions:

1. It's unlikely they have caught URIs; it is easy to worry when you have lost a pig but it rarely happens. It tends to occur between pigs who live in very close contact - if at all. I have heard that URIs are highly contagious many times but personally I have not come across any evidence of this; despite having two pigs with URIs remaining within a large group, the illness was not passed on despite the URI being fairly severe in both cases. I wouldn't start the Baytril as it can be a little harsh on the system, it's not worth putting a pig on it unnecessarily.

2. Intresting question. The causes that I am aware of is the pig being cold when wet. Heart problems can also lead to apparent URIs.

3. The freezer will preserve his body until you can bury him. The longest I have had a pigs body stored this way is 5 days (the incinerator at the crematorium broke down when we were due to take Tuppy in).

The death of piggies is a sad and difficult subject, but it is one I do think people should consider before they have to face it; whether they will bury or cremate their pig.

Big hugs to you. xx
 
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I'm so sorry for your loss. Little animals go downhill so quickly.

My second piggy, Timmy, died when we were on holiday and the lady looking after him put him in the freezeer so that we could bury him when we got home.

Keep your chin up... Little animals steal your heart and each loss is devastating. Be strong. You did everything you could x
 
thanks all. I have always planned on burying any lost pigs in pots but had not quite got so far as realising I might have a wait before I can bury them.

I think Archie had heart problems as he occasionally jolted recently, like a full body twitch, which I'm sure I read on here can be an indication of heart troubles.... the vet said no though :(
 
Oh love i'm so sorry, Archie was a gorgeous little man 8...8...8...
Hugs and loves and wheeeeeeeks from us all xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
 
Hun I'm so sorry to hear of your loss. I lost one of my pigs a couple of days ago so I understand what you're going through. *big hugs*

I love your pot idea - that's such a lovely way to care for and remember you lost piggy.
 
Your description of his condition would indicate heart failure. You should not give your other pigs antibiotics.
Keep his body in a cool place, ie not above 5 degrees C, in a sealed container. That will be adequate for a couple of days. There will be minimal decomposition during that time under those conditions.
 
I thought so too alcesterpigs (sorry don't know your name)... but the vet wouldn't believe me or even consider it.

What causes heart failure?
 
What causes heart failure?

If only!
A common cause is an interruption to the blood supply to the heart caused by a blood clot or fat deposits. There may be a genetic defect in the heart muscle, it could be an infection, either viral or bacterial. Shock, ie sudden surprise. Trauma. Tumour.
That's all I can remember!

I cannot recall seeing a recommendation that g pigs need to have their cholesterol levels checked!
 
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I'd be interested to know your opinions on cause of death and whether you think it could be consistent with heart failure?

his symptoms over the last week have been...

increasingly laboured breathing
runny nose
full body twitches (like jolts)
occasional crusty eyes


other observations have been

Increase in weight since getting him 8 months ago. I mention this because the vet asked about weight his weight has been as follows...

05/05/09.... 1.000
18/05/09.... 1.000
02/09/09.... 1.350
20/11/09.... 1.400

Belle who he came with has increased in weight since arriving also so I wasn't concerned but now it leaves me wondering.

Also, he was eating absolutely fine until friday evening when he had not eaten as much veg. He was still eating a little though. Saturday morning he was very down in the dumps and would not even swallow his baytril
 
In the absence of any definitive tests the diagnosis of heart failure is based on clinical observations. However, the heart sounds themselves can be a fairly good indicator of a problem.


1 increasingly laboured breathing
2 runny nose
3 full body twitches (like jolts)
4 occasional crusty eyes

1,2, and 3 are commonly found, not so much 4.
In my experience of pigs that have heart problems the survival time from onset of the symptoms is upto 4 days.
It is reasonable to assume that his weight gain played no part in his death, more likely that he was underweight at the start. The weight gain per week is fairly modest.

However, in 1998 I took in 2 boars who were grossly underweight, in 4 months they had doubled in weight to 3lb, about 1360gm. Four months later they died within a week of each other.
I have a suspicion that, just possibly, the weight gain was too much too soon. Again it is possible that their hearts did not adapt quickly enough to the demands placed upon them. Possible? Maybe. I would not put the chance any higher than that.
 
alcesterpigs said:
In the absence of any definitive tests the diagnosis of heart failure is based on clinical observations. However, the heart sounds themselves can be a fairly good indicator of a problem.


1 increasingly laboured breathing
2 runny nose
3 full body twitches (like jolts)
4 occasional crusty eyes

1,2, and 3 are commonly found, not so much 4.
In my experience of pigs that have heart problems the survival time from onset of the symptoms is upto 4 days.
It is reasonable to assume that his weight gain played no part in his death, more likely that he was underweight at the start. The weight gain per week is fairly modest.

However, in 1998 I took in 2 boars who were grossly underweight, in 4 months they had doubled in weight to 3lb, about 1360gm. Four months later they died within a week of each other.
I have a suspicion that, just possibly, the weight gain was too much too soon. Again it is possible that their hearts did not adapt quickly enough to the demands placed upon them. Possible? Maybe. I would not put the chance any higher than that.
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AP you seem to be suggesting that heart problems are a death sentence. If that was always the case, then why is my piggie, Skye, still here? She has been treated very successfully for over a year now and seems back to full health whilst she remains on the medication.
 
I have no doubt some respond to Fortekor, if it is an appropriaste drug for the condition. How many pigs are treated in time? Again it depends what the heart problem is, if a significant amount of the heart muscle is irrevocably damaged then the prognosis is extremely bleak.
 
sorry to hear about your sad news... Thinking of you at this sad time
 
I believe that if the symptoms are recognised and treated early, many pigs have a fair chance at responding well to medication.

The large majority of heart pigs display symptoms that are assumed to be caused by a URI and the pigs are treated accordingly, thus allowing the heart problems to progress further. In some cases the symptoms are so mild and can be so easily overlooked they are ignored until they develop further and treatment is less likely to work.

Of course there are also the cases where the vet refuses to even consider that the pig may have a heart problem, fobbing the owner off with "Well the heart sounds fine, so there is nothing wrong with it."

I remain convinced my Tuppence had heart problems, but because her heart sounded fine she was declared to be fit. Apparently her two bouts of severe repiratory infections/pneumonia, increasing lethargy and blue tinged nose meant nothing...
 
Laura-CCC4 said:
I believe that if the symptoms are recognised and treated early, many pigs have a fair chance at responding well to medication.

The large majority of heart pigs display symptoms that are assumed to be caused by a URI and the pigs are treated accordingly, thus allowing the heart problems to progress further. In some cases the symptoms are so mild and can be so easily overlooked they are ignored until they develop further and treatment is less likely to work.

Of course there are also the cases where the vet refuses to even consider that the pig may have a heart problem, fobbing the owner off with "Well the heart sounds fine, so there is nothing wrong with it."

I remain convinced my Tuppence had heart problems, but because her heart sounded fine she was declared to be fit. Apparently her two bouts of severe repiratory infections/pneumonia, increasing lethargy and blue tinged nose meant nothing...
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I guess I'm really lucky in that I have such a fantastic vet. Even though Poppet's heart sounded fine, and still does, he was willing to give the Fortekor a go to see if she responded to it. When she immediately looked so much better and was once again full of life, he took the view that although we weren't sure what we were treating, the medication was doing the trick.
 
"Poppet's heart sounded fine, and still does"

That is an interesting comment.
Fortekor lowers blood pressure, useful where high blood pressure is putting a strain on an otherwise healthy heart.
I was referring to heart conditions where the heart itself is giving evidence that it is faulty, that is why I made the comment about limited life span.
I doubt whether Fortekor would have any beneficial effect in those cases, I stand to be corrected on that. I shall get a second opnion!
 
alcesterpigs said:
"Poppet's heart sounded fine, and still does"

That is an interesting comment.
Fortekor lowers blood pressure, useful where high blood pressure is putting a strain on an otherwise healthy heart.
I was referring to heart conditions where the heart itself is giving evidence that it is faulty, that is why I made the comment about limited life span.
I doubt whether Fortekor would have any beneficial effect in those cases, I stand to be corrected on that. I shall get a second opnion!
Click to expand...

Although Poppet's heart sounds fine, her sister Skye was found to have arrhythmia and a heart murmur over a year ago. She has been on Fortekor since this was detected and the improvement was amazing. She went from being a piggie with very laboured breathing and lethargy to a lively pig almost overnight. Poppet was put on the same medication a few months ago, when she too started to show the same symptoms. Her heart has always sounded healthy though.
 
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