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Archie Is Unwell (multiple Symptoms)

Chris24

Chris24

Junior Guinea Pig
Joined
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Location
Colchester
Hi All,

We need some advice on this one. Our little 2 y/o boar Archie has been losing weight gradually over the past month and a half:

1st may 1009
10th may 999
13th may 1013
22nd may 986
29th may 956
30th may 947
31st may 950
1st June 961
12th June 948
21st June 924
22nd June 936
23rd June 935
24th June 903

We initially put this down to him losing his winter fat as the other piggies lost a little as well but Archie had not stabilized. I watched him eat a few days ago and could see he was being very picky about what he was eating, always going to the muesli instead of the nuggets and "nuzzling" the food for a long time before eating. Based on this, we took him to the vet to check for dental issues. Our normal cavvy savvy vet is unfortunately on holiday so he was seen by another vet that is knowledgable on piggies. She checked in his mouth and could see overgrowth of the back teeth so we booked him in to have them filed that day (under anesthetic).

So they put him out and checked but could find no dental issues at all! Whilst he was under we requested an X-Ray (which they did) and also bloods (which they didn't do as they said it could only be done by a specialist vet which they did not have in the practice). They prescribed some metacam for pain relief and fibreplex for his gut

We bought Arche home yesterday (23rd) and have been keeping a careful eye on him. Last night he had some trouble passing faeces - he sort of went very still periodically and then moved his bum up in the air. One time he made a very quiet "pain" squeaks. I noticed he had a *very* long poo mixed with hay hanging from his behind yesterday so removed this and he has been passing faeces overnight but they are a little misshapen (maybe due to the fibreplex). He has been a little quieter than normal but is showing some symptoms this morning that are concerning, namely:

1) eating very few nuggets (still nuzzling at the bowl and usually walking away without ingesting any)
2) drinking little water (we kept him separateted over night and the drinks bottle level hardly moved)
3) his one (and only) eye is crusty. Not in the eye itself but around the outside (see picture). It was like this last night so we cleaned it but it's the same this morning.
4) loss of 30g overnight

The eye would point to a URI but we hadn't noticed this at all since he came back from the vets. Also he doesn't have the other usual symptoms such as labored breathing or sneezing and it wouldn't account for the prolonged weight loss. On the up side he is still eating hay and will happily chow down on the some veggies.

Our plan of action this morning is to syringe feed critical care and fluids to keep the weight on and take him back to the vets to maybe get some antibiotics but there's a lot of stuff that doesn't seem to add up so wanted to get some advice from you guys.. hope you can help.

Chris and Kim

ire1cof.jpg
 
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For me the crusty eye isn't necessarily a symptom of the condition. I have noticed that when piggies are poorly quite often they aren't grooming themselves as thoroughly as usual which can lead to small crusts around the eye.

I would suggest that your vets aren't particularly savvy as they should be able to view the back teeth without the use of anaesthetic. Thats what my vets did but they did need to use an anaesthetic to treat the teeth.

There is definitely a pain issue going on but the weights aren't necessarily meaning a lot as the weight loss overnight could be down to the difference between empty/full bladder and weighing at different times in the food cycle. If you aren't already then switch to weighing daily at the same time (either right before or right after food) everyday for the best view of what is going on.

I would recommend seeing a savvy vet as this is clearly not the "obvious" problems. We have a vet locator which is populated with members experiences of savvy vets (not always specialists but then not all exotic specialists are cavy savvy). If you can travel, the best vet for dental problems is Simon Maddock in Northampton. They do all the dental work without anaesthetic and are the only vets who can do this. I have driven down the motorway to them twice and they have a brilliant level of expertise so I go to them when I suspect its teeth related and my vets aren't quite skilled up enough to manage it.
 
Lady Kelly said:
For me the crusty eye isn't necessarily a symptom of the condition. I have noticed that when piggies are poorly quite often they aren't grooming themselves as thoroughly as usual which can lead to small crusts around the eye.

I would suggest that your vets aren't particularly savvy as they should be able to view the back teeth without the use of anaesthetic. Thats what my vets did but they did need to use an anaesthetic to treat the teeth.

There is definitely a pain issue going on but the weights aren't necessarily meaning a lot as the weight loss overnight could be down to the difference between empty/full bladder and weighing at different times in the food cycle. If you aren't already then switch to weighing daily at the same time (either right before or right after food) everyday for the best view of what is going on.

I would recommend seeing a savvy vet as this is clearly not the "obvious" problems. We have a vet locator which is populated with members experiences of savvy vets (not always specialists but then not all exotic specialists are cavy savvy). If you can travel, the best vet for dental problems is Simon Maddock in Northampton. They do all the dental work without anaesthetic and are the only vets who can do this. I have driven down the motorway to them twice and they have a brilliant level of expertise so I go to them when I suspect its teeth related and my vets aren't quite skilled up enough to manage it.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply. As my post was so lengthy, you may have missed it but Archie's teeth were checked under anesthetic and also had an x-ray which ruled out any potential dental issue. They did check the back teeth without anaesthetic to begin with and the vet thought she could see overgrowth but was not 100% clear as Archie had food in his mouth. Unfortunately no problem was found when he was put under.

Our usual vet is Ben Bennett who is really good with piggies (one of the recommended vets on this board) and I believe his colleague is (at least somewhat) cavy savvy also.

100g total loss is more than i'd expect from an empty/full bladder but we will continue to weigh him at the same time every day to make sure it's consistent.
 
Sending healing vibes, hope you can get to the bottom of it soon!
 
Chris24 said:
Hi All,

We need some advice on this one. Our little 2 y/o boar Archie has been losing weight gradually over the past month and a half:

1st may 1009
10th may 999
13th may 1013
22nd may 986
29th may 956
30th may 947
31st may 950
1st June 961
12th June 948
21st June 924
22nd June 936
23rd June 935
24th June 903

We initially put this down to him losing his winter fat as the other piggies lost a little as well but Archie had not stabilized. I watched him eat a few days ago and could see he was being very picky about what he was eating, always going to the muesli instead of the nuggets and "nuzzling" the food for a long time before eating. Based on this, we took him to the vet to check for dental issues. Our normal cavvy savvy vet is unfortunately on holiday so he was seen by another vet that is knowledgable on piggies. She checked in his mouth and could see overgrowth of the back teeth so we booked him in to have them filed that day (under anesthetic).

So they put him out and checked but could find no dental issues at all! Whilst he was under we requested an X-Ray (which they did) and also bloods (which they didn't do as they said it could only be done by a specialist vet which they did not have in the practice). They prescribed some metacam for pain relief and fibreplex for his gut

We bought Arche home yesterday (23rd) and have been keeping a careful eye on him. Last night he had some trouble passing faeces - he sort of went very still periodically and then moved his bum up in the air. One time he made a very quiet "pain" squeaks. I noticed he had a *very* long poo mixed with hay hanging from his behind yesterday so removed this and he has been passing faeces overnight but they are a little misshapen (maybe due to the fibreplex). He has been a little quieter than normal but is showing some symptoms this morning that are concerning, namely:

1) eating very few nuggets (still nuzzling at the bowl and usually walking away without ingesting any)
2) drinking little water (we kept him separateted over night and the drinks bottle level hardly moved)
3) his one (and only) eye is crusty. Not in the eye itself but around the outside (see picture). It was like this last night so we cleaned it but it's the same this morning.
4) loss of 30g overnight

The eye would point to a URI but we hadn't noticed this at all since he came back from the vets. Also he doesn't have the other usual symptoms such as labored breathing or sneezing and it wouldn't account for the prolonged weight loss. On the up side he is still eating hay and will happily chow down on the some veggies.

Our plan of action this morning is to syringe feed critical care and fluids to keep the weight on and take him back to the vets to maybe get some antibiotics but there's a lot of stuff that doesn't seem to add up so wanted to get some advice from you guys.. hope you can help.

Chris and Kim

ire1cof.jpg
Click to expand...

Hi!

The recent symptoms you are citing (runny eyes and funny poos) are typical for reacting to a GA. Please be aware that the poo output always reflects what has gone in/gone on a day or two before. The drugs in a GA can mess up the body, especially if not much food has gone in all day.

Please continue to offer additional syringe feed and water until can get to the bottom of what is cauding the weight loss. You can add a pinch of probiotics to additionally help support the guts if you wish to. Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

@helen105281 @Jaycey @Freela @furryfriends (TEAS)
 
I am totally confused here. So are we saying that your piggy was put under to have a dental but it wasn't needed? Why was a dental issue suspected? Was it only because the piggy was losing weight or was he eating awkwardly? Are we now saying he can't eat, but he could eat before being put under? Sorry if I am being really stupid here, but not really following what exactly is/has happened.
 
Ok so Archie was losing weight and he seemed to be very picky about what he would eat so we took him to the vet to have teeth checked.

The vet did an initial examination and said yes, she could see the back teeth are overgrown and should be investigated under a GA.

So Archie was put out but when they checked the teeth again under GA they could not find a problem! I suspect this was because Archie had a mouthful of food during the initial check so the vet thought she saw something that wasn't there.

While he was under we requested they perform X rays and take bloods.

They were unable to take the bloods as they did not have the expertise to do this apparently.

They took abdomen and skull x-rays, both of which showed no issues.

So we are back to square one not knowing what is causing the weight loss.

I hope this clears up the confusion.

We are considering taking him to Simon for a second opinion of he continues to lose weight over the next few days but wanted to seek advice from the forum f first :)
 
Well he was not eating any Nuggets or drinking any water overnight and seemed to be in discomfort passing poos.

But he is now regular as of late morning.

He does seem to be eating normally once the food is in his mouth - he happily chewed on a broccoli stalk and had no problems with kale.

But when eating Nuggets he snuffles around for ages in the muesli sometimes picking something up and sometimes giving up and walking off. He won't touch the regular whole Nuggets.

Maybe it's my imagination but I think he is eating slower than normal

More than happy to answer any questions you have!
 
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Forgot to mention that he has no problem with hay but does eat it quite slowly
 
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It is sounding mouth related. Sadly many vets have no idea what the teeth should look like. Many only seem to look to see if they are growing across the tongue. If they aren't, they say they're fine. Only recently Simon saw a pig who had been seen by a vet who said teeth were all fine. Bottom teeth weren't bad at all. Top teeth were growing into the cheek. Simon literally had to peel skin off the teeth to even access them. The soft tissue trauma was awful. As soon as he got the teeth filed to a normal length the piggy was able to eat well despite the awful ulceration. If you can make the trip I think seeing Simon is the way to go. Even if it's not dental he's likely to be able to diagnose what the problem is.
 
If you can get Archie to be seen by Simon Maddock in Northampton, please do so! Simon sees dental guinea pigs from all over Britain (as far as Edinburgh) on a daily basis and is by now the most experienced and practised vet when it comes to dental problems with guinea pigs and anything that could be related to eating and mouth problems, so he is sure to get to the bottom of Archie's problem.
Simon has saved a steadily increasing number guinea pigs whose vet were not able to cope, including my own local vets. It is really worth the trip as other members can attest!

The Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic
 
If you are going to see Simon you will need to make an appointment asap. As I mentioned, he is away after Tuesday next for CPD training and then he is on holiday the first week of the school holiday, so the 21st will be his last day of working. The week before he goes is manic. When he took holiday in April he had 40 guinea pig dentals to do in the week before he went. Most vets won't do that many in their whole career! It wont be quite so bad this time as he is only off for a week, but it will still be really busy.
 
OK. Unless we see a significant improvement over the next 24 hours we will try to arrange an appointment with Simon for Tuesday.

At the time of writing, a lot of the symptoms (such as difficulty pooing and the crusty eye) have cleared up so I think you were definitely right with that one, Wiebke! Maybe we paniced a little bit but he is our little baby. :)
 
The crusty eye could be related to anesthesia... depending on how how they give the gas, it can affect the eyes (some vets will pipe it into an enclosed space rather than put the mask only over their nose, which can lead to the eyes being irritated. It's promising that the eye looks better today. I definitely hope that you can get a clearer answer... it's always frustrating not knowing whether it's teeth or not (I agree that some of the symptoms sound dental, but frustrating if they don't see an issue with the teeth upon looking.) I would make sure to keep feeling along his jawline just in case there is an abscess brewing (though that might have shown on x-ray.) When Sundae had a dental abscess, she has issues with difficulty chewing, pulling her lips back while eating like food was stuck, etc.) for months before the actual abscess was apparent. She had her teeth filed once (for a spur that the vet found) and improved, and then had her teeth filed one other time for similar symptoms (even though the vet thought that her teeth looked pretty much normal.) She improved after each dental, then puffed up in an abscess, had that drained, and didn't have any further dental issues after that cleared. So I would definitely keep on feeling for lumps and bumps along the jaw when you have him out because sometimes these things can be brewing beneath the surface before finally becoming noticeable.
 
Freela said:
The crusty eye could be related to anesthesia... depending on how how they give the gas, it can affect the eyes (some vets will pipe it into an enclosed space rather than put the mask only over their nose, which can lead to the eyes being irritated. It's promising that the eye looks better today. I definitely hope that you can get a clearer answer... it's always frustrating not knowing whether it's teeth or not (I agree that some of the symptoms sound dental, but frustrating if they don't see an issue with the teeth upon looking.) I would make sure to keep feeling along his jawline just in case there is an abscess brewing (though that might have shown on x-ray.) When Sundae had a dental abscess, she has issues with difficulty chewing, pulling her lips back while eating like food was stuck, etc.) for months before the actual abscess was apparent. She had her teeth filed once (for a spur that the vet found) and improved, and then had her teeth filed one other time for similar symptoms (even though the vet thought that her teeth looked pretty much normal.) She improved after each dental, then puffed up in an abscess, had that drained, and didn't have any further dental issues after that cleared. So I would definitely keep on feeling for lumps and bumps along the jaw when you have him out because sometimes these things can be brewing beneath the surface before finally becoming noticeable.
Click to expand...

My wife checked his jawline and could feel nothing untoward..

We have decided to hold off seeing Simon as Archie is holding his own weight-wise at the moment and is very happy so we don't want to put him through unnecessary stress (and a possible GA) so soon as he didn't recover from the last one as quickly as we would have liked. We will monitor his weight and behavior extra closely over the next week or so and make a decision on what to do next based on that.

We did wonder if the hot weather might attribute to the weight loss (slightly dehydrated, less appetite etc). What do you think? We are now feeding him extra cucumber to make sure he gets the right fluids.

Thank you all so much for your replies and advice it has been super helpful as always. :)
 
Hi All,

I am pleased to report that Archie is a lot better now. Our vet suspected a fungal infection of the jaw based on a previous case and Archie was put on Interfungol medication for two weeks. He is now holding his own weight without additional feeding and is happily munching on full sized nuggets.

Needless to say we are both very relieved. :)

Thanks again for everyone's help on this one.
 
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