Dilly's Piggies
Teenage Guinea Pig
Two of my piggies were diagnosed with bladder sludge today so need to have a bladder flush under GA, I know GA itself is risky, but is a bladder flush dangerous or easy for piggies to go through?
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Are bladder flushes major surgery for guinea pigs?
- Thread starter Dilly's Piggies
- Start date
D
DMS260820
Good question. I would like to know this aswell. Always wondered
Hi!
A bladder flush is basically just that - a very gentle and slow injection of a little fluid by syringe (about 1 ml) into the bladder to help wash out any sludge. Because the piggy needs to be still and it is not the most comfortable of procedures, it can require some degree of anaesthesia for sedation but because it is a much quicker procedure, the time your piggy is under should be a lot shorter. The longer your piggy is under full GA, the higher generally the risk of a slow recovery.
If any sludge is too tightly packed, then it requires a proper operation as there is a major risk of a flush not working and also of crystals being embedded in the bladder walls.
A flush is not invasive the way a full bladder operation as it doesn't involve any surgery whatsoever. My frail and tiny Cariad had about 5 or 6 over the two years she lived after developing a large stone very quickly when her calcium absorption went suddenly out of kilter and it was very difficult to work out her diet in order to extend the intervals between flushes. I have been allowed to watch Simon Maddock do one of the later and more minor ones on Cariad without any anaesthesia. It took only about 5 minutes of her consultation time and she was a lot perkier coming home without the irritation from her bladder!
The risk with a bladder flush comes when it is done by an inexperienced vet who is pushing too much water too hard into the bladder, causing the bladder contents to back up into the kidneys, which can have fatal consequences. In the hands of an expert it is however a much more gentle and non-invasive procedure from which your piggy should just wake up and behave like normal - just without the instant discomfort and pain in the bladder. These days, it is generally much less used and only by vets who are very careful in applying it after a first fad about 10 years ago.
Personally, I'd go for a flush over a bladder operation (where applicable) anytime with a vet I trust; especially with any frailer piggies.
Please make sure that you either feed low calcium bottled water or doubly filtered water to any piggies with bladder sludge or stones. Finding the right ratio of calcium can be tricky but it is generally easier if you can eliminate any hard water from the diet and feed 1 tablespoon of low calcium pellets. Bladder sludge is more common in bad drinkers as their bladder is not flushed as much when they are peeing; but you cannot force a piggy to drink more.
Dilly's Piggies
Teenage Guinea Pig
Thank you Wiebke for the very detailed and quick response! This made me feel a little better about it to know it's not that invasive like a stone removal... One pig is almost 5 years old but very healthy and the other is only 3 years but she's quite frail, has been through a lot in her life so I'm worried about both of them... They want to do it so we have kind of a 'clean slate' because I've made a lot of changes to their diet and lifestyle to help their conditions but it's not working as well as it should, so the vet said it's best to flush them and start over, do you think that's a good idea or not?
As stated in my post above, getting the diet right for your location takes time and it also takes time to work any calcium out of the body in my own experience with my piggies.
A bladder flush when done properly can help. Too many will be life-shortening, but for me it was more important that Cariad was as comfortable as possible while she lived than that she lived a few weeks or months longer. She was about 3 years old when she had her stone, an emergency spaying op only 5 months after that and several bladder flushes in between and after, although the latter thankfully at lengthening intervals until she became too frail for them. But she was 5 years when she died.
That is why I know that Cariad developed her own 10 mm stone so quickly because she had a first bladder flush from Simon only weeks before when she suddenly developed a cystitis which was refusing to go away and instead got worse despite treatment.
I can't add anything to Wiebkes wonderful explanation, and advice and in fact it is her advice that got me through this when Ruby had a bladder flush.
But I wanted to add a small happy ending.
A year ago Ruby developed serious sludge very rapidly, and ended up with a full blockage in less than 24 hours.
She was extremely ill and our specialist vet said she may well need surgery.
However once she was under GA the vet was able to clear the blockage with a flush and no surgery was required.
Ruby took a while to recover, and pain relief, syringe feeding, and a long course of antibiotics all helped to get her through.
But it has been well over a year now and despite the vet feeling she would be prone to bladder sludge/stones as they often reoccur, adjusting her diet means she has not had any problems since then*.
So it was well worth 'starting with a clean slate' as you say.
*I mean no bladder problems obviously - her personal skills and behavior are still a nightmare
Dilly's Piggies
Teenage Guinea Pig
My piggies sludge isn't bad, the vet said it is a small amount but enough to cause discomfort, do you guys think a flush is really necessary or should I persist with the changes I've made diet wise? The vet only wants to give them a week for improvement, I don't see improvement happening that fast... It has been a month since I made changes and I have seen improvement, it's slight but better nonetheless. I just want to know what the best thing to do is, even if it goes against my vets advice? You guys have way more experience than me so I value what you say very much...
As stated above, improvement can take a few months to fully filter through the system. If it is really only a little and if it is not yet causing any noticeable symptoms, then I would give it a bit more time and monitor/reassess the progress once monthly; but you will have to discuss the benefits/draw-backs of potentially repeated bladder flushes against a longer monitoring period with your treating vet.
Flushing - unless there is a considerable build-up - may be of more benefit once your changes have taken effect as long as any sludge build-up is still on the minor side.
Whether you are dealing with sludge or bladder stones, they can initially re-form within weeks of removal until the body has had time to work any surplus calcium out and any problems in the calcium absorption to rebalance. If your changes are still ongoing, it is not a matter of a week or two to truly filter out what is still in the system; it is more of a matter of 2-3 months or even longer, depending on what has been causing it and until you have finessed your diet.