Dental Are these teeth too short?

[luckyandsammy]

Sammy went to the vets today with diarrhoea and blood in his urine.
The vet said his teeth looked too long and offered to burr them so I said okay as she said maybe they were stopping him from eating as much and that caused the diarrhoea?
He didn’t have any problems with eating before the vet visit but now he can’t pick up food, he keeps trying to but it falls out of his mouth and if I hold a piece up for him he just kind of sucks on it. His teeth look too short to me and I think that’s why he can’t pick up any food. I’m also very angry as it means I have to syringe feed now.
What do you think?

 

[Wiebke]

Hi!

Has your vet just treated the front teeth or the ones at the back. Incisors, which are responsible for picking up and cutting food are normally self-sharpening against each other in a balanced system with ground down molars at the back which do the chewing. It rather looks like your vet has messed it up. What they have done at the front is very untidy.
Vet Locator

Please offer timothy based syringe feed (to replace the crucial silica rich hay fibre; the abrasive silica in grass and hay is what keeps the teeth at the back ground down), fresh green grass, slice soft veg like lettuce in fine strips and offer soft herbs and look for another vet if possible. Grate any harder veg and if necessary place it in the mouth.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide (also see chapter on dental piggies)

@furryfriends (TEAS)

 

[luckyandsammy]

Hi!

Has your vet just treated the front teeth or the ones at the back. Incisors, which are responsible for picking up and cutting food are normally self-sharpening against each other in a balanced system with ground down molars at the back which do the chewing. It rather looks like your vet has messed it up. What they have done at the front is very untidy.
Vet Locator

Please offer timothy based syringe feed (to replace the crucial silica rich hay fibre; the abrasive silica in grass and hay is what keeps the teeth at the back ground down), fresh green grass, slice soft veg like lettuce in fine strips and offer soft herbs and look for another vet if possible. Grate any harder veg and if necessary place it in the mouth.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide (also see chapter on dental piggies)

@furryfriends (TEAS)

yeah, she only did the front ones. She said she couldn’t see the back ones as he had food in his mouth?

I have oxbow critical care and I have given him some of that. I can’t give him any veggies as she said to keep him off it for a week because of the diarrhoea (his poos are more solid now but still soft)

I’m so mad to be honest, I left with more problems then I went in with.

 

[Wiebke]

yeah, she only did the front ones. She said she couldn’t see the back ones as he had food in his mouth?

I have oxbow critical care and I have given him some of that. I can’t give him any veggies as she said to keep him off it for a week because of the diarrhoea (his poos are more solid now but still soft)

I’m so mad to be honest, I left with more problems then I went in with.

Please try to switch to a different vet. They are definitely not piggy savvy! The good news is that the incisors should grow back and self sharpen again in a matter of days. Incisors that are slanted, jagged or inward point (no longer self-sharpening) or either a sign of pain (developing abscess) in the incisor roots or a sign of overgrowing premolars and molars which can grow spurs that bridge the tongue.

If you really have serious dental issues at any point, then please book an appointment at the Cat&Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton. You and your piggy will be in the safest and most practised hands in the country there. They perform around 25 piggy dentals in a week and see piggies from as far as Cornwall and Aberdeen. it is well worth for travelling for proper dental treatment whenever necessary.
Unfortunately Simon and Kim Maddock are currently on holiday.
Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic | Northlands Vets

See our vet locator in my previous post for recommended vets within your reach for other health issues.

 

[luckyandsammy]

Please try to switch to a different vet. They are definitely not piggy savvy! The good news is that the incisors should grow back and self sharpen again in a matter of days. Incisors that are slanted, jagged or inward point (no longer self-sharpening) or either a sign of pain (developing abscess) in the incisor roots or a sign of overgrowing premolars and molars which can grow spurs that bridge the tongue.

If you really have serious dental issues at any point, then please book an appointment at the Cat&Rabbit Care Clinic in Northampton. You and your piggy will be in the safest and most practised hands in the country there. They perform around 25 piggy dentals in a week and see piggies from as far as Cornwall and Aberdeen. it is well worth for travelling for proper dental treatment whenever necessary.
Unfortunately Simon and Kim Maddock are currently on holiday.
Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic | Northlands Vets

See our vet locator in my previous post for recommended vets within your reach for other health issues.

Thank you for all your help, I will definitely look into switching vets (again )

I didn’t think he had any teeth problems to be honest (until now) he’s always really greedy and finishes his food before the piggy he lives with and then tries to take his as well.

So when his incisors grow back, will his back teeth be okay (assuming there were no problems with them) or will they be messed up because the front ones were cut badly?

I have a picture from a few months ago, do his teeth look too long in it? Please ignore the broken tooth, he broke it on the cage bars (which is why I took the picture) but it grew back evenly, I don’t have a picture with them normal as I don’t usually think to take a photo of their teeth

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you for all your help, I will definitely look into switching vets (again )

I didn’t think he had any teeth problems to be honest (until now) he’s always really greedy and finishes his food before the piggy he lives with and then tries to take his as well.

So when his incisors grow back, will his back teeth be okay (assuming there were no problems with them) or will they be messed up because the front ones were cut badly?

I have a picture from a few months ago, do his teeth look too long in it? Please ignore the broken tooth, he broke it on the cage bars (which is why I took the picture) but it grew back evenly, I don’t have a picture with them normal as I don’t usually think to take a photo of their teeth
View attachment 150619

They don't look right in that they are jagged. I would strongly recommend that you book an appointment in Northampton (they are in high demand so you want to do this sooner rather than later) to have him checked any dental issues properly dealt with. Dental piggies can eat after being to see Simon or Kim so it is well worth the trip.

 

[luckyandsammy]

Thank you, I’ll see what I can do. I don’t drive so it might be a bit tricky.

 

[Freela]

It's definitely worth seeing a vet with dental experience. The trim of the incisors looks uneven, but the teeth before the trim also look out of alignment. Dental problems start at the back (the teeth the vet said they couldn't see.) Having someone with experience check the whole mouth (including the rear molars) is the best way to figure out what's going on and if there's any problem.

 

[Bill & Ted]

Simon Maddock at the Cat and Rabbit Clinic in Northampton is the vet to see. He is the most experienced vet when it comes to guinea dental problems. He will check the back teeth and do any work that needs doing while the piggie is conscious and is very reasonably priced. Owners travel from around Britain to get expert care, me included!

Cat and Rabbit Care Clinic | Northlands Vets

 

[luckyandsammy]

Hello.
So I have complained to the vets about Sammy’s treatment and this is what they wrote back. At the time of the appointment the vet said she couldn’t see his molars as he had food in his mouth so I’m not very impressed with them making this up. His teeth have definitely been trimmed too short, I am still syringe feeding him and cutting up vegetables into tiny pieces so that he can pick them up easily. What should I say in my reply?

 

[Bill & Ted]

If you can possibly get to Northampton to the Cat and Rabbit clinic then that is your best option. The vets there Simon and Kim Maddock always clean the mouths of guinea pigs first as they always have food in them, even if they have not recently eaten, it’s just standard practice. The molars should have been checked and filed while your piggie was under GA while they did the incisors. Cutting incisors too short is a very common mistake made by vets with limited experience in guinea pig dentistry, they assume piggie incisors need to be cut short like rabbit incisors. I have experienced this too and so have many other forum members. So sorry for you, is there no family or friends who can get you there or perhaps look at other forms of transport, you won’t be disappointed

 

[luckyandsammy]

If you can possibly get to Northampton to the Cat and Rabbit clinic then that is your best option. The vets there Simon and Kim Maddock always clean the mouths of guinea pigs first as they always have food in them, even if they have not recently eaten, it’s just standard practice. The molars should have been checked and filed while your piggie was under GA while they did the incisors. Cutting incisors too short is a very common mistake made by vets with limited experience in guinea pig dentistry, they assume piggie incisors need to be cut short like rabbit incisors. I have experienced this too and so have many other forum members. So sorry for you, is there no family or friends who can get you there or perhaps look at other forms of transport, you won’t be disappointed

I can’t get to Northampton right now, I don’t drive and I don’t know anyone willing to drive me that far. Train tickets cost around £70 (that’s one way, I haven’t checked returns) which I can’t afford as I’m on an apprenticeship wage.

They didn’t put Sammy under anaesthetic to do his front teeth, they did it while he was conscious.
I’m not sure what to write in my reply to the vets and that was my question in my previous post
Surely his incisors should meet and he shouldn’t be unable to pick up his food? He didn’t have any problems with eating before they did this to his teeth. I just don’t know how to word my reply.

 

[luckyandsammy]

Also, when I took him to the vets I took my other pig he lives with, Smudge, for company.
The vet said Sammy’s 300g lighter than Smudge - Sammy IS very thin, but he has always been a small pig and he has gotten skinnier with age. He is 5 years old now and Smudge is 11 months.
They also compared Smudge’s teeth to Sammy’s and that’s how they came to the conclusion that Sammy’s are too long. This doesn’t seem like a good way of doing things to me but I am not an expert. Do vets normally do this?

I didn’t even go in with any eating/mouth/teeth issues. Sammy has eaten the same as he always has BEFORE we went to the vets and they messed up his teeth. I went in with blood in his urine and they decided to compare their teeth. Oh and I’ll add that Smudge wasn’t even there for a check up, he was just there for comfort so I’m not sure why they were weighing him and looking at his teeth...

 

[Bill & Ted]

Oh dear they should not have cut his incisors, they look quite short and uneven on the photo. Piggies come in all size. My Ted is 5 years old and he has lost weight over this year. I think they do start to get a bit bony over 5 years. You can’t really compare one piggie against another.
I would complain to the vets that they should not have cut his incisors without your permission and he was eating before he had the procedure done and not eating now. Also, that was not the reason why he was brought in. They needed to investigate the blood in Sammy’s urine. I’m so sorry they have cut his teeth so short, this happened to my Ted, they were cut so short he couldn’t pick up any food and required me place bit of food in his mouth, they didn’t meet in the middle either. It’s so sad that vet don’t learn guinea pig dentistry, and this is one of the most commonest problems. Sammy’s incisors will grow back, it will take a bit of time and some hand feeding, good luck x
I can’t advise about the molars, as only a vet can look into the back of the mouth a see what they are like, slanted incisors can be a sign molarS are overgrown

 

[luckyandsammy]

Oh dear they should not have cut his incisors, they look quite short and uneven on the photo. Piggies come in all size. My Ted is 5 years old and he has lost weight over this year. I think they do start to get a bit bony over 5 years. You can’t really compare one piggie against another.
I would complain to the vets that they should not have cut his incisors without your permission and he was eating before he had the procedure done and not eating now. Also, that was not the reason why he was brought in. They needed to investigate the blood in Sammy’s urine. I’m so sorry they have cut his teeth so short, this happened to my Ted, they were cut so short he couldn’t pick up any food and required me place bit of food in his mouth, they didn’t meet in the middle either. It’s so sad that vet don’t learn guinea pig dentistry, and this is one of the most commonest problems. Sammy’s incisors will grow back, it will take a bit of time and some hand feeding, good luck x
I can’t advise about the molars, as only a vet can look into the back of the mouth a see what they are like, slanted incisors can be a sign molarS are overgrown

Yeah, I have complained as I was very angry with them, the email above is what they replied with and honestly I feel like they’re just trying to come up with excuses.
I definitely do not want to take him back there and if I do notice him having trouble with eating when his front teeth grow back I’m planning to take him to an exotics vet closer to me (still quite far but more doable) it’s animates in bourne and it is on the recommended vets list so I’m hoping they will be able to have a proper look.

I just need to deal with this vet right now as I feel they should take some responsibility, they clearly messed up in my opinion and seem to want me to pay for more of their services which I find quite rude to be honest.

 

[DougalandDiego]

I’m so sorry you’re having such a difficult time with your piggy’s teeth. I would agree with the other members that Simon and Kim are the best option to get your piggy’s teeth sorted as they have such a great reputation. I hope whatever you decide to do it works out or you manage to find a guinea pig specialist closer to you that can help your little pig!

 

[Bill & Ted]

I would expect any vets to discuss any procedures first and that you were in agreement first before they proceeded, apart from obviously unforeseen complications or Emergency situations.
Weigh Sammy at the same time everyday and hand feed him small pieces of veggies, plus step in with syringe feeding if he is loosing weight on a downward trend over the space of a few days. You can find the syringe feeding guides on the Guinea Pig Guides section on the green bar
Top up feeds are always helpful till his teeth grow back if he is struggling to eat hay

Wishing your little piggie a speedy recovery, hope you can get his urine problem sorted out soon x

 

[Bill & Ted]

Here’s the link Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

 

[Betsy]

If you didn't ask for your piggies teeth to be trimmed they really shouldn't have done it without your consent. I think you have a good reason for a complaint. Is the vet and independant or a franchise/chain? If the latter I suggest you complain to the CEO.

 

[Gigi and Quinn]

Even if the incisors were uneven they didn’t trim them correctly. In the code of professional conduct from RVCS vets have to stay within their field of knowledge - whoever did the teeth isn’t experienced in pig dentistry - and provide care that is “appropriate and adequate“, which it hasn’t been because your pet can’t eat. As others have said having food in the back of the mouth is no reason for an experienced vet to not be able to access the molars.
My thoughts on this is that they haven’t found the cause of the blood in the urine which could be causing reduced appetite and the teeth to overgrow some and have instead added to your problems. They should not need to have another pig present to compare yours against and if a comparison was made it would have to be a pig the same age to be a fair comparison.
If you aren’t happy with how they’ve dealt with your complaint you can take it higher.
I hope Sammy‘s teeth grow back and he feels better soon.

 

[Roselina]

I’m sorry you have this awful problem added to the existing one. I do think you have a cause for complaint - it dies centre around consent - they should have gained your consent and fully explained why they felt it was necessary. I would not go back there with your piggies. Travel is clearly difficult for you to Northampton. As you have found an exotic vet on the tgpf list nearer to you I would go there. Follow the excellent advice you’ve been given and hopefully Sammy will recover - sending you all healing hugs