hi there sorry for the long post ....... Recently Mouse (my guinea pig) had surgery to remove a bladder stone. The xray showed that his stifle joints (Knees) are hugely inflamed and he has bad arthritis in them. I had noticed some bunny hopping but only for a week before he ended up having surgery. His weight had dropped and still his appetite is less than usual so I'm suplimenting with syringe feeds. I'm sure this is because he still seems to find movement painful although he's not crying when he poos now. Post surgery the vet has tried Metacam and Rimadyl (only 5 mg daily Cambridge Cavy hospital say up to 10mg can be given daily but the vet is unhappy to give that much). I have now come home with a prescription of tramadol but as yet have not given it as I am concerned about possible side effects on Mouse. I may try it tomorrow as I am around all day to keep a close eye on him. My question is has anyone given Osteocare to a pig with who has had a bladder stone before? I have just started him on Johnsons 4joints (for dogs) which was suggested to me by a rodentologist but I've read elsewhere people having great results with Osteocare. My concern is that it looks like it has a lot of Calcium in it and I'm concerned that with his past bladder stone I should not be adding in a lot of calcium to his diet. The vet said she thought he got the bladder stone from the pain from the arthritis and him not eating and drinking and moving properly rather than the diet he has. There was no calcium sludge on the x-ray and his urine testing is fine but even so I'm guessing I should still be careful with adding extra calcium into his diet? Any advice gratefully received!
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Arthritis
- Thread starter Lizi
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helen105281
Senior Guinea Pig
I think there are some members on here who have used it so hopefully you will get some responses. Have you considered vegan glucosamine? it would actually help with his bladder too as it helps protect the bladder wall.
D
DM030819
My 6.5 year old boar has arthritis "in all of his joints" according to his vet. He's currently on Metacam and glucosamine and it's keeping his pain under control.
He's also had two bladder stones in his life, and still suffers from sludge. Personally I wouldn't use Osteocare as I would prefer to deal with helping him with the pain from the arthritis rather than possibly dealing with another bladder stone surgery at this age.
I'm surprised that your vet wouldn't increase his Metacam dose, but will happily prescribe what some vets see as "the big guns" Tramadol. I've only ever used that twice, and that was for the same pig when he was in terrible pain from his stone before and after surgery.
He's also had two bladder stones in his life, and still suffers from sludge. Personally I wouldn't use Osteocare as I would prefer to deal with helping him with the pain from the arthritis rather than possibly dealing with another bladder stone surgery at this age.
I'm surprised that your vet wouldn't increase his Metacam dose, but will happily prescribe what some vets see as "the big guns" Tramadol. I've only ever used that twice, and that was for the same pig when he was in terrible pain from his stone before and after surgery.
Thanks for your reply Helen. Could you tell me what type and dose vegan glucosamine you are giving? I have only just realised they use shellfish for conventional glycoside! . The dose I am giving using the 4joints is equal to 16mg daily. It is useful as it is in liquid form and I can syringe it into his mouth.
Hi Jaycey the vet has prescribed 0.3ml daily of dog Metacam and has said that's as high as we can go. She said I could add in the tramadol to the Metacam. I am like you concerned about using the tramadol but after seeing him in pain today I have just given him 5mg and am now going to spend the afternoon and evening watching him like a hawk! Have you used much higher quantities of Metacam with your piggies? Vet has talked about a course of injections too if we can't get him out of pain and happy on the meds we're currently juggling with.
D
DM030819
@Lizi My piggy has 0.25ml twice daily of the dog Metacam. The vet said we have a little bit of wiggle room to increase on a short term basis, but wouldn't want to go higher than 0.3ml twice a day long term.
My piggy was absolutely fine with the Tramadol, he was actually on both that and Metacam. He had it just before his bladder stone surgery as he needed to wait a couple of days for the exotics vet to get back from holiday.
The injections are interesting, I wonder what it is, is the vet say? Injections are a great way to get things into their systems quickly. The only downside is they have thick skin so it does hurt a bit. But, in the long run it's sometimes worth it.
My piggy was absolutely fine with the Tramadol, he was actually on both that and Metacam. He had it just before his bladder stone surgery as he needed to wait a couple of days for the exotics vet to get back from holiday.
The injections are interesting, I wonder what it is, is the vet say? Injections are a great way to get things into their systems quickly. The only downside is they have thick skin so it does hurt a bit. But, in the long run it's sometimes worth it.
D
DM030819
@Lizi My piggy has 0.25ml twice daily of the dog Metacam. The vet said we have a little bit of wiggle room to increase on a short term basis, but wouldn't want to go higher than 0.3ml twice a day long term.
My piggy was absolutely fine with the Tramadol, he was actually on both that and Metacam. He had it just before his bladder stone surgery as he needed to wait a couple of days for the exotics vet to get back from holiday.
The injections are interesting, I wonder what it is, is the vet say? Injections are a great way to get things into their systems quickly. The only downside is they have thick skin so it does hurt a bit. But, in the long run it's sometimes worth it.
My piggy was absolutely fine with the Tramadol, he was actually on both that and Metacam. He had it just before his bladder stone surgery as he needed to wait a couple of days for the exotics vet to get back from holiday.
The injections are interesting, I wonder what it is, is the vet say? Injections are a great way to get things into their systems quickly. The only downside is they have thick skin so it does hurt a bit. But, in the long run it's sometimes worth it.
I assumed the injection was a steroid injection but my vet ( who is an exotics vet ) said not exactly?!? We then started talking about tramadol so I didn't actually get the name of it. I'll let you know if we do end up trying it. It's interesting to see that you are using long-term higher dose of Metacam it's very difficult for me to feel I can push the vet when she brings out the exotics drug manual to prove that the Metacam and Rimadyl doses she's prescribed can't go higher, when I have heard that other people are using larger doses.
helen105281
Senior Guinea Pig
I use this one and dose at 250mg a day but the starting dose is usually 125mg a day.
http://www.shopvegan.co.uk/productdetail.asp?ItemRef=70
helen105281
Senior Guinea Pig
My bottle doesn't have any in it but I think they may have changed the ingredients since. It was originally recommended to me by someone who had done at lot of research on bladder issues and diet so they were happy with the levels. I think the ingredient change must have happened since I last bought it.
I have used tramadol drops for my 7.5 year old sow who has moderate arthritis in her hips and very mild arthritic changes in the base of her spine.. The tramadol was added in as she had pain of unknown origin (turns out she had a stone lodged at the tip of the urethra). The tramadol drops where given at 0.01ml (tiny amount) once or twice a day but this was a starting dose, yet it done the trick with her and she had no side effects from it.
She also on metacam, a half dose every 12 hours (0.075ml) dog metacam. The reason for the low dose is fudge is in heart failure and the heart meds and high dose diuretics cause kidney damage- hence the hesitation to go crazy with metacam too x
She also on metacam, a half dose every 12 hours (0.075ml) dog metacam. The reason for the low dose is fudge is in heart failure and the heart meds and high dose diuretics cause kidney damage- hence the hesitation to go crazy with metacam too x
I have used tramadol drops for my 7.5 year old sow who has moderate arthritis in her hips and very mild arthritic changes in the base of her spine.. The tramadol was added in as she had pain of unknown origin (turns out she had a stone lodged at the tip of the urethra). The tramadol drops where given at 0.01ml (tiny amount) once or twice a day but this was a starting dose, yet it done the trick with her and she had no side effects from it.
She also on metacam, a half dose every 12 hours (0.075ml) dog metacam. The reason for the low dose is fudge is in heart failure and the heart meds and high dose diuretics cause kidney damage- hence the hesitation to go crazy with metacam too x
She also on metacam, a half dose every 12 hours (0.075ml) dog metacam. The reason for the low dose is fudge is in heart failure and the heart meds and high dose diuretics cause kidney damage- hence the hesitation to go crazy with metacam too x
That's interesting I didn't know you could get liquid tramadol. Do you remember what the strength of the tramadol was per 0.1mls?
Thanks for the input so far. I decided to try Mouse on 5mg Tramadol with 5mg Rimadyl (splitting the meds, one am the other pm). I've kept him on the 4joints too ( although it's a lower dose and may take longer to help) the vet says I really must stay away from the other supplements that use Calcium with the Glucosamine. Mouse has had three days on the tramodol and I have to say I think he is moving easier and appears to have less pain. He's not too zombied out either. I think there is a time 2 hours after he has the tablet that he's a bit quieter but he's still eating during that time. An hour later he's seems more perky and pain free. Today I gave him the tramadol in the morning and the Rimadyl this afternoon and that seems to have worked the best so far. Will see how we get on..........
Its 100mg per ml, so 10mg per 0.1ml. I was advised 0.01ml once or twice a day which is 1mg.. My vet did say this was just a low starting dose but it did take the edge off for fudge, that was with a bladder stone and arthritis!
Thanks for that info Adelle. If I do end up using the tramadol long term with Mouse liquid would be an easier route to take than dividing tablets etc and easier to slowly (hopefully) reduce the amount
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