At a loss. What am I doing so wrong?

[Shadow7]

This might be a long one so I appreciate your time.

I'm at a complete loss with my four guinea pigs.

Background:
I am an experienced owner and have had piggies for nearly ten years now. Up until 18 months ago, I've kept them outside but after moving to the city, they're now indoor pets.

For failed bonding reasons, I ended up with two pairs: Pip (6yo neutered boar) + Tatty (2.5yo neutered sow) and then Shadow (7yo sow) + Coral (9mo sow)

I lost Shadow, my 7 year old sow about a month ago and that's when everything seems to have gone wrong. All three of the others are extremely depressed, not eating well (apart from veggies) and not moving much. Even Pip and Tatty, who rejected her when bonding seem to be really down. All three have dull coats now, have lost weight, an alarming amount tbh, up to 60g.

They were living in an L shaped c&c with 6x2 each with a partition. They got on really well as long as the partition was there!

When Shadow was put down, I attempted to bond Coral with Pip and Tatty but they rejected her. Tatty was lunging and aggressive towards her so after a week of attempts I decided to call it a day.

A week ago, we adopted a 3yo neutered boar, Bran to keep Coral company. The catch was he was only 2 weeks post neuter so we've still got a while to go before they can live together.

For the first week, I kept him in a completely separate 4x2 in the same room. I then moved him up to the L shape so he and Coral can see each other through a partition and begin their bonding process. I'm happy with how that's going so far.

When Bran arrived, he was glorious. Glossy coat, 1.3kg, a little quiet but that's to be expected. Now, although his personality is coming out and he seems fine, his coat is dulling like my others and he's lost 50g in one week!

I feed nature's own brand of hay (it's mixed grasses), Timothy hay, dried grasses along with Burgess Excel pellets and veggies (around a handful/cup each) every day. They have both water bowls and bottles (apart from Coral who can't drink from a water bottle).

What am I doing wrong? Is it stress and upset as a lot has happened over the past few weeks?

I am really worried, especially about Coral who spends most of her time hiding these days. She has also gone from being soft and fluffy (she's part bred texel) to dull and coarse.

They've all had mite treatment recently so I don't think that is a possible cause for coat and skin changes.

Do I just need to wait this period out?

 

[Piggies&buns]

Welcome to the forum

I’m sorry to hear of your loss and the issues you are now facing.
You aren’t doing anything wrong.

A normal weekly swing in weight can be anything up to 50g without it being of concern. More than 50g and you go on alert - switching to daily weight checks and preparing to step in with syringe feeding if losses continue. 100g of weight loss within 1-2 days is an emergency.
So while they are losing weight, the weight loss on its own (not taking anything else into account) has only just reached the concern point. But add in the other things you are noticing, and I too would be getting concerned of what might be going on.

There has been a lot of changes and stress for them. It would be very conceivable that Bran’s weight loss could be down to stress of a new home, recently neutered etc.
Coral’s down to the loss of shadow and now the fact she is alone (pending bran’s wait)
Pip and Tatty would have noticed shadow’s passing, it would just be a bit unclear as to how much they would actually be affected.

Did they have mites diagnosed as an active infestation?
I ask this as it is not recommended to treat for mites preventatively/routinely.
It should only be done if there is an active case, and then the treatment needs to be done as a full course (with the correct interval between each treatment - usually two weeks) using vet strength products (not pet shop products).
Preventative/routine treatments are not recommended as they can lead to resistance forming meaning mites can become a problem and the resistance making an active infestation harder to deal with.
The fact it is going on their skin, it’s possible it could be a reason for skin and coat issues but it would seem strange for them all to have reacted in the same way; or possibly there is a parasite issue going on

I would suggest a vet check just to rule out whether there is anything else going on other than the stress and them needing time to adjust to the new situations.
I would also suggest switching to weighing them all daily. Step in with syringe feeding if more weight is lost.

It’s important to rule out health issues first, but is there anything else you can think of? - if they are on fleece bedding, have you changed washing detergent; or if disposable is it a different bedding type?
Check pellet amounts are just one tablespoon per pig per day so you can rule out them eating too many pellets and consequently dropping hay intake.

I hope they are ok and let us know how things go

Weight and Weight Loss Explained: BMI, Weighing, Poos and Feeding Support Levels

 

[Wiebke]

This might be a long one so I appreciate your time.

I'm at a complete loss with my four guinea pigs.

Background:
I am an experienced owner and have had piggies for nearly ten years now. Up until 18 months ago, I've kept them outside but after moving to the city, they're now indoor pets.

For failed bonding reasons, I ended up with two pairs: Pip (6yo neutered boar) + Tatty (2.5yo neutered sow) and then Shadow (7yo sow) + Coral (9mo sow)

I lost Shadow, my 7 year old sow about a month ago and that's when everything seems to have gone wrong. All three of the others are extremely depressed, not eating well (apart from veggies) and not moving much. Even Pip and Tatty, who rejected her when bonding seem to be really down. All three have dull coats now, have lost weight, an alarming amount tbh, up to 60g.

They were living in an L shaped c&c with 6x2 each with a partition. They got on really well as long as the partition was there!

When Shadow was put down, I attempted to bond Coral with Pip and Tatty but they rejected her. Tatty was lunging and aggressive towards her so after a week of attempts I decided to call it a day.

A week ago, we adopted a 3yo neutered boar, Bran to keep Coral company. The catch was he was only 2 weeks post neuter so we've still got a while to go before they can live together.

For the first week, I kept him in a completely separate 4x2 in the same room. I then moved him up to the L shape so he and Coral can see each other through a partition and begin their bonding process. I'm happy with how that's going so far.

When Bran arrived, he was glorious. Glossy coat, 1.3kg, a little quiet but that's to be expected. Now, although his personality is coming out and he seems fine, his coat is dulling like my others and he's lost 50g in one week!

I feed nature's own brand of hay (it's mixed grasses), Timothy hay, dried grasses along with Burgess Excel pellets and veggies (around a handful/cup each) every day. They have both water bowls and bottles (apart from Coral who can't drink from a water bottle).

What am I doing wrong? Is it stress and upset as a lot has happened over the past few weeks?

I am really worried, especially about Coral who spends most of her time hiding these days. She has also gone from being soft and fluffy (she's part bred texel) to dull and coarse.

They've all had mite treatment recently so I don't think that is a possible cause for coat and skin changes.

Do I just need to wait this period out?

Hi and welcome

Just on the very out, but since we have seen a very few cases over the years, have you checked your gas alarm? Gas poisoning can start with very, very vague and very puzzling symptoms of being off since all piggies are affected.

It is in any case worth checking out as an environmental factor, since all your piggies including your new Bran are affected. Guinea pigs are much smaller with a much a much smaller immune system compared to humans and react before we do.

It is in any case worth ruling out. With all your piggies suddenly not quite right you need to look at potential environmental angles and not necessarily your personal care. That is just our species-specific human hang-up, that we reflect everything onto ourselves first and foremost onto ourselves instead of looking at other factors that can affect all your piggies with the frailest worst.

 

[Shadow7]

Thank you for taking the time to reply. Yes, Shadow was diagnosed with an active mite case, so the whole herd was treated. Pip and Tatty were being treated routinely by the rescue we got them from though so that's interesting.

Detergent wise, nothing significant had changed. I try not to use much if any detergent unless something is particularly grotty.

I will gradually reduce their pellets as I've been going roughly on what it says on the bag feeding instructions and it's quite a lot more than a tablespoon per day! However I have still been feeding less that it says to.

I'll have a word with the vets and see what they think!

I'll update.

 

[Shadow7]

Hi and welcome

Just on the very out, but since we have seen a very few cases over the years, have you checked your gas alarm? Gas poisoning can start with very, very vague and very puzzling symptoms of being off since all piggies are affected.

It is in any case worth checking out as an environmental factor, since all your piggies including your new Bran are affected. Guinea pigs are much smaller with a much a much smaller respiratory system compared to humans and react before we do.

It is in any case worth ruling out. With all your piggies suddenly not quite right you need to look at potential environmental angles and not necessarily your personal care. That is just our species-specific human hang-up, that we reflect everything onto ourselves first and foremost onto ourselves instead of looking at other factors that can affect all your piggies with the frailest worst.

That's a good shout but we've got no gas in the building! I have considered ventilation issues though but I keep the window open or cracked 24/7, sometimes even in winter so not too sure about that.

 

[Wiebke]

That's a good shout but we've got no gas in the building! I have considered ventilation issues though but I keep the window open or cracked 24/7, sometimes even in winter so not too sure about that.

I still wonder whether it is an environmental issue rather than an infectious problem since all your piggies are affected. Unfortunately, it is a very wide field...

 

[Shadow7]

I still wonder whether it is an environmental issue rather than an infectious problem since all your piggies are affected. Unfortunately, it is a very wide field...

Could it be lighting? It's a well lit room I'd say but only a small window.

We are in the city but it's not a particularly built up area and we're on a river bank so get a lot of wind and fresh air. So I don't think it's an air quality thing.

I could try them on bottled water to see if it's that.

But you're right... Massive field and so many possibilities.

 

[Wiebke]

Could it be lighting? It's a well lit room I'd say but only a small window.

We are in the city but it's not a particularly built up area and we're on a river bank so get a lot of wind and fresh air. So I don't think it's an air quality thing.

I could try them on bottled water to see if it's that.

But you're right... Massive field and so many possibilities.

I don't think it is the lighting. Have there been any changes repairs etc. around the time your old lady fell ill and died? Are you using any potentially perfumed products? Sorry, I can only guess wildly.
Irritants to Avoid Around Guinea Pigs

 

[Rescued One]

Hi and welcome

Just on the very out, but since we have seen a very few cases over the years, have you checked your gas alarm? Gas poisoning can start with very, very vague and very puzzling symptoms of being off since all piggies are affected.

It is in any case worth checking out as an environmental factor, since all your piggies including your new Bran are affected. Guinea pigs are much smaller with a much a much smaller immune system compared to humans and react before we do.

It is in any case worth ruling out. With all your piggies suddenly not quite right you need to look at potential environmental angles and not necessarily your personal care. That is just our species-specific human hang-up, that we reflect everything onto ourselves first and foremost onto ourselves instead of looking at other factors that can affect all your piggies with the frailest worst.

I agree that an environmental factor may be at play, and while carbon monoxide is a good guess, it might not contribute to coat dullness. Try switching to an organic hay Organic Meadow Hay - Oxbow Animal Health and organic veggies/fruits and additional nutritional support with Herbivore Critical Care Critical Care Food for Herbivores | Shop Oxbow Products Today. The dulling of the coats suggests an ingested toxicant - perhaps a pesticide sprayed on the hay or a lead/arsenic pesticide on fruits/veggies. If you can find a good spring water (check to see if it has been analyzed for heavy metals) try using that instead of tap water. Good luck!

 

[Shadow7]

I don't think it is the lighting. Have there been any changes repairs etc. around the time your old lady fell ill and died? Are you using any potentially perfumed products? Sorry, I can only guess wildly.
Irritants to Avoid Around Guinea Pigs

Shadow was pts due to arthritis.

No repairs. It could possibly be detergent but as I said, I don't really use it for piggy laundry, just whatever might be left over in the washing machine.

 

[Wiebke]

Shadow was pts due to arthritis.

No repairs. It could possibly be detergent but as I said, I don't really use it for piggy laundry, just whatever might be left over in the washing machine.

I have never come across poisoning from detergent in 20 years on this forum although we recommend to use plain non-bio without softener for any fleeces and cosies. Unless the machine is so badly overloaded that the fleeces come out stinking because there is not enough water for a proper wash and rinse, any detergent is rinsed out anyway before the end of the cycle.

I am very sorry for your loss. I have had to send several of my own oldies to the Rainbow Bridge because of arthritis, which is rather common in older piggies and not rarely the default old age cause of death when thanks to your good care and their good genes the organs are all still holding up.

 

[Lemurs]

This is a stab in the dark: when did you last get new water bottles? Mould can build up inside.

 

[Rescued One]

My last thought would be acoustics - any recent wifi upgrades, cell towers, etc in the area. Is their space quiet or are there electronics in the room with them? (Computer monitors and TVs emit harmful radiation from the rear - studies have shown that plants and fruit flies kept behind monitors have much shorter lifespans than controls kept away from monitors). Piggy ears are very sensitive, and can hear outside our own range of hearing.

 

[Rescued One]

Also, what is outside the small window? Any pesticides being sprayed, or auto engines idling? Any industrial emissions (smokestacks) in the neighborhood.