At a loss...

Guinea Slave

Guinea Slave

Adult Guinea Pig
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My girl Mischief lost both her companions the first half of this year. She was very difficult to bond with anyone but after a lot of effort at Wheak and Squeak (Guinea pig adoption centre) she eventually fell in love with a gorgeous boar who adores her.

For three months now they have been together, totally in love and very happy..until today.

I had them outside for the afternoon, in a large run. Kept checking on them..no issues. Went to catch them and the boy refused to go in the carry case with her and there was a lot of teeth chattering..I assumed it was aimed at me.

I then put them in their shed, chaos ensued. Both chattering teeth, she had all her hackles up and then lunged at him. Full on massive fight with the two of them rolling around in a ball. I shouted at them and got them apart and just pulled him out before she lunged again. Amazingly no injuries which is a miracle.

I gave them an hour separately to chill out, tried again and same thing happened, this time I used a brush to separate them and she attacked it!

Age wise she is nearly four years, she does have cystic ovaries but this behaviour is extreme even for that. He is 18 months, very gentle, not the instigator and desperately tried to get away.

I have now divided them in the same cage ( they are in a very large c&c cage. She could not careless, he is distraught. Trying to climb in, bar chewing and very distressed. I have put a towel over the c& c for now to try and calm him.

Has anyone experienced this before in a very strongly bonded pair? If this doesn’t work then I fear she will have to be housed on her own as we have tried so many sows and boars with her. I’d get him some girls but I am just so disappointed as they were so close. Do you think it’s too late now?

Thoughts?
 
I am so sorry you are going through this. I can't advise on the situation but know how horrible a broken bond is from my own experience. Sending you hugs.
 
Hi!

I have had it happen myself a couple of times and we have seen it occasionally on the forum that sows can turn suddenly against a companion, out of the blue, and decide that they are no longer part of their group.

It is always very upsetting, but once a sow takes strongly against another piggy, she is not going to change her mind in the next few years or ever. Tegan, for instance, still teeth chatters at Gethin through the bars every now and then at roaming time, even though he didn't do anything obvious wrong when she emphatically dumped him 2 1/2 years ago (he's been living with her mother and auntie since). Tegan didn't accept other piggies in her own space for over a year since even though she was clearly not happy, either. She has now thankfully changed her mind in her very old age, but it has been a very stony road.

And earlier this year Heini suddenly turned on Hapus with a similar force as you are reporting, so I had to remove her and her sister Llawen asap and do some major group juggling as they were not coping well on their own. Again like your sow, Heini (who has been showing signs of hormonal behaviour in the follwing weeks) is still teeth chattering at the girls through the bars half a year later. :(

HUGS
 
I would try bathing them together, I find terror unites most piggies. Any bonding that I've done which hasn't went smoothly I've bathed them and then put them in there in an area which is neutral befor putting them in the cage. I wonder what happened to cause such a stir! Hope they make up soon, piggies can be so troublesome at times. Of course as Wiebke says they may have just decided it's not love after all.
 
Wiebke said:
Hi!

I have had it happen myself a couple of times and we have seen it occasionally on the forum that sows can turn suddenly against a companion, out of the blue, and decide that they are no longer part of their group.

It is always very upsetting, but once a sow takes strongly against another piggy, she is not going to change her mind in the next few years or ever. Tegan, for instance, still teeth chatters at Gethin through the bars every now and then at roaming time, even though he didn't do anything obvious wrong when she emphatically dumped him 2 1/2 years ago (he's been living with her mother and auntie since). Tegan didn't accept other piggies in her own space for over a year since even though she was clearly not happy, either. She has now thankfully changed her mind in her very old age, but it has been a very stony road.

And earlier this year Heini suddenly turned on Hapus with a similar force as you are reporting, so I had to remove her and her sister Llawen asap and do some major group juggling as they were not coping well on their own. Again like your sow, Heini (who has been showing signs of hormonal behaviour in the follwing weeks) is still teeth chattering at the girls through the bars half a year later. :(

HUGS
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Thank you so much. Not what I wanted to hear but that’s exactly what has happened, she just cannot abide him. Poor boy is so upset, I’ve had to put a towel over the c&c as he was bar chewing so badly. They are now both very calm, I guess tomorrow we’ll know if it’s salvageable or not but I doubt it. Fortunately I have room for another large cage for her to move to and see the others, so that he can have a herd of his own. He suffers desperately from separation anxiety and this is the last thing he needs, it’s so sad.

Really appreciate you sharing your experience thank you.
 
flintstones said:
I would try bathing them together, I find terror unites most piggies. Any bonding that I've done which hasn't went smoothly I've bathed them and then put them in there in an area which is neutral befor putting them in the cage. I wonder what happened to cause such a stir! Hope they make up soon, piggies can be so troublesome at times. Of course as Wiebke says they may have just decided it's not love after all.
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Thank you Flintstones, I just wonder if this would be a short term fix though. I think the aggression is so strong it’s not going to change. They were bathed a few weeks ago and he took upon himself to wash her after bless him.

Who knows what goes on in their minds. It’s most bizarre.. maybe she’s menopausal!
 
I'm sorry your piggies have had a fall out.ive been in a similar situation.Jerry was a lovely relaxed boar,lived with Evie she was quite dominant,evie suddenly bonked Jerry on the head whilst she lunged at him.poor Jerry had a dislocated Jaw,he underwent several vet visits to have his teeth trimmed.i fed him for 9 months ,then he passed away.Evie had to be rehomed due to her not going with any piggie !
 
Guinea Slave said:
Thank you Flintstones, I just wonder if this would be a short term fix though. I think the aggression is so strong it’s not going to change. They were bathed a few weeks ago and he took upon himself to wash her after bless him.

Who knows what goes on in their minds. It’s most bizarre.. maybe she’s menopausal!
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Maybe it is the menopause, or her cysts perhaps it's worth having them checked especially given how aggressive she has become. Given how aggressive she sounds I probably wouldn't risk it. My Bette never took to another pig, I ended up just getting Milo a friend and she lived side by side. I figured she had chosen to be single where as Milo had never made that decision. The pigs I've had that bath time worked where just trying to sort out dominance, rather than sheer hatred.
 
Thank you Flinstones, coincidently I have a vets appointment tomorrow anyway about some lumps he has, I may book him another and get her checked over instead!
 
eileen said:
I'm sorry your piggies have had a fall out.ive been in a similar situation.Jerry was a lovely relaxed boar,lived with Evie she was quite dominant,evie suddenly bonked Jerry on the head whilst she lunged at him.poor Jerry had a dislocated Jaw,he underwent several vet visits to have his teeth trimmed.i fed him for 9 months ,then he passed away.Evie had to be rehomed due to her not going with any piggie !
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Wow that sounds painful! Poor little boy 😟It’s so odd how they just change like that. Fortunately I am all set up for this as I had it with another sow a few years ago (one in my Avatar) but hers was originated by her becoming very ill and then not wanting to go back into a herd. She chose to be on her own in the end so she had a whole suite to herself built into a higher part of the shed where she could see the others, she was very happy there. So I’ll have to unpack it all and start again!
 
So I moved the towel and they can get to each other through the grids. She’s chattering her teeth at him which made him run away..but he came back and they were rubbing noses between the grids.however most of the time there was intense teeth chattering. In the end she got fed up and took herself away for a nap! But n lunging (although with the grids I assume they knew this was completely unviable!)

He’s so stressed that he is bar chewing, I’m going to leave it and see how it goes ..any thoughts on this behaviour or am I doomed!
 
flintstones said:
I would try bathing them together, I find terror unites most piggies. Any bonding that I've done which hasn't went smoothly I've bathed them and then put them in there in an area which is neutral befor putting them in the cage. I wonder what happened to cause such a stir! Hope they make up soon, piggies can be so troublesome at times. Of course as Wiebke says they may have just decided it's not love after all.
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@flintstones : We no longer recommend buddy baths as a bonding help, having found through our forum member experiences over the last several years that they do actually only add extra stress, delay the bonding process and do not affect the ultimate outcome positively.
 
Give them time to settle down and do NOT force them together. It only firms up the negative stance. They won't settle down in just a few hours, like you can't just shrug off a major row with your partner.

Lunging is a very strongly worded 'stay away from me'. Of course a fight/bust-up is extremely upsetting for both parties, even more so for the one that is at the receiving end.
 
Thank you so much, I’ve just left them alone with the occasional visit to make sure nothing untoward has happened. Maybe the nose rubbing between grids is a possible positive? They have loads of room both are in a 4x2 grid cage each with two grids as the divider so they can keep far away or close depending On their view!

I'm just hoping it’s a major row..maybe she called him fat? And they can see it through.
 
Sorry one other question. Do I need to worry about the bar chewing? Concerned for his teeth! I could wrap the bars in towelling material..
 
Guinea Slave said:
Thank you so much, I’ve just left them alone with the occasional visit to make sure nothing untoward has happened. Maybe the nose rubbing between grids is a possible positive? They have loads of room both are in a 4x2 grid cage each with two grids as the divider so they can keep far away or close depending On their view!

I'm just hoping it’s a major row..maybe she called him fat? And they can see it through.
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Just give it time. It is a sudden hormone spike, then it takes a few days to settle down again.

Nose rubbing can also be chinning up through the grids. And how they are next to each other is a whole different kettle of fish from when they are together. :(
 
I have had them both in the house tonight for cuddles. He is desperate to see her but she could not careless. However when I put them back in the shed she was hanging around the divider and ate hay with him almost nose to nose. She did chatter her teeth but not so aggressively and he did not feel the need to scarper! No rumble strutting either. He seems much brighter. They are both now eating normally.

I sincerely hope that with some time they can make amends. I am under no illusion that it’s unlikely but we’ll see. Maybe absence will make the heart grow fonder!
 
Just to add to previous advice. Guinea pigs do not have a menopause, so while it may be hormonal, menopause won't be the cause.
 
Shes been seen by the vet for a check up and whilst she does have ovarian cysts (which we know) they are no worse and she has no signs of hormonal issues (hair loss etc) so the vet does not think this is the issue. She is a bladder piggy on cystease and her bladder is sore, so shes on Metacam pain relief for a few days tp see if this helps....nothing more conclusive. The vet like us was very surprised (she is piggy savvy and has her own herd).
 
Guinea Slave said:
Shes been seen by the vet for a check up and whilst she does have ovarian cysts (which we know) they are no worse and she has no signs of hormonal issues (hair loss etc) so the vet does not think this is the issue. She is a bladder piggy on cystease and her bladder is sore, so shes on Metacam pain relief for a few days tp see if this helps....nothing more conclusive. The vet like us was very surprised (she is piggy savvy and has her own herd).
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We have seen it a few times on here, but not often considering the number of piggies that are passing through this forum and the fact that we often get contacted over problems.
You have just been very unlucky. Sometimes it is a real mystery as to what has caused the fight/fall-out especially when you haven't been there at the time.
 
Well we have some possible progress. I put them on the sofa together in a neutral,place and they were fine, he spent most of the time kissing her and cleaning her face and the fell asleep right in front of her...almost a passive sign to her. She did not react either way really but seemed pleased to be with him with no teeth chattering or rumble strutting. I have kept the divider In Just for tonight but they are eating hay nose to nose by the grid (he is livid not to be with her but I could not take a chance overnight.)

I can work from home tomorrow morning so they will have breakfast together and we’ll go from there. Small steps but it feels like progress. Fingers crossed..
 
Guinea Slave said:
Well we have some possible progress. I put them on the sofa together in a neutral,place and they were fine, he spent most of the time kissing her and cleaning her face and the fell asleep right in front of her...almost a passive sign to her. She did not react either way really but seemed pleased to be with him with no teeth chattering or rumble strutting. I have kept the divider In Just for tonight but they are eating hay nose to nose by the grid (he is livid not to be with her but I could not take a chance overnight.)

I can work from home tomorrow morning so they will have breakfast together and we’ll go from there. Small steps but it feels like progress. Fingers crossed..
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Hopefully it was just something that upset her and led to her losing it, and they can settle down together again. Your boy is obviously very keen to be friends again and could not have made it any clearer!
 
Wiebke said:
Hopefully it was just something that upset her and led to her losing it, and they can settle down together again. Your boy is obviously very keen to be friends again and could not have made it any clearer!
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I do hope so. Bless him he was sooo excited to be back with her, his whole demeanour changed. He’s never been aggressive towards her and he’s been so upset.. and like you say, could not make it clearer how much he adores her. he deserves a bit of luck and fortune in his little life As he’s had a tough start having lost his brother to a Fox, then being up for adoption for a long time on his own ( as he didn’t want another boar for company),he just needs life to deal him a fair hand now....if I see those sad eyes again I’ll be heart broken.
 
Guinea Slave said:
I do hope so. Bless him he was sooo excited to be back with her, his whole demeanour changed. He’s never been aggressive towards her and he’s been so upset.. and like you say, could not make it clearer how much he adores her. he deserves a bit of luck and fortune in his little life As he’s had a tough start having lost his brother to a Fox, then being up for adoption for a long time on his own ( as he didn’t want another boar for company),he just needs life to deal him a fair hand now....if I see those sad eyes again I’ll be heart broken.
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Fingers VERY firmly crossed!
 
So as an update...all was going well with reintroductions in the shed, they shared breaksfast and all was quiet. Until he went into her 'space' then all hell broke loose and she attacked him. Cue teeth chattering and a towel chucked over them. I cant remove this area as its an integral part of the run, and I just think she will find another 'space' anyway. She is being very protective and defensive of herself.

I've got her booked in with John Chitty on Saturday as I am still not convinced she is 100% and this may be a health issue. I am very concerned she has the same issue her two sisters died of this year (yellow fat disease - Steatitis) this is incredibly painful in which case she is protecting her environment and just wants to be on her own. John has all sorts of equipment so I will ask him to scan her ovaries and look for any other lumps we may have missed...you know when you just had a gut feel for something and its telling me she is not right.

I will keep you posted as things progress. Very disappointing and frustrating.
 
piggieminder said:
Sending you hugs. I know what you mean by those feelings, you know your piggys. I hope she is okay. X
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Thank you, its deeply upsetting as he was so so happy last night to be with her and his little face today is desperate. I need to get to the bottom of this issue and then if need be find him some sows as he wont cope very well on his own.
 
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