At what point do you intervene?

[flintstones]

I have been thinking about this a lot recently - I want Patrick to have quality of life but at what cost? We still have 'avenue's' to explore but by exploring these avenues and not getting anywhere I am prolonging his pain and causing him pain.

In all honesty when I look at Patrick I see quality in the cage, when I bring him out and struggle to syringe him fluids, I see a different Patrick he would rather bite me than cooperate. When I open his cage he run's from me and hide's in the corner with his back facing the wall. Every time we go to the vets I open the carrier to a terrified pig I am almost certain he know's where he is going and that yet some more bad things will happen.

Patrick has been at the vets weekly for about 8 weeks and numerous visits before that, he had to have his 2nd dental today but we appear to be in a 'Catch 22' predicament, he's in pain due to his bladder issues, which is lowering food consumption = losing weight and resulting in dental issues. Patrick's original illness was interstitial cystitis which has been ongoing since May this year.

With Bette I was continuously at the vet trying to find what was wrong, I prolonged her suffering in the hope of a diagnosis and treatment. She told me it was time but by this point she had endured a month of suffering, her telling me it was time was her leaving me and at which point I intervened. In hindsight I should have let her go before she began to suffer but without knowing the outcome we can't come to that conclusion.

We euthanize to spare them suffering but we prolong the suffering to make sure we are making the right decision so ultimately our animal suffers because we can't give up without trying everything but at what expense of the animal?

This isn't a woe is me thread or healing vibes for Patrick. I generally want to know people's thoughts on when we should intervene.

 

[ghostbusterbunny]

This isn't a woe is me thread or healing vibes for Patrick.

Well first I'm going to start by saying I am so sorry you're going through this with Patrick and I also hope that he manages to get a break at some point and get his health back. *lots of love and hugs to you both*

I've always been a believer in the 'you know it when it comes' idea when it comes to our pets. I have had a few piggies (and rabbits) now that have told me it's their time and I have let them go. I've also had piggies that have had to go to the vets several times and have quite extensive treatment to try and get them back and they've let me know that enough's enough and it's time to let them go. There have also been piggies that haven't told me but it's me that knows it's time. You can go through weeks of treatment that's not working, or not working as it should and it either creeps up on you or hits you all of a sudden that maybe it's time to be the brave one and admit that it's their time.

It's always down to the individual animal and how well you know them, and they know you. Some pets are more than willing to take the treatment and clearly have the will to keep going - so we keep going. Others initially have the will and then lose it which tells you enough and others unfortunately give up before they have had much of a chance. Whatever the situation is with your individual piggie the signs will pop up and I'd say YOU are the only one to interpret them and make the final decision.

I had one vet tell me that due to a tumour I should have one of my boys PTS a good 6 years ago now. I may have been young(er) but I knew my piggy and I knew he wasn't ready. Happens that I got another 18 months with him until he told me it was his time. What I'm trying to say is; none of us have the answer when it's about someone elses' piggy - only their mum and dad know them well enough to make that decision.

Hindsight is a wonderful (or at least enlightening) thing sometimes but you can't apply past decisions to current situations; all we can try to do is learn something from them for the future.

 

[first_time_piggie_mum]

Oh what an awful situation to be in. Ive been reading the threads about Patrick and his battle, and its moved me to tears a few times thinking about how painful it was to watch Rodney in pain urinating...

I agree with what Gb bunny has posted in that you will know when its his time. People that have strong emotional bonds with their pets, just "know" when they've had enough, and its time to help them along.

For me, it would be about changes in personality to the point where they lose interest in the things that they would normally get excited about. Once they stop eating, and interacting and just want to sleep all the time then I think thats a very strong sign that they have had enough....but again its a very individual situation and as Patricks mother and carer, only you will pick up on those "little signs" that its time.

I wouldnt want to be in your situation, my heart goes out to you and Patrick. x>>

 

[Poppy'sMum]

I agree with first time piggy mum, it must be awful for you both, sorry Ive not got any advice really so feel pretty useless

All I can say is whatever you decide it will be for the best as clearly you have done more than many of us could or are able to have done in the circumstances, so huge ((hugs)) to you & Patrick

 

[sport_billy]

I just want to say how much I feel for your situation Jo, we felt the same with Pitch over last christmas. I understand how you feel. There comes a point were everything you try doesn't work and it becomes almost an impossible fight, you have glimpses of hope that never seem to come to fruitition, it is very disheartening and all the time you can see your piggie in pain and it is truely heartbreaking. We have no way of telling them that the vet visits are there to help them and try and make them well again.

I am a firm believer in knowing 'when it is time to help them on their way' only you truely know your piggie. What I will say is having made the decision to euthanse our piggie, we knew we'd explored every avenue and there was nothing else we could do, her quality of life was disapearing, over 24 hours she was so down, we both knew it was time to let her go.. It was the hardest choice we had to make but was the final act of love we could perform. I really believe 'they tell you' when they have had enough, but only their owner know's when this time is - as you know them the most....

I guess what I'm trying to say is you are an exceptionally good piggie mummy and you always put your piggies wellbeing at the forefront. You would only ever make the correct decision for your boy whatever that may be.

You've fought so hard for Patrick and I really hope something can be found to help him, he's very lucky to have you and you will always do the right thing for him.

*hugs*

 

[Sappho]

I am in this exact situation at the moment with my piggy Bertie as you've seen, so I really do feel for you and your darling Patrick. With Bertie, I am absolutely stuck between not wanting him to suffer, but also wanting to do everything I can to help him. There is this selfish part of me that doesn't want to let him go at all, but it's in constant conflict with the part of me that says it's unfair to let him go on in his suffering.

I never know what to expect with him - one day he is happy and bouncy, running up to the side of the cage to get treats and tickles, and the next he is hunched up and miserable and I'm syringe feeding him and putting ever more antibiotics and pain killer into him. The antibiotics can't be making him feel great either.

We euthanize to spare them suffering but we prolong the suffering to make sure we are making the right decision so ultimately our animal suffers because we can't give up without trying everything but at what expense of the animal?

This totally resonated with me. It is such a difficult decision. We want to do the absolute best for our pigs, and sometimes we don't know if we're doing too much. We always want to push harder for our pigs, because there is always some part of us (for me, anyway) that wants to believe I can do something. Maybe even something miraculous. There's that strange thought that if we keep on trying, maybe something will happen.

This is always a very difficult issue. When it comes down to it though, we have to trust in our own ability to make the right decisions. And if our piggies could understand us, they'd know that we were only doing our best because they mean so much to us, and when we sometimes go too far, it's only because we can't bear the thought of being without them.

 

[Freela]

((HUGS))- I'm sorry you are dealing with this. I've been in similar positions with pets too, and I know how hard it is to know when 'enough is enough.' I do know, however, in instances where I did have to have pets put to sleep, I KNEW that it was the right thing. It was either because they would shortly die anyhow and I wanted to spare them suffering in their last hours, or because the only available treatment was so invasive and the animal so frail that I knew in my heart they would never survive, or because I knew that suffering a chronic disease had left them with no remaining quality of life and that there was no way to make it better for them. I guess for me and my animals, I know it is time when I know, in my heart, that there is nothing more I can do for them other than help them go peacefully without further pain. With the pets I have had to put to sleep, I did have that feeling that I had exhausted everything else and my last act of love towards them would be to help them go.

 

[Lisajazz]

There is no easy answer to this, i'm very sorry to hear that poor Patrick is suffering as he is. You seem to be moving heaven and earth for him and doing your utmost.

I had to put my 20 year old cat to sleep a couple of months ago and it was the hardest thing I have ever had to decide to do. I uhmmed and ahhed until once day my sister came here and looked at her and said OMG she looks very unwell, once she had said that I saw her with fresh eyes and knew it was time but I was so wrapped up with keeping her and looking after her I couldn't see it.

Could be that you need someone unconnected to him to evaluate, someone not wrapped up in his care?

Whatever you decide, I wish you both well.

 

[Sue G]

Jo, I don't have any answers for you, but it breaks my heart you're going through this with dear Patrick. Whatever you decide you will have everyone's support, I know - and my thoughts are with you.

 

[flintstones]

At this moment and time I know the time is not now but I just wonder if I will know when to call it a day and say good bye.

 

[CandyFloss]

I am sorry.... I really dont know.... but one thing I do know is you do everything and much more for your piggies..... so I am confident you know Patrick and whats right for him more than anyone else. You research everything soooo thoroughly (with more than one vet, experienced people and online) one thing can never be questioned is your desire to do right by all your piggies.

Big hugs

xx

 

[doglovinpiggylover]

oh hon i am so sorry you have had to post this thread, you must just feel desperate.

As you know, i had ongoing bladder problems with pepper and the ultimate for me was when his bladder filled and he couldnt empty it and the vet said she could drain it but that it could and probably would happen again...i just knew then that if that happened when i was at work and he suffered all day that it would have killed me so i feel my decision was made.

Other than the constant squeeking when peeing he was fine, his usual cheeky boy, eating, drinking, playing all the same he looked fantastic but alas i think he had been through enough.

Although it totally broke my heart, i knew i had made the right decision.

My heart goes out to you x

 

[Midge&Panda]

It's a very difficult question to answer because as other posters have said only you know your piggie and as much as it hurts us we do know when the time is right, even if we don't want to accept it. This has happened to me only recently but with a cat. I tried my best, everything that me and the vet could do together as a team but in the end with the advice from another level headed vet,( with only the pets interest in mind) I made the decision as to what was best for Jess. A very difficult experience but I knew I did the right thing by her. Hugs to you both x

 

[ts1]

i really feel for you in this situation. when i went through months and months of vet visits and treatment for my 18 year old cat, I told the vet he had to tell me when it was time, I just couldn't make that decision alone. I really couldn't let go and wanted to try everything possible. Maybe your vet could help you decide when and IF it reaches that point?

 

[Little Piggles]

I'm so, so sorry to hear Patrick is poorly

It's such a difficult decision to make and I don't think anyone will know when to say goodbye but you.

Our old dog, Zac had been on heart meds for months before he began to deteriorate in August. He was still happy, still keen to meet people and bark when the door knocker went. Still happy to get in the car and go for a ride. But he was starting to cough so we knew fluid was starting to build up and we knew the time had come when we had to make our goodbyes because that was the moment we knew we couldn't keep him stable and make him better. We acted early to prevent any suffering, rather than stop it. It was the most difficult desicion, but I'm grateful we had the chance to make it and stop any potential stress for him.

Huge hugs to you, hun. You're both in my thoughts x x

 

[Posiesparkles]

I know it is not a 'woe is me' thread but wanted to start by sending you, Patrick and your piggies some hugs.
I truly believe you will know when it is time to let go. When we made the choice to have Rogue pts she made it easy for us - she went from being happy and healthy to dying within 24 hours and we knew she needed help to stop her suffering.
Storm was harder -she, like Patrick, had persistent UTIs. I am in awe of what you do for Patrick and how well you look after him. Storm was being treated with medication and pain relief and for a while all was ok. Then she began losing more weight. Then she got bumblefoot because she was hardly moving, and Misty was looking after her as best she could. Then, her pigsonality started to fade. It was then that we knew she was telling us it was time.

It wasn't easy, I am now in floods just typing this, but in both cases my girls told me it was time to go and I am sure Patrick will do the same. You are so tuned into him I cannot think otherwise.

Thinking of you x