Best hideys to help with dominance

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PatchandSilky

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Hi all, I rehomed 2 boars a month ago. I was told they are brother and 7 months old. One has mites and is losing fur…I am 2 weeks into treating them and have been to the vets. Interesting she said they can mites when stressed, and he is the jumpier out of the 2…so possibly from moving homes etc.

Anyway…the one without mites is constantly (when they’re not asleep or eating it’s happening) rumble strutting at the other, and very often chasing him and trying to hump. The one with mites is submissive and does tell him off, but he doesn’t stop. The behaviour is the same when they are outside in the run.

I’m wondering what the best scenario for their hideys would be, as I want to make sure they can be apart but also the submissive one can get away. At the moment they have one large hidey the width of the cage, and they do both sleep in there (and chase in and out etc). They also have 2 hay trays and often sleep there. My question is should I provide 2 separate ones instead, or would this make it worse?

The vet said it might be worse because one has mites and once this improves they may get better?
 
Yes please do provide more hides - two or more hides are always needed particularly with boars - there should always be as many resources as there are piggies. The way to help minimise the risk of fall outs is making sure boars never need to share anything. The dominant will always get the pick of the best items and it can leave the submissive with nowhere to go if you dont provide enough items.
All hides must have two exits. Any hide with only one door can become a potential area for issues if the dominant traps the submissive inside it - its where fights and injuries can occur.

Make sure the cage is big enough - 180x60cm for two boars is the recommended size.

Rumbling, chasing and mounting are all normal dominance behaviours for boars, particularly as yours are at the height of their teens when you are going to see most of it.
When it becomes a problem is when it it tips over from normal dominance into bullying (I am nots saying that is what is occurring here but it is something to be aware of).

There are two types of mites - hay mites which are itchy but not particularly parasitic so while they can be annoying they are usually easily dealt with. Come in with hay.
Mange mites live in the skin but are kept in check by a functioning immune system. When stressed they can become an issue. They burrow into the skin and are very uncomfortable.
However, normal boar dominance will continue regardless of whether the mites are an active infestation or not. Dominance is how they create and maintain their relationship throughout their entire lives - its simply essential to their functioning relationship .

A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars
Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
 
That’s really helpful, thank you. He has a V shape of missing fur on his back which I believe are from the burrowing type of mites? The dominant one is fine.

I will rectify the hides then…so the lovely cosy looking ones with one door are a no-no for these boys?

Their cage is 160cm so looks like this should be bigger too. We took everything when we rehomed them.
 
One door hides are a definite no no with hormonal boars! You can get fleece ones with 2 doors mine are from fuzzbuts, expensive but beautifully made and last for years despite a lot of washing. I also have wooden ones with 2 doors I found on etsy. With wooden ones you can often cut a second door in them (in the side) if you are clever at that sort of thing.
 
Thank you, I’ll have a look. I was about to buy them a wooden castle type one on Etsy. It has 2 doors but is essentially one large area with a platform above. Will look for similar but where they can have their own one..will also check fuzzbuts! Thank you
 
PatchandSilky said:
That’s really helpful, thank you. He has a V shape of missing fur on his back which I believe are from the burrowing type of mites? The dominant one is fine.

I will rectify the hides then…so the lovely cosy looking ones with one door are a no-no for these boys?

Their cage is 160cm so looks like this should be bigger too. We took everything when we rehomed them.
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Yes, the V shape is indicative of mange mites.
Make sure you are disinfecting the enclosure. I’d recommend you get some F10 which is a vet grade disinfectant.

New Guinea Pig Problems: Sexing & Pregnancy; URI, Ringworm & Parasites; Vet Checks & Customer Rights

Sadly those hides they are not a good idea for hormonal boys. They may be fine when they are much older but for now are not a good idea.

I use wooden hides and bendy log bridges for my boars.

The 160cm cage is considered minimum for a boar pair - so it’s ok but boar pairs, particularly teens, really benefit from a lot of room
 
My boars have always seemed to prefer tunnels to hides. They get both options, but I have found the often like to sleep stretched out under a tunnel or log tunnel 🥰
Always make sure you have extra hides. I once had two boar pairs that used to share a hide 🥰🥰, but that has only ever happened with one pair. My other boys all preferred their own space

Boars definitely get along better with the more space they can have. My current two boys have lots of floor space, and get along just fine by tolerating each other. They are not best buddies, but are equally as happy going about their own business
 
Lots of great advise already given. I would just add not to keep their cage too clean. By this I mean when cleaning them out put some of their used bedding back in or don't clean everything on the same day, so it smells of home. Things being too clean will result in a lot of scent marking which can trigger dominance behaviour.
 
Just to say I’m learning so much on here and I’ve have pigs before! I’ve just read about moving/handling the dominant one first…we have been doing this the other way around. Mainly because the non dominant one is the more confident, so he comes up to us for food, to come out etc whereas dominant boy runs away 😂

Could be something to change though
 
PatchandSilky said:
Just to say I’m learning so much on here and I’ve have pigs before! I’ve just read about moving/handling the dominant one first…we have been doing this the other way around. Mainly because the non dominant one is the more confident, so he comes up to us for food, to come out etc whereas dominant boy runs away 😂

Could be something to change though
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The dominant boy is probably running away because he is also confident! He’s confident enough to tell you he doesn’t want to be handled (most piggies don’t want to be handled to be honest!) - this is actually a good thing, means he is settled in and knows he can trust you.
Often piggies who sit still when being handled are the most scared (not always, its about reading body language as still with relaxed behaviours is obviously different to still and terrified) and can be too afraid to say anything. My boys all struggle when being held - they feel safe enough to tell me they want to be put down.
 
That makes sense. To be fair we’ve only handled them to apply the mites drops, otherwise we put a small box in which we use to transfer them from cage to run. The dominant one will always hide and the no dominant comes straight away.
Their little personalities are so funny, but it’s interesting reading all of this.
I am wondering if the mites are from the stress of moving or because he’s non dominant and constantly being moaned at..I guess we won’t know that though.
 
PatchandSilky said:
That makes sense. To be fair we’ve only handled them to apply the mites drops, otherwise we put a small box in which we use to transfer them from cage to run. The dominant one will always hide and the no dominant comes straight away.
Their little personalities are so funny, but it’s interesting reading all of this.
I am wondering if the mites are from the stress of moving or because he’s non dominant and constantly being moaned at..I guess we won’t know that though.
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Most likely the stress of moving, but you will not know for sure.
Normal dominance is a normal part of piggy hierarchy and life and it in itself will not cause stress….unless it goes too far and tips into bullying (but that is a consistent behaviour which often sees the underpig become withdrawn and depressed, and often chased away from food consequently you see weight loss at each weekly weight check. It is bond breaking. Or, they get fed up with it and fight back resulting in an actual fight which is a broken bond also)
 
Piggies&buns said:
The dominant boy is probably running away because he is also confident! He’s confident enough to tell you he doesn’t want to be handled (most piggies don’t want to be handled to be honest!) - this is actually a good thing, means he is settled in and knows he can trust you.
Often piggies who sit still when being handled are the most scared (not always, its about reading body language as still with relaxed behaviours is obviously different to still and terrified) and can be too afraid to say anything. My boys all struggle when being held - they feel safe enough to tell me they want to be put down.
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I think there are exceptions to the always doing things for the dominant piggy first rule. If you think of being picked up for cuddles as the same as a wild ancestor being picked up by a predator to be eaten, then it makes sense for the lower ranking pig to be picked up first as the dominant pig would have earned the right to the safest places.
Also when it comes to putting them in a new environment, especially a small space like a carrier, that space effectively becomes the territory of the first pig in, so if you put the dominant pig into a carrier first and then the other, you are effectively forcing the lower ranking pig to invade the dominant pig's space. I find with my boys it always works better the other way round.
 
Ah I see, it’s interesting and as you say there are exceptions and it’s about finding what works for them. I do feel sorry for the non dominant one as it is pretty constant that the other one is rumbling or chasing him off, but he does seem happy and is eating etc ok, so I’ll keep a close eye.
 
Hi all. I just wanted to ask if it’s normal for roles to swap? This morning the submissive one is suddenly chasing the other one around and is stopping him from eating. I topped up the hay (2 trays) and as soon as the previous dominant one went in, he was chased off back to the house. I have him hay there and the the other came over and chased him off again.
 
It may be a hormone spike causing him to behave like that.
A dominant piggy will not normally just allow the other to take over - it will usually cause a fight and break the bond.
However if they are coming to arrangements between them and they are both happy then leave them to it.

Keep a close eye if one is constantly being chased away from food ie if it goes on for a prolonged period and one consequently starts to lose weight.

With my two oldest boys (now 5.5 years old) when they were young, one would do the mounting and the other did the rumbling, they both chased each other so it was never really clear who was the dominant (I had an idea who it was but on the face of it it wasn’t obvious to watch them). They got on so well and knew their place so that was all that mattered. They never had any falling out or stopped each other from eating etc.
 
Ok thank you, I’ll keep and eye. So far he’s being relentless, chasing him if he comes out of the bed area at all. The previously dominant one seems to be being submissive and is running away and squeaking. They do still have the one large hidey, I’ve ordered 2 new ones (with 2 exits) which will hopefully be there today/tomorrow. I’m hoping that helps.
 
There are situations where a person can perhaps have misread who was dominant in the first place, perhaps him having mites was causing him to feel under the weather and the one you thought was dominant was actually submissive but was trying his luck previously, and is now being put in his place.
The other situation can be that the submissive has had enough and is now pushing back.

The squeaking and running away does say he is submitting, which is good.
If they are coming to arrangements between them and aren’t actually fighting, then leave them to it but keep an eye.

If it gets too much or you aren’t sure that things are going well, then you can try one temporary separation for a few days and then a neutral territory reintroduction to allow them to decide if their bond is functioning and if they want to be together.
Actual and constant bullying is different to dominance and does sadly and usually mean a bond is not functioning.

If the hidey is causing problems, then you can take it out.
If you’ve got some cardboard boxes around which you can use until the new hides arrive, then put two of those in with holes cut in.

The guides below may help you further in deciding when it is normal and if things are going too far as well as what to do about it.

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?
Bonds In Trouble
 
From my experiences over the years, although it is not the norm, it does sometimes happen that roles are reversed. I think sometimes it is because the original "dominant" piggy has gained that role by default simply because as babies he was a little bit older and bigger (if they weren't litter mates) but was not really an alpha personality, so as they mature the other pig notices this and tries to take over. This can cause some friction for a while before they agree on roles, or as said above the bond breaks down. Other times I don't know what might cause it.

Sometimes roles will be reversed for a little while and then swop back. A few years ago when my piggy King Edward and his RB brother Aethelstan were around 10 months old, this is what happened to them. King Edward had always been top pig, in a calm, confident, non harassing way and they were both happy with this arrangement and had a great bond. Then one morning, out of the blue, it appeared Aethelstan had staged a coup. He was clearly in charge and clearly not very confident in his new role. Wherever King Edward went he followed and cornered him and whenever King Edward was still he stayed close to him, in "on guard" mode, Poor King Edward was not allowed to relax and looked confused. Infact neither of them were relaxed at all. Then a weak or so later one morning I found they had switched back roles and were both soooo much happier again and that's the way they remained. No idea what that was all about 🤣
 
Thanks both. As you say I could have been reading it wrong. They seem to have calmed a little bit, I did see the original dominant one retaliate earlier, so maybe he’s taken back his role. It was just really unusual to see him running away, as he’s always been the chaser!
I think it’s worse for us hearing and seeing it than it is for them, as it looks so mean 😂
 
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