Bickering boars

moodysuzy

moodysuzy

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Hello again,

I posted here a few days ago about adopting a boar trio - we picked them up yesterday.

They are adorable, I already love them. However they are still in the tiny hutch they came with, the c&c cage I ordered won’t arrive until the middle of next week.

The boys just seem to bicker a lot (no surprise given the hutch size, they’re falling over each other!)

We’ve seen lots of rumble strutting from one (Prawn, he is the main trouble maker). There's one clearly submissive one (Bao) what usually starts squealing and running when Prawn starts rumble strutting or butt sniffing. There's been a fair bit of teeth chattering from both Prawn and Bao.
The third (Edgar) just mostly ignores Prawn's strutting but will kind of whip round at him if he gets to close to his butt. Edgar and Bao get on very well.

The main concern is we had them out on the sofa last night and Prawn was just a menace, it ended with him and Bao chattering and Prawn took a swipe at Bao and there was a brief tussle. No blood or anything. We put Prawn back and when we put the other two back later they seemed ok.

I'm hoping once they're in a bigger a cage they'll be much happier. They just don't have their own space at the moment. It's a two floor hutch and Bao is the only one that can get down the ramp, so he escapes down there when Prawn's riled up!

Would love some opinions on their behaviour, and whether we should avoid having all three out at the same time as they (Prawn mostly) seemed way more riled up than when they are together in the cage.

I love them to bits already but I'm very unsure at the moment.

Thanks!
 
This is why trios are very difficult to get to work, plus you are dealing with teenage hormones. There will always be an outsider situation, or an almost constant tension in the relationship. More space won’t necessarily make them be able to live harmoniously. They may able to get away more easily when troubles starts but it won’t change their dynamic. I know we have mentioned it previously, but your 2x4 won’t really provide the kind of space to be able to get very far away from each other. A 2x4 cage was pushing it for my two boars when they were teenagers so I needed to give them even more space.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

I’d be concerned about ‘tussles’ occurring, swipes being taken. It may not have drawn blood but it doesn’t sound like there is stability in the relationship. It sounds like you may end up with bao and Edgar living together if they get on well and prawn having to be separated.

The difficulty with separating them for playtime comes if prawn then feels the need to reassert his dominance when the other two are put back in the cage. This is where problems can occur further. The fact that you need to consider separating them for playtime, again, would ring alarm bells. In a stable relationship, this wouldn’t happen. The rule is that once they are together, they remain together - if one of my boys needs to see a vet, they both go together. I don’t even take them across the garden to their outdoor playpen separately.

I know it all sounds very bleak, but in all honestly, trios are so hard. They can work, but the most important thing that is required to get it to work is the right character compatibility between the boars. Secondly, they need really a lot of space. There are very few people on here who have managed to get a trio to work. @Reenie is one who does have a functioning trio of boars but has said that even hers have their tense times. If my memory serves me, her cage is a 6x5 c&c.
 
Hiya,

Thanks, we are planning on adding the hutch to the set up which will give them the equivalent to somewhere between 2x5 and 2x6 (c&c grids and around 16sq ft). We are also prepared to separate little Prawn if needed.

They do seem more settled when they’re actually in the hutch, but yes there is an underlying tension. It’s so frustrating knowing we have to deal with other people’s mistakes, but even if we have to separate them they’ll always have a loving home.
 
Yes it is and its so sad to still see boars being sold as trios. If separation is needed, prawn can live alongside and still have some interaction through the bars. It’s great that you’d be able to keep him.

Its possibly because their know their place when they are in their hutch - everybody has their territory and it’s a known quantity in that respect. Being outside of the hutch is a whole new set of rules where nobody is sure so they start kicking off!
It’s good you can give more space. A 2x5 is a good size for a pair of boars but do be prepared for it to still not be enough for the trio. As hard as it is to have to separate, the chances are they (bao and Edgar) would be happier for it without living in tension. Prawn is likely to get quite upset by it though so do be prepared for that.

Keep a close eye on them in the meantime and step in if there is any sign of increased trouble. It won’t necessarily be an outright fight (which is obviously a clear cut sign that permanent separation needs to happen immediately), it could be underlying bullying which you need to look out for. Keep a close eye on their weights to ensure everybody is being allowed to eat. Hay is the biggest part of their diet but you can’t gauge intake by eye, hence regular weighing. Weight - Monitoring and Management

I wish the advice and the odds could be more positive but it is purely down to the boys, and if they can’t sort things out between them and want to get along, then there is little you can do about that.

Do keep us posted. I have my fingers crossed for you 🤞
 
And always ensure you handle/deal with Prawn first. You have to respect their hierarchy.
 
moodysuzy said:
Hello again,

I posted here a few days ago about adopting a boar trio - we picked them up yesterday.

They are adorable, I already love them. However they are still in the tiny hutch they came with, the c&c cage I ordered won’t arrive until the middle of next week.

The boys just seem to bicker a lot (no surprise given the hutch size, they’re falling over each other!)

We’ve seen lots of rumble strutting from one (Prawn, he is the main trouble maker). There's one clearly submissive one (Bao) what usually starts squealing and running when Prawn starts rumble strutting or butt sniffing. There's been a fair bit of teeth chattering from both Prawn and Bao.
The third (Edgar) just mostly ignores Prawn's strutting but will kind of whip round at him if he gets to close to his butt. Edgar and Bao get on very well.

The main concern is we had them out on the sofa last night and Prawn was just a menace, it ended with him and Bao chattering and Prawn took a swipe at Bao and there was a brief tussle. No blood or anything. We put Prawn back and when we put the other two back later they seemed ok.

I'm hoping once they're in a bigger a cage they'll be much happier. They just don't have their own space at the moment. It's a two floor hutch and Bao is the only one that can get down the ramp, so he escapes down there when Prawn's riled up!

Would love some opinions on their behaviour, and whether we should avoid having all three out at the same time as they (Prawn mostly) seemed way more riled up than when they are together in the cage.

I love them to bits already but I'm very unsure at the moment.

Thanks!
Click to expand...

Hi!

Boar trios (or trios as such) rarely work unfortunately; when they do, it is great indeed - but the majority will usually fail because the right balance between three personalities is often very difficult to achieve; but key to any successful piggy bond is mutual liking and character compatibility.

Please be aware that all piggies need to re-establish their group in any new territory, which means a renewal of the hierarchy by the means of dominance behaviour, which travels down the ladder from top to bottom.
It is one of the situations where even a well established adult boar bond can fail if there are underlying tensions that come to the fore again. do not give run time (i.e. even more new territory and instability) until the bond has settled down again.

Please take the time to read up on the dominance phase of the bonding process because that is what your boars are currently going through: Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Our boar guide has a chapter on dealing with boar-specific issues, including how to minimise the impact of territorial changes in chapter III. Please take the time to read about all the relevant tricks and tips; you will find them very helpful!
Bonding and Interaction: Illustrated social behaviours and bonding dynamics

Hopefully your boys will settle down together again, especially if they are bonded adults.

PS: We all contribute to the forum for free in our own free time; it is run entirely by voluntary member donations.
It has taken me days to write each of the guides to make sure that they are practical, clear, precise and as complete for people without experience because I can't write out the relevant details every time I answer a post; it would take too much time that I don't always have! Nor is there always an easy two sentence trick or solution to a complex social situation, which is entirely driven by the individual personalities involved. the guides are there to help you learn spot the key behaviours and dynamics, understand what dynamics are going on, how serious they are and to help you make the best of your specific situation by avoiding the most obvious of potential trigger situations.
 
Thank you so much for those guides, I’ve looked through them and they are very helpful!

I’m a bit worried now about when we introduce the new cage, presumably that will trigger more dominance behaviour?

They are all so sweet when we have them out...when Prawn isn’t causing trouble! Is there anything we can do to reduce this behaviour when we have them put on the sofa?
 
moodysuzy said:
Thank you so much for those guides, I’ve looked through them and they are very helpful!

I’m a bit worried now about when we introduce the new cage, presumably that will trigger more dominance behaviour?

They are all so sweet when we have them out...when Prawn isn’t causing trouble! Is there anything we can do to reduce this behaviour when we have them put on the sofa?
Click to expand...

Yes, the new cage is likely to trigger more dominance. Keeping some of their bedding from the old cage, so the new cage smells of them may help.

I don’t think there is really much you can do to reduce it when they are on the sofa, short of just holding them so they don’t have access to each other but that kind of defeats the floor time purpose! Whenever they are together you are going to have the risk of these kinds of arguments between them.
 
moodysuzy said:
Thank you so much for those guides, I’ve looked through them and they are very helpful!

I’m a bit worried now about when we introduce the new cage, presumably that will trigger more dominance behaviour?

They are all so sweet when we have them out...when Prawn isn’t causing trouble! Is there anything we can do to reduce this behaviour when we have them put on the sofa?
Click to expand...

Yes, the new cage will likely trigger more dominance behaviour. Please follow the tips in the boar guide as to how best to make the new territory smell and look as 'theirs' in order to keep the upset as minimal as possible - even if that means that you start with dirty bedding and uncleaned housing and smelly grids...

6 months is unfortunately the trickiest age when the testosterone/hormone output is at a lifetime high. the teenage months still last \nother 8 months after that with some more iffy phases, but this age is very often the make or break point for the majority of boar bonds.
 
Piggies&buns said:
This is why trios are very difficult to get to work, plus you are dealing with teenage hormones. There will always be an outsider situation, or an almost constant tension in the relationship. More space won’t necessarily make them be able to live harmoniously. They may able to get away more easily when troubles starts but it won’t change their dynamic. I know we have mentioned it previously, but your 2x4 won’t really provide the kind of space to be able to get very far away from each other. A 2x4 cage was pushing it for my two boars when they were teenagers so I needed to give them even more space.

Adding More Guinea Pigs Or Merging Pairs – What Works And What Not?

I’d be concerned about ‘tussles’ occurring, swipes being taken. It may not have drawn blood but it doesn’t sound like there is stability in the relationship. It sounds like you may end up with bao and Edgar living together if they get on well and prawn having to be separated.

The difficulty with separating them for playtime comes if prawn then feels the need to reassert his dominance when the other two are put back in the cage. This is where problems can occur further. The fact that you need to consider separating them for playtime, again, would ring alarm bells. In a stable relationship, this wouldn’t happen. The rule is that once they are together, they remain together - if one of my boys needs to see a vet, they both go together. I don’t even take them across the garden to their outdoor playpen separately.

I know it all sounds very bleak, but in all honestly, trios are so hard. They can work, but the most important thing that is required to get it to work is the right character compatibility between the boars. Secondly, they need really a lot of space. There are very few people on here who have managed to get a trio to work. @Reenie is one who does have a functioning trio of boars but has said that even hers have their tense times. If my memory serves me, her cage is a 6x5 c&c.
Click to expand...
It's a 6x3, and yes, my three definitely have their moments and have had to be separated for an hour or so from time to time. I didn't intend having three boars together, and definitely wouldn't recommend it as a first option.
 
I also wouldn't recommend this to anyone haha, we've moved them to their new cage, a 2x4 c&c and with the hutch attached they have the equivalent to a 3x4 c&c...

If anything there worse than when they were in the hutch, timid Bao is now chasing the other two around, who both tolerate it for about 5 seconds before squaring up to him.

We've seen two tussles that had me ready to separate but as no blood was drawn we resisted - this was the first couple of hours in the new cage so figured they need to sort themselves out.

In between the chasing and humping they’re happy to sit and eat and it’s all interspersed with them settling down (mostly separately though) but there’s lots of rumblestrutting and teeth chattering when Bao gets to close to another pig.

Bao seems determined to be dominant but the second one of the others squares up to him he usually relents and runs away...I don’t know what to make if it to be honest.

I have no idea whether to separate out Bao, or whether to try a temporary separation and reintroduction or just leave them to sort themselves out.

I am unbelievably stressed about it!
 
So it’s been almost a week that you’ve had them, and It usually takes around two weeks for things to settle (if it’s going to). If they are ‘ok’, then maybe you could give it another few days/week and see what happens and make a decision towards the end of next week. Obviously if anything happens in the meantime then separate sooner.
My concern is that it doesn’t sound harmonious and that isn’t good for them or you!
Humping, rumbling, chasing are all normal dominance behaviours but if there have already been tussles then I’d be surprised if it will work out between them in the long term. It’s just so difficult to get the right balance of characters when attempting a trio.
 
So difficult to know what to do! Especially with yesterday’s cage expansion, we rubbed soiled bedding everywhere hoping it would help. My main worry is that they’ll hurt each other while we are out at work all day.

We’re gonna give them a good check this evening to look for bites, but they did seem to settle down later last night.

My nerves are just gonna have to
 
All you can really do is observe them and make yourself familiar with what to look for if it goes too far or turns into bullying.
Keep us posted
 
Well...that was short lived. Prawn and Bao just can't tolerate each other, in about 5 minutes they had two tussles. Bao chases Prawn, they square up to each other then they roll around for about 5 seconds. Prawn had a chunk of Bao's hair in his mouth. No blood but I think it's just a matter of time.

Bao is now in the hutch with Prawn and Edgar in the c&c.

Bao and Prawn are STILL rumbling and chattering at each other through the bars.

I don't know if this was the right thing to do, but they already seem a lot calmer.

Is it worth trying a reintroduction? I assume this would be in a neutral area and would be done tomorrow. Poor little guys, I know the odds weren't great but it's still such a shame 😢
 
That is conclusive I’m afraid, they need to be permanently separated. It was the right thing to do.
A wouldn’t bother with a reintroduction now this has happened.
I’m sorry it hasn’t worked out
 
We have them sharing a grid barrier, do you think that's ok?
 
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