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Biscuit's Infection

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Sar

Sar

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Hi,

Had the pigs to the vet today. I noticed Biscuit didn't eat much of her breakfast veg (nothing new, sometimes she can be funny with it), then I realised she'd not ran around much, or done much jumping or anything. Asking my brother to take a look at her for me (to see if he though the same as me) we noticed she was breathing oddly. I wasn't taking any chances, phoned the vet & we were there within 30 mins.

She just has a bit of fluid on her lungs he said & was a bit warm (probably because of the car trip and being squashed next to Fudge in the box) so said was a bit of an infection & we've come away with septrin to give twice daily.

We've tried to give her a dose & she had a little bit as we spread it on some coriander because we couldn't get her to entertain the syringe. She won't eat the other coriander with it on, she probably realises what we've done. I've just read the syringe feeding guide & am gonna try wrapping her in a towel later for another dose. Is it ok to put it on food & which food would be best - cucumber/pepper so it sinks in?
I've got her on my knee at the minute as I'm almost too scared to put her in the pen and she's eating a bit of hay. Is there anything else I can do to make her more comfortable?
 
You need to be getting the dose into her directly via the syringe, to ensure an accurate amount is administered. Get your brother to hold her. Use one of your hands to hold her head and the other to slide the syringe into her mouth. Make sure it is in up to around the '0.2ml' mark, to ensure it doesn't just dribble back out.
 
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Sar said:
Hi,

Had the pigs to the vet today. I noticed Biscuit didn't eat much of her breakfast veg (nothing new, sometimes she can be funny with it), then I realised she'd not ran around much, or done much jumping or anything. Asking my brother to take a look at her for me (to see if he though the same as me) we noticed she was breathing oddly. I wasn't taking any chances, phoned the vet & we were there within 30 mins.

She just has a bit of fluid on her lungs he said & was a bit warm (probably because of the car trip and being squashed next to Fudge in the box) so said was a bit of an infection & we've come away with septrin to give twice daily.

We've tried to give her a dose & she had a little bit as we spread it on some coriander because we couldn't get her to entertain the syringe. She won't eat the other coriander with it on, she probably realises what we've done. I've just read the syringe feeding guide & am gonna try wrapping her in a towel later for another dose. Is it ok to put it on food & which food would be best - cucumber/pepper so it sinks in?
I've got her on my knee at the minute as I'm almost too scared to put her in the pen and she's eating a bit of hay. Is there anything else I can do to make her more comfortable?
Click to expand...

Have you got somebody to help you? You really need to syringe the antibiotic to make sure that it goes all in. The start is always worst. Once piggies realise that they can't get away with it, the vast majority behaves better, especially if they get lots of praise and a treat afterwards.
Here are more tips on how to best syringe:
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/administering-medications.36533/
https://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/threads/complete-syringe-feeding-guide.115359/
I find that it can help me sometimes to prop the piggy up against my chest, facing away, so it has got a lot less room for wiggling. later on, it should hopefully be possible to syringe her while sitting either on the table or your lap. the good news is that piggies forgive after the course of medication is over.
 
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Thanks you two.

I know spreading on coriander wasn't the best idea I've had but I'd only got a sprig of it as a reward for after syringing & think I was clutching at straws a bit!
I've put her in the pen now, she's sat in the primark bag eating hay and she's had a little wander so we're going to try again at 7 when they have tea time veg and use the veg as a reward with lots of praise.

My bro will help. We'll try the wrapped in towel method as she's an escape artist at the best of times. I'm a bit calmer now, think I was too stressed/panicked before.
 
If she doesn't improve please ask the vet about diuretics in addition to the Septrin.
 
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When I had to syringe medicine to one of my pigs we would feed her a bit of food and as she opened her mouth slip the syringe in. Good luck and I hope Biscuit gets well soon!
 
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helen105281 said:
If she doesn't improve please ask the vet about diuretics in addition to the Septrin.
Click to expand...

I never thought of asking if she needed anything else, I was just too stressed and also relieved it was something treatable. I'll make a note.

We managed to get a proper syringe dose in her just after 7pm. Bro held her, using a blanket didn't work as she just wriggled out/turned round no matter how she was wrapped up! I did the syringing and managed to get it in with two attempts. I was just as traumatised as she was but at least we know we can do it now. She sulked on my knee for a bit and then put her in the pen again so could see what she ate. She's had hay, coriander, bit of celery and lettuce and some nuggets. Once she had a wee and poos I put Fudge with her for some company. They've had a potter around & I've just put them back in their cage for bed time.

Hopefully in a couple of days she'll feel better (presuming antibiotics work similarly to how they work on us?)
 
You're right - it will take a couple of days to start to see improvement. Don't worry about getting a firm grip on her to keep her still for her meds - they're not as fragile as they like to make out! You could try to administer her drugs with her on a flat surface (floor will work if you're not confident with her on a table). Get your brother to hold her still from her back end - hold her with both hands from the top, if that makes sense - and then you are free to hold her head to get the syringe in. She won't be traumatised, it is just their natural reaction to fight back.
 
That's good to know, hopefully by Friday she will feel more like her usual self then. My bro held her next to him on the sofa yesterday but this morning I had to hold her on a towel with her her bottom against my chest as she decided she wasn't sitting still! Least I know I can do both now, incase my bro isn't in & mum helps.

Fudge is currently still in the cage as I put Biscuit in the pen so I could keep an eye on her after the meds this morning. Should they be kept apart so Fudge doesn't catch it or are they ok? At some point Fudge will have to come out for floor time and cuddles.
 
Thank you. I thought as much, thought it best to check as this poorly pig thing is all new to me.
 
Biscuit had another vet trip today. Infection is back, she's now on Septrin for 2 weeks and then he wants to see her back. I only noticed yesterday evening that her breathing seemed a little fast and at first put it down to the heat (it reached 27 degrees in the house yesterday & this was with every window open, the fan on and ice packs in the cage). You can imagine how worried I was about both of them (so much so that I got up to check on them at 2.30 am and 5.30am) but thankfully it cooled off.

I feel so bad that I missed this as I've been watching them more closely than ever for the last couple of weeks. I keep thinking that I've done something wrong somewhere but she seemed her usual self once her last lot of antibiotics finished, running around, not being too cuddly, trying to escape, popcornig for England & she even wheeked for the first time (she usually talks by chortling along) so I had no reason to suspect anything was still wrong. I'm so glad that I took her back to the vet & didn't just pass it off as the heat. Plus, she hasn't lost her appetite or stopped running round like last time, she has been doing a bit less running which I put down to the weather.

On the plus side, it took about three minutes to get her medicine into her! She had a tiny cuddle and off she went back to the cage, where she promptly started bar chewing and chortling for her tea. The weather has changed a bit too, its been cloudy since mid afternoon and we've had a lovely breeze since, the temperature on top of the cage has maintained at 23 degrees so I think it will just be one ice pack for bed.
 
So Biscuit has been back to the vets for her follow up today after two weeks (and a couple of extra days of Septrin as opted to go today & see the same vet) and I don't really know what to think.

There's still something there, something not quite right. I thought as much as sometimes she still sounds a little wheezy & was making a snoring/grunting noise on Friday. The vet said himself that she's a lot brighter, has put on weight & as she's eating and toileting/acting ok, seems happy in herself generally. He even took her to see one of his colleagues in the back (another vet we've seen before) and she said the same, there's something. I had to smile though when the vet came back with her, two hands clutching her to his body and Biscuit's legs going everywhere - he said she'd made an attemped escape.

We had options & we opted to monitor her for a week or so & if she gets any worse go back and she can go back on antibiotics. He thinks its unlikely to be an infection now & maybe a piece of hay stuck. He did mention xrays etc but at this point I was crying & had my brother telling me she would be ok and it was my call. I think what made it worse was that I was worried anyway, and as we were in the waiting room a couple were just leaving, very upset as sadly they'd just had their dog put to sleep.

You wouldn't think there is anything wrong with her to see her. She's currently running round the pen, moving their cardboard cave around & has caused Fudge to hide in the pigloo as everytime she gets comfy, it moves. Not quite sure why I'm writing, I think I just needed to offload & thought this might be the best place.
 
Has your vet checked her heart? Grunting and fast breathing can be a sign of the heart working too hard. It can be a build up of fluid around the heart, for example.
I'm glad she seems to be feeling well in herself :) x
 
@Critter I'm not sure but he did have a good listen to her. Heart problems in pigs are not something I'm familiar with so will research, although it's probably something I should have asked - heart, lungs, all connected to breathing.

Bro has been trying to cheer me up saying she makes funny noises now she's found her wheek (her wheek is slighty strange it's normal and then goes off at the end as though she's got no sound left) but I think he's clutching at straws.

I'll keep a very close eye on her over the next couple of days and will take her back to the vet at the end of the week if still concerned, or sooner if needs be. The grunting type noise I heard the other day I haven't heard since but she was doing a bubbling type one before. I don't know whether I heard it properly or because I'm listening out for any odd sounds, I'm just imagining things. It's just making me all emotional wondering if there's something I could have done differenly or noticed sooner. I can't bear the thought of anything happening to her.
 
You're doing your best, and that's all you can do! Don't regret not researching this or that, because unless you know, you wouldn't think to look it up....
I had a heart piggy, and she grunted sometimes, not often, and was sneezy when she ate at times, and she was fine otherwise. Full of popcorns, full of energy. I had no idea she had a problem. Now after her passing I have read about other heart piggies and I only know now that some signs were there, albeit few and far between.... I missed them, thinking she was just occasionally sneezy, but otherwise fit and well. She didn't have a cold or a chest infection, she was just a bit sneezy and honked/hooted/grunted on odd occasions... For ages after her passing I thought she had been a heart piggy with no symptems and have described her as such on here even, as I really thought that was the case. To me at the time there was no warning..... I regret not knowing the signs and have done some reading and put two and two together since and now I think perhaps the signs were there!...
However, it doesn't automatically means your piggy has a heart condition too, it's just another avenue to explore....
There are tests that can be done. Listening can sometimes pick up a murmer or a struggling heart, otherwise ultrasound scans can show a defect and some practices can perform this procedure without having to sedate the pig.
Depending on the problem diuretics can help to relieve pressure of fluid-build up, and if this is the issue she could well have a normal life, but on regular meds.
 
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sounds respiratory to me. possibly heart but respiratory pets certainly struggle more in the heat. they usually require a long course of antibiotics (longer than she's had), plus metacam for any nasal inflammation aswell. so i don't agree particularly that an infection isn't likely now. it's a very short course in terms of respiratory problems anyway. they're a pain to get under control sometimes though but can be well managed once you have and there are so many different treatments and combinations of treatments to try :)

having a piece of hay stuck is quite unlikely and our vet doesn't see that very often, although he said it's great when they find that is the problem because once it's removed and treatment is given, the animal usually recovers completely. but it's a long shot i think.

you could ask and maybe trial metacam to see if this improves anything. if it does then you know it's more inflammation based.

if they suspect heart then diuretics as others have mentioned.

perhaps see a more specialist vets, see what they think? then decide where to go from there :)
 
@Critter I'm definitely going to research in the morning (when hopefully I'm a bit less emotional!), make any notes and symptoms and see where I go from there. At least then I will feel as though I'm doing something.

@biscandmatt how long a course of antibiotics would she need, at a guess (if possible, I know it's not a one size fits all)? I still don't know what to think, I just want me completely crazy Biscuit pig back instead of this 95% crazy pig.

I have no problem with the vets I see and there isn't any vets on the locator where I could get (although I will check again) as I don't drive. When I was phoning local vets I chose these becasue they were the closest, they were recommended by a friend who takes her rabbit there, and the receptionist told me a local rescue place for guinea's uses them too. That said maybe there is a vet there who specialises more in pigs, I'll have to find out.
I think I was a bit overwhelmed today, and crying certainly didn't help me! Do you think it would have been better if I'd have come away with more antibiotics? She's been fine tonight, no noises (that I've heard anyway) and was wheeking for her tea. I was obviously too slow at chopping veg as came back to see her & Fudge having a 'who can make the loudest noise on the bars' competition. She's had her tea, loads of hay, lots of cuddles and kisses, licked and nibbled my brother and is getting fed up of me checking on her. Compared to how she was in June when we went to the vets she's nearly her usual self.

Everything seems to be happening at once, I'm due to start a new job (hopefully if all the paperwork gets done anytime soon) so will be out possibly five days a week, depending on what hours I get so that's playing on my mind as I've been home most of the time due to losing my other job and family stuff so had all this time to build up relationships with the pigs. I'm away for a weekend at the start of August & then for 8 days in September, I was worried sick about leaving them before all of this so I'm not dealing well with it at the minute.

Thank you both for your replies, I appreciate it. Time for me to head to bed, try to sleep & come up with a plan tomorrow.
 
I hope you have a good rest, you certainly deserve it. It's a minefield at times and everything goes round your head with what if's. It's stressful and I know suggestions from forums can also be scary with planting more what if's in the mind....but they can also help when it comes to chatting to the vet about possibilities, and at least you can be happier when the vet looks into them and/or rules them out from what their own investigations tell them. At least then you can be sure everything has been considered.
I think it's a good sign that your local rescue uses the same vets, they must surely have plenty of experience as to whether or not they are effective! As you say you are happy with them, and your own feelings and vibes about a place can say a lot too.
I hope you can relax and know that everything is being done right now that can be done, and next time you talk with them they can discuss any new information that you have. Trusting that the vet will make the right decision for your piggy goes a long way towards relieving some of the stress I think, but it's still a big worry, I know.
Sounds like it's all happening at once for you. I hope things calm down very soon for you.

Good luck in the new job :)
 
Sar said:
@Critter I'm definitely going to research in the morning (when hopefully I'm a bit less emotional!), make any notes and symptoms and see where I go from there. At least then I will feel as though I'm doing something.

@biscandmatt how long a course of antibiotics would she need, at a guess (if possible, I know it's not a one size fits all)? I still don't know what to think, I just want me completely crazy Biscuit pig back instead of this 95% crazy pig.

I have no problem with the vets I see and there isn't any vets on the locator where I could get (although I will check again) as I don't drive. When I was phoning local vets I chose these becasue they were the closest, they were recommended by a friend who takes her rabbit there, and the receptionist told me a local rescue place for guinea's uses them too. That said maybe there is a vet there who specialises more in pigs, I'll have to find out.
I think I was a bit overwhelmed today, and crying certainly didn't help me! Do you think it would have been better if I'd have come away with more antibiotics? She's been fine tonight, no noises (that I've heard anyway) and was wheeking for her tea. I was obviously too slow at chopping veg as came back to see her & Fudge having a 'who can make the loudest noise on the bars' competition. She's had her tea, loads of hay, lots of cuddles and kisses, licked and nibbled my brother and is getting fed up of me checking on her. Compared to how she was in June when we went to the vets she's nearly her usual self.

Everything seems to be happening at once, I'm due to start a new job (hopefully if all the paperwork gets done anytime soon) so will be out possibly five days a week, depending on what hours I get so that's playing on my mind as I've been home most of the time due to losing my other job and family stuff so had all this time to build up relationships with the pigs. I'm away for a weekend at the start of August & then for 8 days in September, I was worried sick about leaving them before all of this so I'm not dealing well with it at the minute.

Thank you both for your replies, I appreciate it. Time for me to head to bed, try to sleep & come up with a plan tomorrow.
Click to expand...

it really is hard to say with course lengths with respiratory issues, it's a complex issue though so i would always see a more specialist vet to make sure you get it treated properly as soon as possible. i say this from experience having two respiratory rabbits.

definitely ask your vets about the more specialist vet and this link may help you find a more experienced vet closer to you https://findavet.rcvs.org.uk/find-a-vet/ - although getting your vet now to consult with them would also be a good option aswell :)

i seem to keep worrying people at the moment. it's not my intention. just probably comes from my own experience and wishing someone had told me sooner. by the time i went to a specialist vet with my two, it took us three months for one, and eighteen months for the other, to try and sort everything out. (previous regular vet would give short course of baytril and nothing else) so i think i worry when i read other people getting the same treatment just incase the same happens to them. but i am sorry if i added to your worry x
 
:)
Critter said:
I hope you have a good rest, you certainly deserve it. It's a minefield at times and everything goes round your head with what if's. It's stressful and I know suggestions from forums can also be scary with planting more what if's in the mind....but they can also help when it comes to chatting to the vet about possibilities, and at least you can be happier when the vet looks into them and/or rules them out from what their own investigations tell them. At least then you can be sure everything has been considered.
I think it's a good sign that your local rescue uses the same vets, they must surely have plenty of experience as to whether or not they are effective! As you say you are happy with them, and your own feelings and vibes about a place can say a lot too.
I hope you can relax and know that everything is being done right now that can be done, and next time you talk with them they can discuss any new information that you have. Trusting that the vet will make the right decision for your piggy goes a long way towards relieving some of the stress I think, but it's still a big worry, I know.
Sounds like it's all happening at once for you. I hope things calm down very soon for you.

Good luck in the new job :)
Click to expand...

I've made a list of queries to ask when we go back. Including heart problems, xrays (as the vet mentioned them but I don't know how they're done on pigs) and some one further up the list posted about diuretics. It was something I made a mental note of before and forgot so it's now on the list. There's another one about long term antibiotic use, different antibiotics, pro biotics, pain meds or anything for imflammation. I've just noted down anything I can think of to go through later on with my bro. I'd like his opinion because he's coming to the vets with me and may have his own questions to add on. I'm going to chicken out and get my bro to phone up and see which vet person the rescue uses, they may be more specialised if they see lots of them? He's much better at me at asking those sorts of questions!

And thank you, I'm still waiting for the postperson to bring me the letter I need so can arrange a meeting with new manager to get everything sorted and a start date. I can't wait to start and am going to get the pigs something nice with my first wage, I now just have to decide what!

@biscandmatt thanks for the link. Unfortunately there are no specialised places round where I live. The nearest ones are in the next big towns/cities so about 40 minutes+ in a car or buses/trains away (I so wish I had normal eyesight!). I would do this of course, it would just take time to work out travel arrangements and costs, plus there are other vets here I could try first.

Honestly you didn't worry me any more than I'm worried anyway. It's nice to come and write out my thoughts and feelings and know there are people that understand and can suggest things, it's helping a great deal. Biscuit is having a good morning, not had a strange noise from her for about 5 hours now and she jumped out the cage like usual, demanded her breakfast within 10 seconds and is currently using the Primark bag as a toilet! :)
 
Ended up at the vets this afternoon. Wasn't happy with how Biscuit seemed to be going downhill in front of my eyes and for my own sanity thought it best to get her checked over. We saw the head vet (well, its his name on the door so I assume he's boss) who was lovely, gave her a thorough check. Biscuit proved how feisty she can get when she tried to hit his hand away with her head when he attempted to touch it, wriggled a lot, dropped some poos everywhere and generally attempted to escape everytime she wasn't pinned down. He checked her throat (she tried to chew the instrument) and said that there is imflammation there and spent a good deal of time checking her with the stethoscope. We have two new meds, one an antibiotic and one for imflammation and to go back in two weeks. She's had a dose of both when we came in but from tomorrow we'll give it her in the mornings (she didn't take it as well as she'd been taking Septrin so that will be fun!). She's had a potter about, wheeked for her tea veg, eaten the lot and had hay so I'm a little more relaxed than I was last night.

I can't fault the other vet I saw yesterday, he did do thorough checks when we first went in June and gave us Septrin. When we went back again she had another good check with him explaining it can be hard to get the length of treatment right and he did do a follow up, where she was pretty much back to normal. I suppose if I'd have kept my head yesterday I would have asked him about her throat, asked him to look, investigate and talk about treatment, as well as discuss the other available options and maybe would have been treating her a day sooner. These things happen I guess and hopefully we're on the right track now.
 
She's on Qunioflox and then has Meloxoral for the imflammation. Doesn't really like either of them!
 
We lost Biscuit in the early hours of this morning. I came in the rom at 6am while eating my breakfast to say hello to them and there she was... I knew instantly. Shouted for my bro whilst crying and he confirmed. She had further antibiotics for the imflamation, as well as Bisolvon powder and then a steroid injection at the end of last month and the vet said one lung was taking in more air than the other. She was doing so well, her weight was going up slowly, she still had her appetite, everything was normal and she was more active so it was a massive shock this morning.

I somehow dragged myself off to work this morning, not sure how I survived the day as several times I found myself sheedding a tear in a corner. Mum and bro also upset, for a little pig she had a big impact. Fudge seems fine, everything as normal and I've had mum check her all the time. She made me cry at tea time as she wheeked and started climbing up as normal which was so hard to see as Biscuit should have been next to her. This weekend was going to be Halloween pictures weekend with a pumpkin and then Biscuit would have been 1 next weekend (going off info that she was 8-12 weeks when we got her) and I had plans to make her a cake out of veg like I did Fudge. Last week I ordered them a piggy pod and a snuggle sack each, I've been wanting one for months but decided to wait and it was going to be their Christmas presents so I'm so sad.

I miss my crazy little parrot pig so much already
 
I'm sorry to read this, what a shock for you. Sometimes they go without any warning.
Huge hugs to you xx
 
Thank you @helen105281 @Critter

I'm completely devastated about it. There were so many times I thought I was losing her in June/July when she was first poorly so to have lost her when she seemed to be doing so well is hard. She couldn't have been loved any more and she was so spoilt, I'd like to think that we gave her a lovely life.

My bro made enquiries with the local rescue, we passed the home visit and Fudge has already met her possible new friend, a 2.5 year old pig. Apparently it all went well (I was at work and don't think I could have dealt with it anyway) and there is a chance they may bring the pig to visit on Friday and she stay the night. My gut feeling is no because for me it's too soon but Fudge needs a new friend because she's never been on her own, she's always had Biscuit and her needs come first.
 
It is really hard and the new pig will never replace Biscuit but hopefully in time will develop her own special relationship with you. Seeing Fudge happy will help.
 
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