Bladder and teeth issues - I need your help to save my piggy

[guinea777]

Hello,
I'll try to give as much information to you guys on my piggy's condition so we can help him together.

I have a male guinea pig who should be 4 years old next month.
During the last month he started to stop eating some of his favorite veggies such as lettuce but he kept eating others like cucumbers and carrots so I didn't assume something's wrong.
Around 2 weeks ago he stopped eating most of his ordinary veggies, whenever we handed a piece of food near his mouth he would look away. He only attempted to eat from his dry food. Also, he didn't seem to be peeing as his wood pellets looked pretty dry. He started to drink a lot less and started losing a lot of weight as a result. He also became a lot less active, seemed to be sleeping inside his tunnel a lot more than usual.
After seeing these worrying signs we took him to the vet 2 days ago with the hopes that it's not too late to save him. This was the first out of two visits we had at the vet with him this week.
The vet checked him, mentioned concerns about his weight and empty bladder. He didn't diagnose any common disease and he said that it might be a chronic kidney problem. He injected my piggy with water and vitamins and clipped his front teeth as they became too long to close the mouth completely. He also prescribed antibiotics (called Aneoflux or something like that) that I need to mix with the piggy's water for 10 days. He said that if the piggy doesn't pee in 2 days than we have to bring him back.
After returning from the vet the piggy felt more energetic and started drinking on his own again, begged more for food from me but unfortunately every vegetable I gave him he couldn't close his mouth and bite all the way and the vegetables would drop out of his mouth. I'm afraid the teeth clipping worsened the situation. I started syringe feeding him with a few veggie blender mix and water.
A day after (Today) things seemed to go bad again. My piggy stopped begging for food again and didn't drink water all night. He still can't chew on his own and only attempts to eat a few of his dry food. We took him to the vet again and this time around the visit felt less optimistic. The vet checked him again, still didn't feel content in his bladder. The vet attempted to clean stones from his pee tunnel (not sure how to say in English) and after a strong pressure a big stone came out and with it white substance that I don't know what is. As a result of the big pressure my piggy fainted for a few seconds and came back after getting oxygen, that was scary to see and I thought he was gonna die right there. The vet now suspects that my piggy's bladder exploded and it can't hold any pee. He injected him again with water and vitamins and told me to continue feeding him with a syringe so he can become stronger to a potential surgery and also that I should prepare for the worst . He also said that his back teeth are also too long and he can't close his mouth. The vet didn't charge for the second visit and also didn't want to x-ray him or do anything that my piggy might not wake up from.

I want to ask you guys what can I do to improve my piggy's chances of surviving? Do you think he can survive surgery? Do you think he has a chance after that second vet visit? Is he too old to survive a thing like this?

Thanks to anyone who has patience to help. These are critical days for my piggy.

 

[Stuart74]

Hes ok age wise for surgery and make sure you keep syringe feeding him
I lost my 2 boys this year due to malcullusion and there back teeth over grew and fronts where at a angle wear wise due too it..
Zach my last one lost half his body weight and was getting food stuck in his throat.
Hopefully your one will be ok although i will warn you that sometimes the spurs at the back growing over the teeth can re appear..
Mine was just over 2 when they died and have new ones now but i wont forget them

 

[Wiebke]

Hello,
I'll try to give as much information to you guys on my piggy's condition so we can help him together.

I have a male guinea pig who should be 4 years old next month.
During the last month he started to stop eating some of his favorite veggies such as lettuce but he kept eating others like cucumbers and carrots so I didn't assume something's wrong.
Around 2 weeks ago he stopped eating most of his ordinary veggies, whenever we handed a piece of food near his mouth he would look away. He only attempted to eat from his dry food. Also, he didn't seem to be peeing as his wood pellets looked pretty dry. He started to drink a lot less and started losing a lot of weight as a result. He also became a lot less active, seemed to be sleeping inside his tunnel a lot more than usual.
After seeing these worrying signs we took him to the vet 2 days ago with the hopes that it's not too late to save him. This was the first out of two visits we had at the vet with him this week.
The vet checked him, mentioned concerns about his weight and empty bladder. He didn't diagnose any common disease and he said that it might be a chronic kidney problem. He injected my piggy with water and vitamins and clipped his front teeth as they became too long to close the mouth completely. He also prescribed antibiotics (called Aneoflux or something like that) that I need to mix with the piggy's water for 10 days. He said that if the piggy doesn't pee in 2 days than we have to bring him back.
After returning from the vet the piggy felt more energetic and started drinking on his own again, begged more for food from me but unfortunately every vegetable I gave him he couldn't close his mouth and bite all the way and the vegetables would drop out of his mouth. I'm afraid the teeth clipping worsened the situation. I started syringe feeding him with a few veggie blender mix and water.
A day after (Today) things seemed to go bad again. My piggy stopped begging for food again and didn't drink water all night. He still can't chew on his own and only attempts to eat a few of his dry food. We took him to the vet again and this time around the visit felt less optimistic. The vet checked him again, still didn't feel content in his bladder. The vet attempted to clean stones from his pee tunnel (not sure how to say in English) and after a strong pressure a big stone came out and with it white substance that I don't know what is. As a result of the big pressure my piggy fainted for a few seconds and came back after getting oxygen, that was scary to see and I thought he was gonna die right there. The vet now suspects that my piggy's bladder exploded and it can't hold any pee. He injected him again with water and vitamins and told me to continue feeding him with a syringe so he can become stronger to a potential surgery and also that I should prepare for the worst . He also said that his back teeth are also too long and he can't close his mouth. The vet didn't charge for the second visit and also didn't want to x-ray him or do anything that my piggy might not wake up from.

I want to ask you guys what can I do to improve my piggy's chances of surviving? Do you think he can survive surgery? Do you think he has a chance after that second vet visit? Is he too old to survive a thing like this?

Thanks to anyone who has patience to help. These are critical days for my piggy.

Hi and welcome

I am very sorry for problems and for your bad experience.

Which country are you in and how piggy savvy is your vet?
He doesn't sound very knowledgeable at all, and what he did must have been excruciatingly painful for your poor piggy!
No wonder he fainted! Did your vet at least give you some painkiller for your poorly boy?

It sounds like your piggy's bladder is very overladen with calcium and bladder sludge; milky urine is the normal way of the body to excrete any excess urine but your white stuff could likely have been sludge (small pieces that have not yet combined to a stone).
A bladder stone that fetches up in the urethra (your 'pee pipe') can block the flow of urine; if the urine vbacks up into the kidneys, then this is usually fatal within a few days. Boars have an awkward wider area with a bend ('inglenook') in their urethra where stones get often stuck. This requires an operation and not pushing a stone out without regard to the damage done to bladder and urethra.

As long as the overgrown back teeth are not dealt with (but preferably NOT by that vet!), your boy is unable to eat; the more the teeth overgrow, the less so. It is the premolar and molar teeth at the back of the mouth that grind down any food and are kept ground down by silica in a hay based diet (hay should make over 80% of what a guinea pig eats in a day). The self-sharpening incisors at the front are there to pick up and cut food; they only overgrow if the back teeth are no longer doing their job and are growing spurs which trap the tongue.

Your piggy is no longer quite young, but for a vet experienced with small rodents operations not too old for an operation.
If you do not have access to a decent vet, then you have to weigh up the risk of your piggy not waking up against a painful, slow, but certain death, I am afraid.
In the second case, you have to basically chose between risking the operation or having your poorly boy euthanised to spare him any unncessary suffering. It is sadly a very tough choice for you, and not one that any of us ever wishes to make.
I have had to choose between a make or break operation and certain death/euthanasia a few times and feel for your dilemma. Please put your boy's comfort and wellbeing before any other consideration. Guinea pigs don't have a concept for a long life, but they feel pain no less than us.
PS: My 5 1/2 years old Mererid has been spayed (the female organs taken out) today and has come through her operation without problems but I am lucky to have access to a good vet. My oldest piggy operated on was nearly 7 years old and did recover well. I have however also lost young piggies with underlying problems (heart) in emergency operations.

Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

 

[guinea777]

I live in Israel.
The vet I went to is a 20 minute drive from where I live and I got referred to him by a local vet since they don't treat exotic pets in my area (The local vet told me she worked with him before and he treats exotic pets. It's also listed in his website). The vet I went to seems nice and knowledgeable but it did look like he hurt my piggy. He was holding him with one hand and with the other squeezed the piggy's pin and that's when the stone went out with the white substance and he fainted.
I did some research and found out that 35 minute drive from me is a renowned vet who specilalizes in exotic pets. I'm not sure whether to take my piggy there and start treatment from scratch, or continue with the first vet.
I think I saw a little pee inside my piggy's cage right now, tell me if it's the case. (I attached a picture). Is that a good sign?
I also saw my piggy "beating like a heart" today, in other words, his bottom-back body went back and forth in the rhythm of heart beating. What should I make out of it?
Should I go to the second vet even though it's a long and tiring drive for an ill piggy? How can I know if a vet is treating my piggy the correct way or not? What if the first vet is right and using anesthesia will kill my piggy in its current form?

 

[Freela]

It's so hard when you can't get to a vet who has a lot of guinea pig experience. There are two issues here... his bladder and his teeth. Without an attempt made to correct the rear molars (not just the incisors at the front), your pig is not going to be able to eat normally, if at all. Guinea pigs have teeth which constantly grow and are worn down by chewing... when molars overgrow they can curve around, trapping the tongue or cutting the side of the mouth, making it impossible to eat. This situation can be chronic and require repeat dental work for some pigs. The second issue, which sounds like stones/bladder sludge. This can also be really painful for your pig, similar to kidney stones in human. These conditions may be unrelated or may be linked (i.e. pain from the bladder may have initially inhibited his appetite and let to him not wanting to eat, which could have compounded the problem with his teeth.)

Unfortunately, there is really nothing you can do in terms of home treatment of these problems (other than reading up on syringe-feeding and attempting to get food into him that way to keep his system going.) He will need dentistry to correct his bite and he will need, at the very least, pain relief for his bladder stones, even to buy him enough time to get stronger for surgery. It's always hard to weight the risks and benefits of a risky operation, but your choices are limited- he won't be able to survive with these conditions not being treated for very long, so the choice is basically a risky operation versus a guaranteed bad outcome.

Personally, I would try the vet you haven't tried yet... I'm suspicious that, if the vet you saw earlier did not bother with the molars, that he doesn't know enough about guinea pig dentistry to be able to help. Trimming the front incisors does not solve the problem, and not checking the back teeth is suspicious to me of a vet who is doing his best but just doesn't know enough.

Best wishes and I'm sorry you're in such a tough spot.

 

[Lady Kelly]

Such a hard position you are in but as you are not happy with the vet you saw this time I would say a second opinion with the other exotics specialist would be a good choice. Even if you get exactly the same information at least it will reassure you in what's the best you can do for your piggy. Poor boy has been through a lot and I hope he recovers

 

[Claire W]

Oh bless him. He has been through an ordeal lif he was my piggy, I would definitely seek a second opinion from the other exotic vet. Your boy will be fine to travel the 35 minutes.

I had a piggy once with dental problems, sadly it didn’t end well but my vet had him in the very next day to burr his molars. He was just two years old.

I also wouldn’t be happy with the procedure that your vet carried out whilst your poor was awake! He would have been in a lot of pain

Please do see the other vet even if the diagnosis is the same. My cat had a blocked bladder where the urine back in to the kidneys and it was sadly fatal

You really can’t afford to wait

 

[guinea777]

Guys thank you for your help.
Unfortunately my piggy did not survive the day.
I woke up early today to see how he is and he was still alive. I came back 2 hours later to find him unconcious and hard like as stone not responding. My father told me during the last hour he struggled breathing and was laying on his side. I think the way he was shaking like a heart beat was a big warning sign but it was late at night so there was nothing I could do.
We went to bury him in a shoe box to give him one last respect.

Is there a chance there was something to do at this point? I dread the thought we might buried him alive, but he wasn't responding and was hard like a stone.

 

[guinea777]

If I syringed fed him right there and then when I saw him standing first thing in the morning, could it save him or was he done for good?

 

[Wiebke]

BIG HUGS

I am very sorry but your poor boy had too much against him and the rather rough treatment was too much in his already frail state when everything went wrong all at once.
It can also be that the urine has backed up into his kidneys previous to removing the stone, which is fatal. You have done all you could (seen two vets) and have not failed him that respect.

Please be aware that feelings of guilt and soul-searching are a normal part of the onset of the grieving process. This is usually worse if the circumstances have been somewhat traumatic.

Please take the time to read our grieving guide; it will hopefully help you over the coming days and weeks to come to terms with what has happened. You cannot hurry that on; you are a loving owner and will have to grieve as much as you love - they are the two sides of the same coin. But without the ability to love and to grieve we would be very shallow creatures indeed!
Human Bereavement: Grieving, Coping and Support Links for Guinea Pig Owners and Their Children

if your boy has a companion, here is is what you can do for him: Looking After a Bereaved Guinea Pig

 

[Lady Kelly]

Please don't torture yourself with the what it's. None of us could say for definite yes or no but considering he went so quickly I would say something else happened. Either his organs were already shutting down when you saw him or something sudden like heart failure happened after that. Part of the grieving process is guilt and wondering what if but please be kind to yourself. You did everything you could for him

 

[guinea777]

Thank you guys it helps to release here.
Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to see the second, more specialized vet, but rather I saw the same vet twice.
During the second visit he told me to wait until Thursday, try to feed him so he get stronger and then bring him back for surgery and staying the night there.
I'm afraid he didn't get the treatment he deserved. During the first visit I came back home without full diagnosis, all I knew is that he might have a chronic disease in the kidneys but didn't know why and how. Both visits my piggy got injected with fluids and got his pee hole pinched until a stone came out. The second time the stone was bigger and the burst of white stuff came out. I'm afraid that's why he was expanding and shrinking in his lower body during the night.
I feel bad for returning to my business and not feeding him this morning when I had the chance.

 

[Lady Kelly]

Thank you guys it helps to release here.
Unfortunately I didn't get the chance to see the second, more specialized vet, but rather I saw the same vet twice.
During the second visit he told me to wait until Thursday, try to feed him so he get stronger and then bring him back for surgery and staying the night there.
I'm afraid he didn't get the treatment he deserved. During the first visit I came back home without full diagnosis, all I knew is that he might have a chronic disease in the kidneys but didn't know why and how. Both visits my piggy got injected with fluids and got his pee hole pinched until a stone came out. The second time the stone was bigger and the burst of white stuff came out. I'm afraid that's why he was expanding and shrinking in his lower body during the night.
I feel bad for returning to my business and not feeding him this morning when I had the chance.

Unfortunately if a stone causes a blockage it can quickly mean that urine backs up and damages the kidneys, often irreversibly. Even if you had had the surgery the first or second visit there is no guarantee of success. My own Donald earlier this year stayed in hospital for a couple of nights getting fed round the clock to build him up strong enough for surgery to remove a stone. He survived but within two weeks went back downhill and we had to have him put to sleep. It was the other kidney that was swollen that time, he definitely would not have survived another surgery so soon if it were a blockage and if it wasn't another stone then there was a good chance the kidneys had been too damaged for him to carry on. It's heartbreaking but by seeking prompt medical care you really did give your boy the best chance of survival. It's just not always possible

 

[Freela]

Guys thank you for your help.
Unfortunately my piggy did not survive the day.
I woke up early today to see how he is and he was still alive. I came back 2 hours later to find him unconcious and hard like as stone not responding. My father told me during the last hour he struggled breathing and was laying on his side. I think the way he was shaking like a heart beat was a big warning sign but it was late at night so there was nothing I could do.
We went to bury him in a shoe box to give him one last respect.

Is there a chance there was something to do at this point? I dread the thought we might buried him alive, but he wasn't responding and was hard like a stone.

I'm so sorry for your loss. Truly, there wasn't anything that you could have done differently. He had a lot going against him and was going to be touch and go even with a lot of medical treatment. You did everything you possibly could for him. And I'm sure if you thought he passed, he had passed. Hamsters (who are capable of hibernating and often do so while they are actively dying) may fool you for a bit, but not guinea pigs. Please don't worry that you buried him before he had passed, that didn't happen.

((HUGS)) and so sorry for your loss.

 

[Claire W]

I am so sorry that you lost him please be kind to yourself. There isn’t anything else you could have done xx

 

[guinea777]

Thank you guys, it's harder than I thought it would be.
He was my first and only guinea pig. Initially he wasn't even mine but came in as a gift to my little sister from a friend. But as year went by the responsibility shifted towards me and when he was getting weak I was committed to save him. It sucks that I feel that I should have taken him earlier to see a vet, and only found out about a more reliable vet after it was too late. I can't help but wonder what would have happen if I took him to that vet, or syringe fed him this very morning when I had the chance. I feel like he died too young. He almost reached 4 years old.

 

[Bill & Ted]

I’m so sorry for your loss, sending you big hugs, try think of all the lovely times you had with him
Sleep tight little man x

 

[Alisa3114]

So sorry for your loss, sounds like you tried everything you could to save him.

 

[Claire W]

Don’t blame yourself. Chances are he was already too weak to be syringe fed. You did everything you could x

 

[Wiebke]

I am so sorry, but please do not feel guilty - you did what you thought was the best under very difficult circumstances.
Your boy didn't have kidney disease but he most likely had a bladder full of slush and it is likely that the second stone did back up the urine into the kidneys. Unfortunately bladder stones/slush in boars are never good news in boars, not even with a good vet at hand; they are one of the operations we see a high rate of fatalities due to where the stones fetch up and are very difficult/impossible to operate out.

On top of that, your boy had overgrowing teeth. Another problem that requires a very good vet. Cavy dental savvy vets are RARE because it is not an area that is being taught in vet college. Even here in the UK we only have a small number of dental savvy vets, and people travel across half the country in order to see one that can save a guinea pig given up by a local vet. Finding a dental savvy vet in Israel would have been very difficult, and even impossible. Even had you had a vet who could have dealt with the bladder issue, it would have been unlikely that your boy would have been able to get the dental treatments he needed - and it would have been anything but cheap as he would have required a number of them.
It is always very difficult when you have pets like guinea pigs which are the step children of veterinary medicine in a country where there is not much experience around.

Please do not beat yourself up too badly; feeling of guilt and failure and soul searching are normal for this stage. The problem is that it is always easy to follow back your path and see where you could have done better when in reality you are trying to find your way through a maze blindfolded and without a map. We all make mistakes and learn some lessons the hard way - I have lost piggies along the way that I wouldn't nowadays because I can spot the signs and risk early on and I have access to a good vet, which I didn't then. But this is part of the learning process; and even now I am losing piggies to unforeseen or unforeseeable issues.
I cannot go back and save those piggies but I can take those painful lessons and help my current piggies and the piggies passing through this forum to help save lives if at all possible to try and make a little difference.

Please try to be kind to yourself while you go through your grieving process. As you have to grieve as much as you love (and you are obviously a very loving and caring owner), you cannot fast forward this process.

This guide here will hopefully help you to understand your current emotional storm and your experiences in the coming days and weeks batter: Human Bereavement - Grieving, coping tips and support links for guinea pig owners and their children

 

[guinea777]

Thank you guys for your words, I appreciate it and it helps.
It's been a hard day with a lot of emotion.
I even called the vet for the sake of closure to figure out how and why my piggy deteriorated so fast after our visit. He wasn't at the clinic but they said he will return me a call later today after I told the assistant what the bad news. The vet haven't returned to me and it makes me even angrier towards him.

 

[guinea777]

So the vet didn't return to me. I'm thinking about calling the clinic again and trying to confront him with how he deteriorated the state of my piggy - first by clipping his teeth hurting his ability to eat even further, and secondly with causing him to faint and be in pain until he died the next day. I'm mad that he didn't even call to say a few kind words.

I still can't get over the fact my piggy is gone

 

[Swissgreys]

So the vet didn't return to me. I'm thinking about calling the clinic again and trying to confront him with how he deteriorated the state of my piggy - first by clipping his teeth hurting his ability to eat even further, and secondly with causing him to faint and be in pain until he died the next day. I'm mad that he didn't even call to say a few kind words.

I still can't get over the fact my piggy is gone

I am so sorry for your loss, but please try to be kind to yourself.
You did everything possible for your piggy, including taking him to a vet when he needed medical attention.
While it would be ideal if we all had access to specialist exotics vets all the time, the reality is that many of us have to use local vets who may be less experienced with piggies.
I do think it is disappointing that your vet hasn't found the time to call and express his sympathy for the loss of your precious boy