Bladder issues

[Hamandsammich]

Hi,

Our guinea pig Sammich has had trouble with his bladder since he was about 5 months. He is an almost 2 year old male and lives with another male the same age. They have a large cage and a minimum of 2 hours floor time every day.

He gets what we think is recurrent cystitis, or that the tissue in his bladder is damaged and gets sore. The vet is a small animal specialist and prescribes us metacam and baytril. Usually this does the trick but sometimes it takes a couple of weeks. However the last 2 episodes he hasn't really recovered from, he just deteriorates as soon as we stop the medication. The episodes of pain are now happening weeks apart rather than months.

He has had an xray and ultrasound to rule out stones, sludge or tumours, all clear. The vet thought maybe it was stress induced and gave us a herbal medication, but Sammich hated it so much it was counter intuitive and was stressing him out more trying to administer it.

We're back to the vets tomorrow as he has been on antibiotics for 3 full weeks and is not better.

I'm at a bit of a loss now and don't want to continue with him in pain all of the time if we can't help him make almost a full recovery as this seems unfair to him

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,

Our guinea pig Sammich has had trouble with his bladder since he was about 5 months. He is an almost 2 year old male and lives with another male the same age. They have a large cage and a minimum of 2 hours floor time every day.

He gets what we think is recurrent cystitis, or that the tissue in his bladder is damaged and gets sore. The vet is a small animal specialist and prescribes us metacam and baytril. Usually this does the trick but sometimes it takes a couple of weeks. However the last 2 episodes he hasn't really recovered from, he just deteriorates as soon as we stop the medication. The episodes of pain are now happening weeks apart rather than months.

He has had an xray and ultrasound to rule out stones, sludge or tumours, all clear. The vet thought maybe it was stress induced and gave us a herbal medication, but Sammich hated it so much it was counter intuitive and was stressing him out more trying to administer it.

We're back to the vets tomorrow as he has been on antibiotics for 3 full weeks and is not better.

I'm at a bit of a loss now and don't want to continue with him in pain all of the time if we can't help him make almost a full recovery as this seems unfair to him

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

Hi and welcome

Sterile interstitial cystitis (IC) has become a lot more common in recent years but this is not yet well known by general vets. It is called sterile because it is not a bacterial cystitis and therefore doesn't react much or at all to anitbiotics.

We also do not know what is causing it and can therefore only manage the symptoms with metacam (which is a painkiller as well as an anti-inflammatory) and glucosamine, like for instance cystease and similar cat bladder food supplements which, as they are not classed as medication, are freely available online. The latter is to support the natural glucosamine coating of the bladder walls. Cats are the other species suffering from similar problems.

IC can unfortunately only be diagnosed by default after all bladder problems that present with very similar symptoms have been excluded.

The good news is that IC will often eventually go away on its own, does not cause bladders stones or sludge and is not fatal or life shortening. The bad news is that it is generally a matter of years rather than months.

Here is more information on IC (interstitial cystitis): Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

PS: If it is any consolation to you, I have another IC piggy again, as well.
Before that, my Nerys had it for three years, then had another three years free of any bladder problems and died at the ripe old age of 8 years from age related issues.

 

[DMS260820]

@Claire W

 

[Hamandsammich]

Hi and welcome

Sterile interstitial cystitis (IC) has become a lot more common in recent years but this is not yet well known by general vets. It is called sterile because it is not a bacterial cystitis and therefore doesn't react much or at all to anitbiotics.

We also do not know what is causing it and can therefore only manage the symptoms with metacam (which is a painkiller as well as an anti-inflammatory) and glucosamine, like for instance cystease and similar cat bladder food supplements which, as they are not classed as medication, are freely available online. The latter is to support the natural glucosamine coating of the bladder walls. Cats are the other species suffering from similar problems.

IC can unfortunately only be diagnosed by default after all bladder problems that present with very similar symptoms have been excluded.

The good news is that IC will often eventually go away on its own, does not cause bladders stones or sludge and is not fatal or life shortening. The bad news is that it is generally a matter of years rather than months.

Here is more information on IC (interstitial cystitis): Links - Interstitial Cystitis - Guinea Lynx Records

PS: If it is any consolation to you, I have another IC piggy again, as well.
Before that, my Nerys had it for three years, then had another three years free of any bladder problems and died at the ripe old age of 8 years from age related issues.

Thank you, I will mention what I've read to the vet tomorrow. I do wonder whether daily medication is a fair long term solution for him because it is so stressful for him, although the vet doesn't seem to think this is a problem.

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you, I will mention what I've read to the vet tomorrow. I do wonder whether daily medication is a fair long term solution for him because it is so stressful for him, although the vet doesn't seem to think this is a problem.

Daily medication is not a problem; your boy will get used to it. My Breila is on once daily cystease and metacam in between IC flares; during flares I up the metacam to twice daily. She doesn't like it but we are slowly working towards her allowing me to medicate her in the cage.

Thankfully, unlike many species, guinea pigs cope a lot better with metacam on a long term basis. Breila is on 0.2 ml dog metacam, which I can give safely twice daily if necessary. She is around 1 kilo.

Use our piggy whispering tips for the medicating; they can help. Combine them with plenty of praise and encouragement and a little special treat afterwards.
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips
Who is the boss - your guinea pig or you?

You can find our diet recommendations for guinea pigs with longer term urinary tract problems (especially IC and bladder stones) in this link here: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

All the best!

 

[Hamandsammich]

Daily medication is not a problem; your boy will get used to it. My Breila is on once daily cystease and metacam in between IC flares; during flares I up the metacam to twice daily. She doesn't like it but we are slowly working towards her allowing me to medicate her in the cage.

Thankfully, unlike many species, guinea pigs cope a lot better with metacam on a long term basis. Breila is on 0.2 ml dog metacam, which I can give safely twice daily if necessary. She is around 1 kilo.

Use our piggy whispering tips for the medicating; they can help:
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips
Who is the boss - your guinea pig or you?

All the best!

That's good news. He loves the metacam, I can give him that in the cage or floor time no bother. He hates the taste of the baytril so gets really stressed and has to be held still. It was worse with the nutracalm (it does stink, to be fair) so we decided it was too stressful for him.

 

[Claire W]

I can’t add anymore to what Wiebke has posted but I’ve had two girls with IC now. What are you feeding?

 

[Hamandsammich]

I can’t add anymore to what Wiebke has posted but I’ve had two girls with IC now. What are you feeding?

Hay, around a cup each of various veggies daily, we just try to give a big mixture never too much of anything, and alfalfa biscuits

 

[Claire W]

Hay, around a cup each of various veggies daily, we just try to give a big mixture never too much of anything, and alfalfa biscuits

I suggest that you don’t feed the alfalfa food as alfalfa can in fact contribute towards bladder problems. Look for a pellet food that has Timothy hay pellets. You’re also looking at veg which isn’t high in calcium. I feed cucumber, peppers all colours, green bean, coriander and little gem lettuce. You can swap the lettuce for a slither of spring greens but I can’t get hold of it easily. You can also add celery but mine don’t like it.

I also give filtered water and of course, hay 24:7

 

[Hamandsammich]

I suggest that you don’t feed the alfalfa food as alfalfa can in fact contribute towards bladder problems. Look for a pellet food that has Timothy hay pellets. You’re also looking at veg which isn’t high in calcium. I feed cucumber, peppers all colours, green bean, coriander and little gem lettuce. You can swap the lettuce for a slither of spring greens but I can’t get hold of it easily. You can also add celery but mine don’t like it.

I also give filtered water and of course, hay 24:7

Thanks will swap the biscuits. We're already very conscious of the high calcium stuff so they don't have much of that. We feed them essentially what you said as a base diet. We can get hold of spring greens very easily but they're not the biggest fans of it. It's so frustrating that they eat the same, and one has had one check up ever and no problems, and the other is getting ill all the time!

 

[Claire W]

Thanks will swap the biscuits. We're already very conscious of the high calcium stuff so they don't have much of that. We feed them essentially what you said as a base diet. We can get hold of spring greens very easily but they're not the biggest fans of it. It's so frustrating that they eat the same, and one has had one check up ever and no problems, and the other is getting ill all the time!

Sadly that’s the way it goes but I’m sure that swapping their pellet food to a none alfalfa pellet will prevent stones and / sludge. IC is a very frustrating illness as is diagnosing it! It’s good that you’re steering clear of high calcium veg

 

[Hamandsammich]

Thanks for all your replies. We just took Sammich to the vets and he'd developed a large tumour in his bladder, so we had to have him put to sleep.

Obviously gutted and will be keeping an eye on Ham while we figure out what to do next.

 

[Hamandsammich]

Daily medication is not a problem; your boy will get used to it. My Breila is on once daily cystease and metacam in between IC flares; during flares I up the metacam to twice daily. She doesn't like it but we are slowly working towards her allowing me to medicate her in the cage.

Thankfully, unlike many species, guinea pigs cope a lot better with metacam on a long term basis. Breila is on 0.2 ml dog metacam, which I can give safely twice daily if necessary. She is around 1 kilo.

Use our piggy whispering tips for the medicating; they can help. Combine them with plenty of praise and encouragement and a little special treat afterwards.
Understanding Prey Animal Instincts, Guinea Pig Whispering And Cuddling Tips
Who is the boss - your guinea pig or you?

You can find our diet recommendations for guinea pigs with longer term urinary tract problems (especially IC and bladder stones) in this link here: Long Term Balanced General And Special Needs Guinea Pig Diets

All the best!

Sorry for more questions. Ham seems to be coping ok without his friend for now, but I know we will need to get him a friend at some point. I've read your grieving pigs page, Ham is about 2 and not neutered. Would we be better to try to bond him with a very young pig, or one a bit older that will have had the teenager hormone phase already? I've checked but don't think there are any rescues nearby that do boar dating (we're in Merseyside, UK).

Thanks again

 

[alpacasqueak]

I’m so sorry for your loss.
Sleep tight Sammich x

 

[Wiebke]

Sorry for more questions. Ham seems to be coping ok without his friend for now, but I know we will need to get him a friend at some point. I've read your grieving pigs page, Ham is about 2 and not neutered. Would we be better to try to bond him with a very young pig, or one a bit older that will have had the teenager hormone phase already? I've checked but don't think there are any rescues nearby that do boar dating (we're in Merseyside, UK).

Thanks again

Unfortunately when bonding boys on spec you are in with about a 50% chance of success, either way.
Would you consider neutering so your boy can live with a younger sow where acceptance is much more guaranteed and fall-outs after acceptance are very rare?

You may find the information in these guides here helpful in thinking the home bonding and the neutering options through.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars (includes a chapter on home bonding)
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths And Facts

 

[Claire W]

I’m so sorry for your loss xx

 

[Hamandsammich]

Unfortunately when bonding boys on spec you are in with about a 50% chance of success, either way.
Would you consider neutering so your boy can live with a younger sow where acceptance is much more guaranteed and fall-outs after acceptance are very rare?

You may find the information in these guides here helpful in thinking the home bonding and the neutering options through.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars (includes a chapter on home bonding)
Neutered / De-sexed Boars And Neutering Operations: Myths And Facts

Yes I'd consider it, although after he's had some time to adjust to his buddy not being around. They've both been quite laid back pigs, never fought much just the odd argument. I've never even been able to work out who was dominant. I'll give everything a read.

 

[artcasper]

Aww sorry for your loss x

 

[Minnieandpebbs]

So sorry for your loss.