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Bladder Pig/ Bladder Stone Piggy People

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TAN

TAN

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Well,as you may know I have had 3 pigs at the vets in just under a month - 2 with lump removals and Bumble with pink wee and sqeeking - My vet agreed to keep Bumble on septrin and it will be 4 weeks by the end of this week - only last night he was pain squeeking again (the pink wee stopped just a few days after he started on the Septrin) but now his wee is pink again! I take it this means its not a *.T.I ,so I will be speaking to my vet tomorrow,as I need to see Iain who listens to what I have to say and is willing to listen to the advice and experiences of other members on this forum who have had pigs with similar problems - apart from an x-ray or CT scan to rule out stones or sludge,how do they tell if its cystitis? -
Iain wasn't working when I had to take Bumble in origionally.and the female vet I saw just palpated his bladder and said she couldn't feel any sludge (I know you cant feel a stone as it would be inside the tube),so she had to treat for what she could see - was relucant to give septrin but did prescribe 5 days worth (Iain agreed to give me a longer dose after showing him the replies to one of my posts on here about how long a course of septrin should be) - Any ideas on whether its cystitis or a stone by his symptoms?
 
Sounds as if this needs further investigation, 4 weeks is an awful long time without seeing any improvement. I think the next option a vet would suggest is an xray to rule out the possibility of a stone.
On the other hand bacteria can be resistant to the antibiotic being given.
 
That's what I thought - He had improved -no pink wees and just a bit of squeeking - I have just seen a fresh cloudy pink wee and done a urine strip test ,which is showing up moderate to large on the scale for blood - am thinking its a stone myself - especially as I took him in back in December after a particularly large hoot where another vet did a urine test that was clear and we both thought he might have passed a stone
 
Yes I feel it will be another trip to the vets by the sound of it, keeping my fingers crossed for you both.
 
Hi, from what you say and the fact he is a boar makes me think that sadly it is more likely to be a stone but he will need to be xrayed to confirm this. Generally speaking bladder issues in sows are more likely to be cystisis than they are in boars due to it being easier for infection to track up into a sows bladder as they don't have a long ureathra like boars

Often bladders that have a stone/sludge/infection have thickened walls making it difficult for even experienced vets to know whats going on just by palpating.

it is possible it is an infection which is resistent to septrin. Last year I had a sow with cystisis who did not respond to septrin, baytril or zithromax but in the end was cured by a course of marbocyl injections. However, due to the high possibilty of a stone being involved it would be best to get a proper diagnosis ( such as by xray) rather than progressing to other antibiotics.

I know a lot of people worry about xraying under GA but in many respects it is the best option. They do not need to be under very deeply or for very long just to be xrayed and being unconcious will enable the vet to position the legs so they are not under the piggy, resulting in a much better shot with no bones superimposed on a stone making it hard to interpret. Also a side on view can also be taken so if there is a stone it will be a lot easier to pinpoint where it is.

if a stone is shown it would be worth progressing to operate there and then rather than having a second anaesthetic an other day. With this in mind i would strongly recomend going to an experienced cavy savvy vet.

It is also possible, although less likely, that there are stones in the uriters ( the tubes running from the kidneys to the bladder). If on xray there appears to be more than one stone (especially if there are three) it is highly likey that the additional stones are in the uriters, if this is the case surgery is far more complex and risky so I would reccomend discussing how to proceed if this is the senario with your vet before carrying out the xrays.

Hopefully tho it is an infection and a different antibiotic will cure him :)
 
I would also say that an xray or scan needs to be carried out to rule out a stone before agreeing it's cystitis. My Amy had a scan which showed no stone so was started on glucosamine which she is on for life and has improved greatly. She also had a short course of Septrin to clear up any infection.
 
I think it's time to start looking for a cavy savvy vet.

If he's been on antibiotics for 4 weeks with no improvement, then I'm surprised that more diagnostics haven't been done. Even looking at urine under the microscope will tell you if there's bacteria present. If there's bacteria present, then bacteriology and sensitivity is the way to go - they'll grow the bacteria in the lab and see which antibiotics it's sensitive to.

If it's not a bacterial infection, then stones should be ruled out. This can be done by an x-ray (to do it well would require a dorsoventral view (top to bottom) and a lateral view (side to side) so would require an anaesthetic. Just doing it top to bottom leaves the possibility of it being missed if it's not out of the line of other bony structures (spine etc.). Stones can be picked up by ultrasound if they're big enough and the sonographer is particularly experienced (you don't look for stones on an ultrasound, you look for the shadows...it's not easy, especially on such a small animal). If you have access to a CT scanner, that would give a much more conclusive answer with regards to stones - they provide much better images and smaller things can be picked up.

Cystitis is another potential issue - this can be diagnosed by microscopy. Sludge can be seen on a CT scan, or can sometimes been seen in the urine. Pigs pass calcium deposits in their urine, as that's how they excrete any excess (humans and most other animals excrete it in their poo), but if it's problematic it'll feel gritty.

It could also be a kidney problem - this can be ruled out by looking at patterns of behaviour (is he eating more? Drinking more? urinating more? Losing weight?) and quantified by a blood test.

Hope that helps a little - I think this pig definitely needs more investigations by someone who knows what they're doing!
 
Have just phoned the vets as a little voice kept telling me to try them as Iain might be on call - and hey presto he was - he has just done a great bit of complicated surgery on Nuggets and is really open to my opinions and suggestions - he was interested on reading replies to my previous posts on here that I printed out and showed him - I always try and see him or Cyril, but unfortunately couldn't get Bumble to him origionally - he has basically just said verbatim what Amanda has said and we will be seeing him tomorrow at 2 .
 
Cant really say any more than all the good advice from everyone above. X-ray to rule out stones and see where you go from there. If it turns out to be cystitis, we have plenty of expereince with that having had 3 bladder piggies.
A lady Helen knows really helped us get our girls cystisis under control after it was diagnosed by our vet and there are several approaches you can try.

But first get Stones ruled out, it may be worth getting a urine analysis if you haven't already done just to rule out a stubborn infection that may be resistant to certain antibiotics...

Let us know how you get on
 
X-ray showed. No stones - kidneys ok- urine is off to be cultured and he is now on baytril until results are back- thank god for insurance -about £600 so far for 2 ops - 2 histology & x-rays
 
Great news on the stones, hope the culture comes back soon. Is he on any metacam for pain? - This would also help with any inflamation in the bladder.
 
sport_billy said:
Great news on the stones, hope the culture comes back soon. Is he on any metacam for pain? - This would also help with any inflamation in the bladder.
Click to expand...

Yes he is on Metacam - vet has given me a big bottle of dog metacam,as he knows I have 7 pigs (2 of them needing pain relief at the moment after lump removal ops ) and has told me what I can dose = told me to expect Bumble to be sleepy after his anesthetic,but he was up trying to hump one of his wives and scoffing carrot tops within 1/2 an hour! (Bumble - not the vet! ).Pink wee has stopped and squeeking is non existant so far this evening,though the look on his face was priceless when I gave him a big glug of baytril as he thought it was his "banana juice" septrin that he comes running over for - I don't think he likes me anymore!
 
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