Bladder problem piggies- what veggies are best?

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klee

klee

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With Esme's current bladder problems i would like to know what leafy veg is okay and not too high in calcium?
She loves her veggies so i don't want her to miss out but i also don't want her to be getting too much calcium.
Any advice welcomed :)
 
sport_billy said:
Hi

Here is a link to a sortable food list on guinealynx you can sort it in tems of calcium content http://www.guinealynx.info/chart.html#chart

Here is a link to an excellent post by Laura, regarding ratios, halfway down it gives frequency of feeding info and the calcium levels http://www.theguineapigforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30297

We had a long term Bladder piggie 'Putt' and had to reduce her Calcium ratio.

Love to Esme x
Click to expand...

Thanks! I have been looking at laura's post already, but got myself a little confused as to what is good/bad and how much calcium is bad etc.I'll figure it out soon enough. I got them some red cabbage so Rosie has a purple chin ;)
 
I generally stick to the occasion fruits, coriander, peppers (red. yellow, green), lettuce various types except ICE-BERG of course!

Me and my vet both agreed after 12 months of Patrick suffering with Interstitial Cystitis and regular Xrays, we finally found two stones in his uretre he had major surgery and is now 4 months post operation.

Every day he gets between 60 and 90 ml's of water syringed to him and to be honest personally I think this is the best thing for any bladder pig.
 
We used to try and keep to the suggested ratio and at one point were weighing out foods to get to the ideal 1.3:1. calcium: phosphorus (Ca: P) ratio as possible - there is a excel calculator you can download off that link on guinea lynx.

I think if you try and keep to the low calcium foods as a rule and as Flintstones as said fluids... She is very experienced when it comes to bladder problems and has always offered great advice in the past..

Has Esme had an xray or ultrasound? To check for inflamation/bladder stones? Hopefully it is just a stubborn UTI.

healing vibes to her x
 
I tend to stick to lettuces (not iceberg) red, green, yellow and orange pepper, cucumber, celery, carrot, tomato, broccoli and parsley in small quantities and coriander. My girls only drink either filtered or bottled water and not tap water
 
What to do next?

sport_billy said:
We used to try and keep to the suggested ratio and at one point were weighing out foods to get to the ideal 1.3:1. calcium: phosphorus (Ca: P) ratio as possible - there is a excel calculator you can download off that link on guinea lynx.

I think if you try and keep to the low calcium foods as a rule and as Flintstones as said fluids... She is very experienced when it comes to bladder problems and has always offered great advice in the past..

Has Esme had an xray or ultrasound? To check for inflamation/bladder stones? Hopefully it is just a stubborn UTI.

healing vibes to her x
Click to expand...

She didn't have an xray/ ultrasound. The vet said she couldn't feel anything, I know it isn't always conclusive but she did have a good feel. She did centrifuge the urine sample she got, and found blood and cells that signify infection.
I'm hoping it is just a stubborn UTI aswell, but better to be safe than sorry. She doesn't show any signs of the UTI/ bladder stones? i.e. no squeaking, hunching up when weeing/pooing, no visible blood in the urine (Except at the vets) she is still eating for England, and has been maintaining her weight at present.

As I've said before, what concerns me is as she has no symptoms I am unlikely to know whether it has cleared up without going back to the vet. My two local vets I am registered aren't really cavy savy and the vets I went to near the Potteries is over an hour away.

What do you think is best?
 
Claire W said:
I tend to stick to lettuces (not iceberg) red, green, yellow and orange pepper, cucumber, celery, carrot, tomato, broccoli and parsley in small quantities and coriander. My girls only drink either filtered or bottled water and not tap water
Click to expand...


Sounds like the girls diet at present- minus the parsley but with a few pieces of cabbage a week, they have each had a small piece of red cabbage tonight and now have purple chins.

Do you find the bottled water helps? I have never used bottled/filtered water for the guineas. Is the calcium content in tap water quite high?

x
 
It could be a low level UTI; blood is not always visible and red urine actually does not always contain blood - I have been there myself! If you are worried about a stone, an x-ray (either without or with just very light anaesthesia) is the one thing that can give you peace of mind.
 
flintstones said:
I generally stick to the occasion fruits, coriander, peppers (red. yellow, green), lettuce various types except ICE-BERG of course!

Me and my vet both agreed after 12 months of Patrick suffering with Interstitial Cystitis and regular Xrays, we finally found two stones in his uretre he had major surgery and is now 4 months post operation.

Every day he gets between 60 and 90 ml's of water syringed to him and to be honest personally I think this is the best thing for any bladder pig.
Click to expand...

How much water do you manage to get Patrick to take each time? and how often a day?
I'm glad Patrick's doing well after his op :)

xx
 
klee said:
Sounds like the girls diet at present- minus the parsley but with a few pieces of cabbage a week, they have each had a small piece of red cabbage tonight and now have purple chins.

Do you find the bottled water helps? I have never used bottled/filtered water for the guineas. Is the calcium content in tap water quite high?

x
Click to expand...

I see you are in Preston so you are probably in a soft water area like me. Hard water areas have a higher calcium content in the water than soft water areas.

I have had two bladder pigs and my vet recommended trying filtered or bottled water and I have never gone back to tap.

Quite a few members on here give filtered and bottled water. I just do it as a precaution now :)
 
Wiebke said:
It could be a low level UTI; blood is not always visible and red urine actually does not always contain blood - I have been there myself! If you are worried about a stone, an x-ray (either without or with just very light anaesthesia) is the one thing that can give you peace of mind.
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Thanks Wiebke. When the vet looked at her urine sample and spun it down, she said that there was blood in the urine.
I should have asked about an xray on Saturday when we went, but in the heat of it all I forgot- she said she couldn't feel anything and it just didn't occur to me to ask.

It would be worth me going back to a cavy savvy vet wouldn't it?
Are all the vets on the vets list definitely cavy savvy? x
 
Claire W said:
I see you are in Preston so you are probably in a soft water area like me. Hard water areas have a higher calcium content in the water than soft water areas.

I have had two bladder pigs and my vet recommended trying filtered or bottled water and I have never gone back to tap.

Quite a few members on here give filtered and bottled water. I just do it as a precaution now :)
Click to expand...

The pigs are actually living at 'home' in Ellesmere Port. Preston is where I am at uni ;)

I might try bottled water, or I think we actually have a brita filter- not sure whether we still have the filters for it. It may be worth a try
 
klee said:
The pigs are actually living at 'home' in Ellesmere Port. Preston is where I am at uni ;)

I might try bottled water, or I think we actually have a brita filter- not sure whether we still have the filters for it. It may be worth a try
Click to expand...

I think tap water gets harder the further south you go :)

It won't do any harm trying them with bottled or filtered water :)
 
klee said:
How much water do you manage to get Patrick to take each time? and how often a day?
I'm glad Patrick's doing well after his op :)

xx
Click to expand...

Patrick gets 45ml's in the morning and another 30+ in the evening I just syringe as much as he'll take. Always be careful not to give to much at once or to quickly to avoid aspirating her.

If there's no sign's why was she at the vet? Certainly blood in the urine is an indicator of something not right be it sludge, stones or infection. A feel of a bladder is not conclusive evidence that no stone exists.

I always caution syringing additional fluids when you do not know if or not a stone is present. Stones move, and fluids flush the bladder so help excrete sludge but could also help a stone move to block the uretre or the ureathral.

Is she on Antibiotic's, if so how long for? I found initially when P's problems first began the squeaking and blood would clear after 4 days on Abs only to return back within a couple days or a week.

A good step would be a urine analysis, to check for crystals ie sludge the vet can do this by analyzing a fresh urine sample under the microscope.

These urine sticks are great to test for blood, doesn't replace a vet but will certainly tell you if she has acute blood (invisible blood) in her urine rather than visible.

[ame="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Parameter-Urinalysis-Multisticks-Urine-Strips/dp/B0032IKZV6/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1341871432&sr=8-1-fkmr0"]1 Tub x 100 x 10 Parameter Urinalysis Multisticks Urine Strip Test Stick Strips - pH / Glucose / Ketone / Liver & Kidney Infection: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Beauty[/ame]
 
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flintstones said:
Patrick gets 45ml's in the morning and another 30+ in the evening I just syringe as much as he'll take. Always be careful not to give to much at once or to quickly.

If there's no sign's why was she at the vet? Certainly blood in the urine is an indicator of something not right be it sludge, stones or infection. A feel of a bladder is not conclusive evidence that no stone exists.

I always caution syringing additional fluids when you do not know if or not a stone is present. Stones move, and fluids flush the bladder so help excrete sludge but could also help a stone move to block the uretre or the ureathral.

Is she on Antibiotic's, if so how long for? I found initially when P's problems first began the squeaking and blood would clear after 4 days on Abs only to return back within a couple days or a week.

A good step would be a urine analysis, to check for crystals ie sludge.

These urine sticks are great to test for blood, doesn't replace a vet but will certainly tell you if she has acute blood in her urine rather than visible.

1 Tub x 100 x 10 Parameter Urinalysis Multisticks Urine Strip Test Stick Strips - pH / Glucose / Ketone / Liver & Kidney Infection: Amazon.co.uk: Health & Beauty
Click to expand...

Here's the story so far:
Initial weight loss of 100g in about a week.
Vet diagnosed UTI based on dipstick urine test. On baytril 0.2ml a day for 5 days.
As no symptoms, I spoke to Helen who suggested trying her cavy savvy vet to try and rule out any stones.
Saw the vet on Saturday, she had a feel and palpated the bladder- definite signs of some discomfort when she was touching the area.
Managed to get a urine sample from her, visible blood in the urine with some calcium specks.
She spun the urine and said there was definite blood present and some infection-indicating cells too.

She is on marbocyl 0.25ml a day (off the top of my head without looking) for 8 days, and metacam 0.45ml a day- I have enough for 7 days.
Also been advised to use cystease in water daily. I normally add a drop of cranberry juice and she will take about 3ml if I'm lucky.

The vet said something about the dipsticks not always being accurate due to the pigment in guinea pig urine? Not sure though.
 
klee said:
Here's the story so far:
Initial weight loss of 100g in about a week.
Vet diagnosed UTI based on dipstick urine test. On baytril 0.2ml a day for 5 days.
As no symptoms, I spoke to Helen who suggested trying her cavy savvy vet to try and rule out any stones.
Saw the vet on Saturday, she had a feel and palpated the bladder- definite signs of some discomfort when she was touching the area.
Managed to get a urine sample from her, visible blood in the urine with some calcium specks.
She spun the urine and said there was definite blood present and some infection-indicating cells too.

She is on marbocyl 0.25ml a day (off the top of my head without looking) for 8 days, and metacam 0.45ml a day- I have enough for 7 days.
Also been advised to use cystease in water daily. I normally add a drop of cranberry juice and she will take about 3ml if I'm lucky.

The vet said something about the dipsticks not always being accurate due to the pigment in guinea pig urine? Not sure though.
Click to expand...

The vet is right they aren't the best for anything other than blood, I used them a lot with Patrick as the majority of the time his blood was acute (invisible), P also cried. That's a big weight loss obviously her symptom, I would keep her topped up with critical care also.

Try offering Peal Barley, you buy it from the supermarket next to the lentils, add half a cup to a pan and then add 3/4 water. Boil for 35 - 45 mins and then drain the liquid into a bowl and syringe to her once cooled.
 
flintstones said:
The vet is right they aren't the best for anything other than blood, I used them a lot with Patrick as the majority of the time his blood was acute (invisible), P also cried. That's a big weight loss obviously her symptom, I would keep her topped up with critical care also.

Try offering Peal Barley, you buy it from the supermarket next to the lentils, add half a cup to a pan and then add 3/4 water. Boil for 35 - 45 mins and then drain the liquid into a bowl and syringe to her once cooled.
Click to expand...

She has regained some weight, still monitoring her at the moment- she is nowhere near her peak weight but has definitely put on at least 50g since the initial loss and has maintained it. I haven't weighed her today but will check her again tomorrow.
Haven't got any critical care in at present, will pellet mush be okay for the time being? I will have to add CC to my list of things I need to buy from the web.

What do you use feeding-syringe wise? I currently have several 1ml syringes for her medicines and a 5ml syringe. Obviously these won't hold very much foodwise.

Thanks
 
Yeah - I buy the green bag I always have it in stock, it keeps for ages! I use 1ml syringes but you might find when you make it up she'll happily eat it off a teaspoon. I normally cut the end off a 1ml syringe and place the syringe just behind the two front teeth again be careful not to aspirate. I feed very slowly be sure not to place to much at once in her mouth but do try offering syringe food first on a spoon, mushed up pellets are fine to you may find she really likes them if you offer her some mushy pellets.

I'd weigh daily for the time being, sounds like it's your only indication that anything is wrong.
 
Okay, as you can tell I have been lucky enough not to have a poorly piggy until now and am slightly unprepared.
I will try her with some mush tomorrow, she is still eating pellets and veg anyway but hopefully a little extra will help her get back to her peak weight.
I think I'll have to do a trip out to asda in the morning to get some pearl barley aswell, and then I can get that started whilst sorting everything else out.
Good job I'm off work this week.
 
Update

Esme is maintaining weight at is currently sticking between 1180-1190g. She was 1182g this morning, when she lost the initial 100g she went down to 1130g. So i think it is good she is where she is at the moment, hopefully she'll put on some more to get past the 1200g mark x
 
Good news on her weight.

One of our old piggie's Putt had long term bladder issues. A ultrasound revealed a thickened bladder wall this was causing her probelms when pooing and weeing. She was on metacam long term to help the inflamation and had regular injections of Cartohpen which helps line the bladder

I would see how Esme goes, but consider xray/ultrasound just to rule anything out if she goes downhill or is still poorly after the course of Anti-biotics finishes. X-rays can be carried out without General Anesthetic.
Hopefully the longer course of Antibiotic may do the trick.

It's worth as Flintstones said checking for blood at the end of the course with a dipstick and maybe worth sending the urine away for a culture if the problem persists..

We have had success with the antibiotic Septrin when faced with stubborn UTI's inthe past.

Lots of vibes to Esme x
 
still putting on weight :)

Just weighed Es and she is 1208g, so only 30ish grams off her top weight :)
She won't take the pearl barley water without a fight (or a drop of blackcurrant juice).
So we're continuing with the antibiotics, metacam and cystease (with a drop of blackcurrant, of course). Next job is to get an xray done at a suitable vets, i'm debating using beech house vets in warrington as they do an article guinea pig clinic in the guinea magazine. I just need to find out a bit more about them :)
 
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