Bladder Stone Recovery

[lexi468]

Hey guys!
So Midnight had surgery yesterday to have his bladder stone removed and he will be home soon!
I have a few questions, since I have never dealt with this before. He has had surgery before, but this is a little different.
When should I put him back in with Mocha? Should I have him by my bed, or in a separate cage next to Mochas? Also, last time he had surgery, he really enjoyed being inside cuddle sacks. This time, it's hot outside, so I'm wondering if I should just use my own judgement about whether or not it's too hot, or perhaps he will be colder cus he just had surgery (I know I always want to be cozy after surgery, regardless of the time of year). Also, since it was a bladder stone, does anybody have any diet tips? And is there anything special I should be worried about with this being his second surgery?
Thank you so much guys!

 

[lauraboara]

Sorry I have only a little time so can't look at all your points but this post will bump your thread anyhow. Unfortunately I have had a couple of bladder stone post op boys. I would keep him separate tonight but next door to his mate if possible so he can see / smell him. If separate you can monitor his food intake and poo output. I also find that boys are not as gentle with post op cagemates as people with sows tend to report ( I have 8 boys) but it varies with personality.
If he has had vetergesic he may still be a bit spaced out. Have veg treats, posh hay and water all very close to his bed.
Have you got pain meds for tomorrow?
You will have to judge the bedding by temp in your house - you don't want him hot but warm. There are some post op tips in a sticky thread which u should read.
Adpating his diet can wait for another day, just focus on getting him through the post op bit first. That said, filtering his water eg Brita filter is a good move from now.

 

[Wiebke]

Hey guys!
So Midnight had surgery yesterday to have his bladder stone removed and he will be home soon!
I have a few questions, since I have never dealt with this before. He has had surgery before, but this is a little different.
When should I put him back in with Mocha? Should I have him by my bed, or in a separate cage next to Mochas? Also, last time he had surgery, he really enjoyed being inside cuddle sacks. This time, it's hot outside, so I'm wondering if I should just use my own judgement about whether or not it's too hot, or perhaps he will be colder cus he just had surgery (I know I always want to be cozy after surgery, regardless of the time of year). Also, since it was a bladder stone, does anybody have any diet tips? And is there anything special I should be worried about with this being his second surgery?
Thank you so much guys!

Do your best to keep your boys in close contact and together or next to each other as much as possible in order to keep the bond alive. However, you need to first make sure that Midnight is well in himself and eating normally. Introduce on neutral ground as soon as that is the case and see how it goes. You will inevitably see some dominance behaviour.
If Midnight is poorly, let Mocha have regular cuddle sessions with Mindnight on your lap or next to you and see how that goes.

As to diet:
- please filter any water even in a soft water area; minerals can also contribute to the build up of stones
- switch to low calcium pellets if possible and feed them sparingly (about 1 tablespoon per day)
- stick to our sample diet (minus the lettuce) in our balanced diet guide; you can feed it once daily instead of twice daily - the main food intake should come from hay. The sample diet cuts out all the foods that can provide problems while still providing a wide range of nutrients.

Unless your guinea pig suffers from a problem during the complicated calcium absorption process that you cannot control with diet or has a genetic disposition for stones, a diet like that does really help to reduce the occurrence of stones. Many of our long term owner members feed their own twist of the sample diet; they are experiencing a lot less stone problems since they have done so.
Recommendations For A Balanced General Guinea Pig Diet

- supplement the diet with glucosamine or a glucosamine based cat food supplement to protect the natural glucosamine coat of the stressed bladder and urinary tract walls. The appropriate cat food supplement is called cystease or cystophan etc., but I don't know the comparable US brand names.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I was talking to Simon today about bladder stones. He said the best diet to feed is, hay, grass and a small amount of veg. Take pellets out of the diet completely and feed some porridge oats instead.

 

[lexi468]

Thanks for the advice!
I have started filtering their water, as I do live in a hard water area. I've also adjusted his diet slightly, but not much.
Are Oxbow pellets okay?
I was going to keep him by me tonight, but he seems okay on his own so I've put him next to Mocha. They've been apart for two days now, but I don't want to stress Midnight out by putting him in there with Mocha quite yet. Midnight was eating some hay on the way home and I had veggies in his hospital cage waiting for him, which he ate all of. He is not napping. The vet only sent me home with Baytril, and is not a believer in probiotics, so none of those or pain meds. However, I am absolutely thrilled with this vet. He was very fast in diagnosing and getting Midnight in for surgery. And the whole thing, two nights, surgery, and meds, was $297 USD. Wen Midnight had his abscess he did not have pain meds either, and I have critical care, so I'm confident he will be alright, but the vet told me what to look out for anyways. When I finally got him home I was in tears. I couldn't be happier that he's alright, and already eating. I'm just so incredibly grateful to have him back home with me.

 

[lexi468]

Whoops, I meant to say he is *now napping.

 

[lexi468]

I was talking to Simon today about bladder stones. He said the best diet to feed is, hay, grass and a small amount of veg. Take pellets out of the diet completely and feed some porridge oats instead.

Interesting. That would save me a lot of money! How much of the oats do you give? Could I also do that for his cagemate?

 

[Wiebke]

Thanks for the advice!
I have started filtering their water, as I do live in a hard water area. I've also adjusted his diet slightly, but not much.
Are Oxbow pellets okay?
I was going to keep him by me tonight, but he seems okay on his own so I've put him next to Mocha. They've been apart for two days now, but I don't want to stress Midnight out by putting him in there with Mocha quite yet. Midnight was eating some hay on the way home and I had veggies in his hospital cage waiting for him, which he ate all of. He is not napping. The vet only sent me home with Baytril, and is not a believer in probiotics, so none of those or pain meds. However, I am absolutely thrilled with this vet. He was very fast in diagnosing and getting Midnight in for surgery. And the whole thing, two nights, surgery, and meds, was $297 USD. Wen Midnight had his abscess he did not have pain meds either, and I have critical care, so I'm confident he will be alright, but the vet told me what to look out for anyways. When I finally got him home I was in tears. I couldn't be happier that he's alright, and already eating. I'm just so incredibly grateful to have him back home with me.

Please weigh Midnight daily at the same time and supplement with syringe feed if necessary. it can be VERY deceptive watching a piggy nibble and take that for eating normally. The scales don't lie! Your care in this respect is as vital as any medical care and can really make all the difference in his recovery.
Generally the relief from having the stone out is massive. if it is still sat in the bladder and has not embedded in the bladder or urethral walls, then recovery is usually fairly straight forward unless you are dealing with a bad reaction to GA. it takes about 2-3 days for the body to settle down again after the operation and to start healing.
Contact your vet if there is sudden loss of appetite/continuing loss of weight, apathy (this as an emergency) or if your boy is gnawing the operation scar open.
Give about 1 tablespoon per day of oxbow pellets.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

The piggies at TEAS have a bowlful of oats, unlimited grass and hay, a small amount of veg once a day. If they've been in the run on the grass during the day, they don't get any veg. I do feed a few nuggets as a treat. We've never had a piggy with a bladder issue. This pretty much fits in with what Simon has said. All the piggies can be fed the oats.

 

[lexi468]

Please weigh Midnight daily at the same time and supplement with syringe feed if necessary. it can be VERY deceptive watching a piggy nibble and take that for eating normally. The scales don't lie! Your care in this respect is as vital as any medical care and can really make all the difference in his recovery.
Generally the relief from having the stone out is massive. if it is still sat in the bladder and has not embedded in the bladder or urethral walls, then recovery is usually fairly straight forward unless you are dealing with a bad reaction to GA. it takes about 2-3 days for the body to settle down again after the operation and to start healing.
Contact your vet if there is sudden loss of appetite/continuing loss of weight, apathy (this as an emergency) or if your boy is gnawing the operation scar open.
Give about 1 tablespoon per day of oxbow pellets.

Yea he's eating pretty consistently at this point though. Hasn't really stopped since he got home. I'm wondering what they fed him at the vets.
That sounds good though! The vet didn't say anything about those things so I'm assuming it was all normal.

 

[rome_italy]

I was talking to Simon today about bladder stones. He said the best diet to feed is, hay, grass and a small amount of veg. Take pellets out of the diet completely and feed some porridge oats instead.

same recommendations given by the two most valued vets in Rome...

 

[rome_italy]

The piggies at TEAS have a bowlful of oats, unlimited grass and hay, a small amount of veg once a day. If they've been in the run on the grass during the day, they don't get any veg. I do feed a few nuggets as a treat. We've never had a piggy with a bladder issue. This pretty much fits in with what Simon has said. All the piggies can be fed the oats.

can you tell me what kind of oats are you talking about? the ones for porridge? we in Italy don't have oats for porridge, but my husband orders from Amazon. UK the ones for porridge. Actually here all kind of cereals are banned from piggies' diet, but I would like to know more about your experience.

 

[lexi468]

Please weigh Midnight daily at the same time and supplement with syringe feed if necessary. it can be VERY deceptive watching a piggy nibble and take that for eating normally. The scales don't lie! Your care in this respect is as vital as any medical care and can really make all the difference in his recovery.
Generally the relief from having the stone out is massive. if it is still sat in the bladder and has not embedded in the bladder or urethral walls, then recovery is usually fairly straight forward unless you are dealing with a bad reaction to GA. it takes about 2-3 days for the body to settle down again after the operation and to start healing.
Contact your vet if there is sudden loss of appetite/continuing loss of weight, apathy (this as an emergency) or if your boy is gnawing the operation scar open.
Give about 1 tablespoon per day of oxbow pellets.

I just noticed he seemed to be in some pain and struggling a bit to poo, so I looked at it and it was VERY mucus-y. Like sticky. I am going to syringe some water and critical care. Is there anything else I should do?

 

[lauraboara]

I was talking to Simon today about bladder stones. He said the best diet to feed is, hay, grass and a small amount of veg. Take pellets out of the diet completely and feed some porridge oats instead.

I think that diet is really important but it is not the only issue and is an oversimplification of what is going on in the calcium vs bladder issue. For example I have a boar who dislikes pellets and has never been interested in them so has put himself on that diet his whole life. However at 5, he developed a stone in his ureter which has been successfully removed under difficult surgery and now tiny stones have formed on the scar. His kidneys are now failing and he is on palliative care. Our water is very, very hard which although I filter it, may be a big factor for us.

I much prefer Wiebke's summary from an older post about bladder issues in general which may be helpful for the OP:-

Guinea pigs are prone to urinary tract problems as a species because they have a naturally alkaline urine ph. This promotes the growth of bacteria and also the build-up of calcium, especially in guinea pigs that are not good drinkers (i.e. whose bladder is not flushed well), have a high calcium diet (including hard water), a genetic disposition of some sort, problems with the calcium absorption (which is a complex, but not yet much researched process in guinea pigs).

What you can do (but it is only so much):
- if you have got a bladder problem piggy, switch from a moderate to a low calcium diet and avoid suspected IC trigger foods like carrots, tomato or fresh grass. See daily veg in our balanced diet thread or this thread here: Low Calcium Diet For Bladder Piggies
- you can help flush the bladder once or twice daily with a UTI/cystitis piggy by syringing as much water as she will take in one session, ideally up to 10 ml, but likely less. Make sure that you piggy has always swallowed before you give more, and never give more than half a syringe in one go (1 adult mouthful is ca. 0.5 ml) and do not force any water into her if she doesn't want to.
- At the onset of an acute bout of UTI or cystitis, you might like to give mildly diuretic veg like cucumber, young dandelions or lettuce in moderate amounts (so you don't cause diarrhea) to help flush the bladder and mitigate the acute symptoms.
- With recurring and chronic bladder issues as well as bladder stone piggies we recommend to additionally support the bladder with vegan glucosamine or glucosamine-based cat food supplements like cystease or cystophan. The bladder has got a natural coating of glucosamine on the inside, but this can be beleaguered by repeated infections or stones.
Some people also swear by barley water, made from the gloopy water you have cooked pearl barley in.

@Wiebke - i hope you don't mind me borrowing your words but I have always gone back to this summary as I think it is good and is also sensitive to the feelings of carers of bladder piggies.

 

[lauraboara]

I just noticed he seemed to be in some pain and struggling a bit to poo, so I looked at it and it was VERY mucus-y. Like sticky. I am going to syringe some water and critical care. Is there anything else I should do?

The mucusy poo suggests his gut is unsettled and he is undereating which is not a surprise after surgery. Syringing water and critical care is really good plan - keep going with that. Also I do think it is odd that the vet gave you no pain meds for the days after the op - that is not what my vet would do. A piggie in pain will not eat normally - can you go back to them to ask for some pain relief / anti-inflammatory? Hope he starts picking up over the day - keep tempting him with favourite herbs and nice hay etc as well as syringe food.

 

[Wiebke]

I just noticed he seemed to be in some pain and struggling a bit to poo, so I looked at it and it was VERY mucus-y. Like sticky. I am going to syringe some water and critical care. Is there anything else I should do?

Just stay off fresh veg until the poo has firmed up and supplement with syringe feed for the time being. Baytril can cause soft poos to diarrhea and complete loss of appetite. If things don't firm up again or your piggy is getting worse instead of better, please contact the clinic.
I would recommend to give a pinch of probiotic. I know that many vets are convinced, but I go by the concept that if it doesn't work, it cannot hurt, either, when a piggy is experiencing issues.

If digestive problems persist even after the end of the course of antibiotics, you may want to invest in a course of fibreplex. Probiotics, Recovery Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

I think that diet is really important but it is not the only issue and is an oversimplification of what is going on in the calcium vs bladder issue. For example I have a boar who dislikes pellets and has never been interested in them so has put himself on that diet his whole life. However at 5, he developed a stone in his ureter which has been successfully removed under difficult surgery and now tiny stones have formed on the scar. His kidneys are now failing and he is on palliative care. Our water is very, very hard which although I filter it, may be a big factor for us.

I much prefer Wiebke's summary from an older post about bladder issues in general which may be helpful for the OP:-

Guinea pigs are prone to urinary tract problems as a species because they have a naturally alkaline urine ph. This promotes the growth of bacteria and also the build-up of calcium, especially in guinea pigs that are not good drinkers (i.e. whose bladder is not flushed well), have a high calcium diet (including hard water), a genetic disposition of some sort, problems with the calcium absorption (which is a complex, but not yet much researched process in guinea pigs).

What you can do (but it is only so much):
- if you have got a bladder problem piggy, switch from a moderate to a low calcium diet and avoid suspected IC trigger foods like carrots, tomato or fresh grass. See daily veg in our balanced diet thread or this thread here: Low Calcium Diet For Bladder Piggies
- you can help flush the bladder once or twice daily with a UTI/cystitis piggy by syringing as much water as she will take in one session, ideally up to 10 ml, but likely less. Make sure that you piggy has always swallowed before you give more, and never give more than half a syringe in one go (1 adult mouthful is ca. 0.5 ml) and do not force any water into her if she doesn't want to.
- At the onset of an acute bout of UTI or cystitis, you might like to give mildly diuretic veg like cucumber, young dandelions or lettuce in moderate amounts (so you don't cause diarrhea) to help flush the bladder and mitigate the acute symptoms.
- With recurring and chronic bladder issues as well as bladder stone piggies we recommend to additionally support the bladder with vegan glucosamine or glucosamine-based cat food supplements like cystease or cystophan. The bladder has got a natural coating of glucosamine on the inside, but this can be beleaguered by repeated infections or stones.
Some people also swear by barley water, made from the gloopy water you have cooked pearl barley in.

@Wiebke - i hope you don't mind me borrowing your words but I have always gone back to this summary as I think it is good and is also sensitive to the feelings of carers of bladder piggies.

Simon deals first hand with so many guinea pigs with bladder issues and advises on diet after bladder stone removal. This is the advice he gives. He says grass and hay are the best things to feed with a small amount of veg. I prefer to take his advice and I'm not sure why my post was insensitive to anyone's feelings.

 

[BossHogg]

Our forum specialists obtain their information from established sources, ie specialist exotic vets. Whilst their information is always first class, the forum stance is always, always, always obtain prompt specialist vet treatment and advice at the earliest opportunity. Ta muchly.

 

[pig in the city]

Excellent advice, l can't add to it except to say don't get too stressed up about it all. Its just bad luck and nothing you have done wrong. I have had a couple of pigs with bladder stones despite them having a low calcium diet/ natural diet, its just a combination of factors that you can't fully control. Good luck

 

[helen105281]

Simon deals first hand with so many guinea pigs with bladder issues and advises on diet after bladder stone removal. This is the advice he gives. He says grass and hay are the best things to feed with a small amount of veg. I prefer to take his advice and I'm not sure why my post was insensitive to anyone's feelings.

He said the same to me for Maud so she has mainly hay with as much grass ad we can grow in the flat and a small selection of veg though she is particularly fussy about veg so doesn't have much.

 

[furryfriends (TEAS)]

He said the same to me for Maud so she has mainly hay with as much grass ad we can grow in the flat and a small selection of veg though she is particularly fussy about veg so doesn't have much.

I do find it worrying how grass seems to be viewed as a problem food, by many members of this forum. It is the most natural food for them. It is something their bodies are designed to eat. I know people mention about urine looking blood stained after eating grass, but eating natural vegetation does colour the urine and I feel sure that this is what is being seen. My rabbits spend all day outside eating vegetation and their urine is very red. Neither has blood in the urine! Simon really advocates a mainly hay and grass diet and says the nuggets are the biggest culprit for causing bladder issues.

 

[BossHogg]

My rabbits spend 24/7 in the garden during the summer, their urine is always orangy brown, even though they drink plenty of water, their main diet is grass even though they have fresh veg and a small bowl of nuggets.

 

[lexi468]

Thanks for all the replies guys!
So the vet said that his stitches will fall out on their own, but they haven't and they're beginning to smell. It's been about 12 days now, is it safe to cut them out?

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

If they are dissolvable stitches there should be no need to cut them out. Also they should not be smelling so I would take him back to the vets.

 

[lexi468]

They're not dissolvable, he said they would fall out on their own, which I didn't understand.

 

[Pound Shilling & Pig]

They're not dissolvable, he said they would fall out on their own, which I didn't understand.

That is very odd. in my experience stitches are either of a type that dissolve or of a type that have to be removed. If they are non dissolvable and left in too long there is a risk of them causing infection. So I would take him back to have them removed and the wound checked.