Bladder Stone Surgery Delay

[Free Ranger]

The opioids stone them out - it's like they drift in and out of reality. It's not a gradual improvement - it's like - "Oh, he's eating! He's gonna be OK!" and then "oh no, he's completely still " If he's moved a bit that's a good sign. If he's eating a bit that's also good. It sounds completely normal for an opioid although it is heartbreaking to see. If he's asleep it's probably better for him. But do try not to get any bits in the wound - I tried to keep George on Fleece but with a small pile of hay he couldn't flop onto. Well done Odi x

 

[Katie A]

The opioids stone them out - it's like they drift in and out of reality. It's not a gradual improvement - it's like - "Oh, he's eating! He's gonna be OK!" and then "oh no, he's completely still " If he's moved a bit that's a good sign. If he's eating a bit that's also good. It sounds completely normal for an opioid although it is heartbreaking to see. If he's asleep it's probably better for him. But do try not to get any bits in the wound - I tried to keep George on Fleece but with a small pile of hay he couldn't flop onto. Well done Odi x

Ooooh thats a good point about keeping his wound out of hay. I'll move the pile so he can't lay in it. I did just get his antibiotics and pain meds in him. Offered him some water in a syringe and he took about 1 ml then kept hiding his head and giving a little whine so I stopped. He's at least sitting up now and not totally lifeless. I gave him some flower heads out of the hay and he did eat one. I'll wait about an hour for the pain meds to kick in and offer some more. I might make up some critical care just to offer but not sure how much I should force if he's not up to it? Or force it anyway?

 

[Katie A]

Making some progress! He ate a tiny amount of fresh wheat grass and nibbled some lettuce. He also happily accepted 2 ml of critical care but refused more after that. He's interested in hay but not eating it yet. Letting him rest for a bit. Him and Flynn are both napping heavily right now.

Ooooh thats a good point about keeping his wound out of hay. I'll move the pile so he can't lay in it. I did just get his antibiotics and pain meds in him. Offered him some water in a syringe and he took about 1 ml then kept hiding his head and giving a little whine so I stopped. He's at least sitting up now and not totally lifeless. I gave him some flower heads out of the hay and he did eat one. I'll wait about an hour for the pain meds to kick in and offer some more. I might make up some critical care just to offer but not sure how much I should force if he's not up to it? Or force it anyway?

 

[piggieminder]

Pleased to hear he is making some progress. I hope you managed to get some sleep.

 

[Katie A]

Thanks! He seems a bit better this morning. He's moving around a bit and even gave me a bit of a chase when I was trying to get him for his medications. He's also starting to eat a little bit of hay again. The only veggies he really wants right now are cucumbers.

I syringe him a little bit of water but he didn't really want it. I did get 6 ml of critical care in him.

Pleased to hear he is making some progress. I hope you managed to get some sleep.

 

[Free Ranger]

Oh well done Odi - I hope you're still improving. Don't worry too much about the liquids - you can always make his CC a bit runnier. Cucumbers are very moist.
Has he started pooping? There will have been a pause in proceedings because of the surgery but once he starts pooping again it's a good sign.

 

[Wheekallweek]

Glad he's still getting better x

 

[Katie A]

He has seemed to have perked up a good bit in the last few hours. Appetite is still not super strong though. He's interested in food, takes a few nibbles and leaves the rest. He does keep getting interested in hay though and is eating tiny amounts.

I was doing well with syringe feeding earlier today. Got around 25 ml in him. However, just tried about an hour ago and only managed 3 ml. He's getting some personality back and just kept knocking my hand away with his head. Then would jump off my lap (sitting on the bathroom floor) and just walk off to do his own thing. So I guess that's a good sign? His weight is the same as it was before surgery. He's peeing and pooping.... I'll keep trying with the critical care. Hopefully tomorrow his appetite will be even better!

Oh well done Odi - I hope you're still improving. Don't worry too much about the liquids - you can always make his CC a bit runnier. Cucumbers are very moist.
Has he started pooping? There will have been a pause in proceedings because of the surgery but once he starts pooping again it's a good sign.

 

[Free Ranger]

If he's peeing and pooping and he's the same weight that's great
Hopefully he's through the worst and can now get on with just piggin' around!
I put some CC on a plate for George overnight because he was split from his ladies and in the mornings he'd eaten some so it might be worth a try - although if he's in with a friend he won't get a look in!

 

[Katie A]

Update! Today was a much better day for him. He enthusiastically ate veggies for breakfast and lunch and every time I go check on him he's munching on hay. He's had enough of the syringe feeding and puts up a major fight every time I try but thankfully his appetite seems to be making a come back.

So now to work on long term diet changes! I'm cutting out carrots, kale, spring mix, and parsley. Also going lighter on the romaine.... I actually think I might have realized a major mistake I made. I had been home growing lettuces and herbs and kale and other greens for them using a hydroponic system and the plant food that came with it contains calcium! I never even thought to check that in plant food. Thought I was giving healthier food but was the exact opposite.

If he's peeing and pooping and he's the same weight that's great
Hopefully he's through the worst and can now get on with just piggin' around!
I put some CC on a plate for George overnight because he was split from his ladies and in the mornings he'd eaten some so it might be worth a try - although if he's in with a friend he won't get a look in!

 

[Free Ranger]

It's a really tricky one to deal with. We use low calcium water and limited pellets (although not 'no pellets' or 'special pellets') because these will provide more Ca than even high Ca veg (being a dried food) but there are no guarantees. George ate pretty much what he wanted for most of his life - and lots of it as he was a hefty 1.4kilo for a long time, and for 5 1/2 years didn't have any trouble at all. Then we had a heatwave and he got a stone in his penis (actually we now know that it accumulated under the foreskin) which the vet squeezed out. Then he got another a few months later in his bladder at the same time as an infection... that was October. It took until December to be sure the infection was gone - then I booked in the surgery but was worried about his age. Jan he had it removed. By Feb he'd got another whopper. March another UTI which we're now getting on top of again. But with the best will in the world George is an old boy now. Finally I can tell one end from the other in the dark because the fur round his lips is turning white! If he went all his life with no stones and now has thrown another giant one within a month it's not just going to be the diet - it's something more with his metabolism. I worried about his kidneys failing... but then he has no stones in his kidneys or the little tubes that run down to the bladder. We think George's stones are Calcium carbonate (like limescale) and personally I think that George's urine has somehow changed meaning these are much more likely to form. George'e pee is slightly more alkaline than my girls (nearly 5 and nearly 4 - both on the same diet as George, no sign of stones) and I'm suspecting that... but why I don't know.

If they get an infection the detritus can form a 'nexus' - something which Calcium crystals can solidify around. But UTI doesn't always mean a stone - I've had quite a few pigs with UTI and no stones at all. If the urine is concentrated it increases the chance of stones but some pigs drink very little and they stay stone-free. Big drinkers can still get stones. George has been through some phases of guzzling loads of water - at one point he only used to eat in the evening if I sat next to him with a syringe and offered it. He'd go 15ml easily. But this could be that the stone he was carrying (or the UTI when he had it) somehow triggered his thirst... maybe nature's way of trying to flush things through. My vet says 'keep everything flushing through' so we got more water bottles and positioned them near food bowls and especially near bedroom areas because we forget that they eat during the night and ideally will drink too. We can try our best but sometimes our pig is just unlucky - or should I say lucky, because he had an owner who could afford to buy him a surgery for relief. Yes, Odi is a lucky little fellow x

 

[Katie A]

It's a really tricky one to deal with. We use low calcium water and limited pellets (although not 'no pellets' or 'special pellets') because these will provide more Ca than even high Ca veg (being a dried food) but there are no guarantees. George ate pretty much what he wanted for most of his life - and lots of it as he was a hefty 1.4kilo for a long time, and for 5 1/2 years didn't have any trouble at all. Then we had a heatwave and he got a stone in his penis (actually we now know that it accumulated under the foreskin) which the vet squeezed out. Then he got another a few months later in his bladder at the same time as an infection... that was October. It took until December to be sure the infection was gone - then I booked in the surgery but was worried about his age. Jan he had it removed. By Feb he'd got another whopper. March another UTI which we're now getting on top of again. But with the best will in the world George is an old boy now. Finally I can tell one end from the other in the dark because the fur round his lips is turning white! If he went all his life with no stones and now has thrown another giant one within a month it's not just going to be the diet - it's something more with his metabolism. I worried about his kidneys failing... but then he has no stones in his kidneys or the little tubes that run down to the bladder. We think George's stones are Calcium carbonate (like limescale) and personally I think that George's urine has somehow changed meaning these are much more likely to form. George'e pee is slightly more alkaline than my girls (nearly 5 and nearly 4 - both on the same diet as George, no sign of stones) and I'm suspecting that... but why I don't know.

If they get an infection the detritus can form a 'nexus' - something which Calcium crystals can solidify around. But UTI doesn't always mean a stone - I've had quite a few pigs with UTI and no stones at all. If the urine is concentrated it increases the chance of stones but some pigs drink very little and they stay stone-free. Big drinkers can still get stones. George has been through some phases of guzzling loads of water - at one point he only used to eat in the evening if I sat next to him with a syringe and offered it. He'd go 15ml easily. But this could be that the stone he was carrying (or the UTI when he had it) somehow triggered his thirst... maybe nature's way of trying to flush things through. My vet says 'keep everything flushing through' so we got more water bottles and positioned them near food bowls and especially near bedroom areas because we forget that they eat during the night and ideally will drink too. We can try our best but sometimes our pig is just unlucky - or should I say lucky, because he had an owner who could afford to buy him a surgery for relief. Yes, Odi is a lucky little fellow x

Whew thats a lot of stones for poor little George! Hmm yeah, sounds like it might not be directly diet related in his case. I think that infection thing with the crystals is what my vet was trying to explain to me. He thinks maybe Odi had an infection at some point and that might have been what started the stone. But guess you never really know for sure. I saw like 6 spots of calcium deposit on the fleece this morning. I know it is probably too early for any diet changes to be working but considering cutting way back on romaine to see if he might be one of the pigs that have issues with it. Thats just hard because they love romaine and only tolerate red and green leaf....I hope George starts feeling better soon with all the stones and UTIs!

 

[Katie A]

Oh, I did try Selective Naturals grain free pellets and my boys looked at them like they aren't a food. lol. I tried 3 times and they won't even take one from my fingers so I don't think I'll have any luck with those. Can i still give their normal Oxbow pellets (only ones they will eat)? I'll probably just start giving a little less than 1 tablespoon.

 

[Piggies&buns]

Romaine lettuce is not a factor in stone formation. A good watery diet is needed to keep the bladder flushing through.

All pellets contain more calcium than kale (highest calcium veg) even the low calcium pellets so it doesn’t matter which ones you feed as long as you stick to one tablespoon per pig per day. You can feed less! My boys only get pellets a few times a week.

 

[Katie A]

Romaine lettuce is not a factor in stone formation. A good watery diet is needed to keep the bladder flushing through.

All pellets contain more calcium than kale (highest calcium veg) even the low calcium pellets so it doesn’t matter which ones you feed as long as you stick to one tablespoon per pig per day. You can feed less! My boys only get pellets a few times a week.

Whew okay, good to both! Thank you so much!

 

[Katie A]

Hello! I'm following up on my post after a few months because I need some diet advice. Just a recap, my boy had surgery to remove a bladder stone a few months ago. His recovery was great with zero complications. I'm just worried because I still have daily powdery spots in the cage. I'm not sure if it's normal to always have some or if it means they are still getting too much calcium?

I greatly reduced the high calcium veggies. They are only eating red and green leaf lettuce, some romaine, celery, cucumber, b ell pepper, Cilantro and some very occasional fruit.

They get 1 cup of veggies a day. Lettuce everyday and the rest rotated.

They get filtered water and a tad less than 1 tablespoon Oxbow pellets per day.

And of course plenty of Timothy and orchard grass hay.

 

[Free Ranger]

I would regard that as pretty normal. Try and see how much is peed for that amount too... if he pees like a tap and just leaves a little powder you're fine. If it's that much from a few dribs it'll be more concentrated. A good flow is the ideal - keep everything flushing through! When my old lad George was carrying a huge stone his pee was actually almost clear - probably because the stone was mopping it all up! Currently my little sow is peeing more calcium than that and I know she doesn't have any stony issues.

I'm so glad he made it through his surgery and recovered OK x

 

[Katie A]

I would regard that as pretty normal. Try and see how much is peed for that amount too... if he pees like a tap and just leaves a little powder you're fine. If it's that much from a few dribs it'll be more concentrated. A good flow is the ideal - keep everything flushing through! When my old lad George was carrying a huge stone his pee was actually almost clear - probably because the stone was mopping it all up! Currently my little sow is peeing more calcium than that and I know she doesn't have any stony issues.

I'm so glad he made it through his surgery and recovered OK x

Huh, that is interesting! Okay, I will definitely try and make sure it from a large amount of urine and not a small amount. Thank you very much!

 

[Piggiecassandchewie]

Hello! I'm following up on my post after a few months because I need some diet advice. Just a recap, my boy had surgery to remove a bladder stone a few months ago. His recovery was great with zero complications. I'm just worried because I still have daily powdery spots in the cage. I'm not sure if it's normal to always have some or if it means they are still getting too much calcium?

I greatly reduced the high calcium veggies. They are only eating red and green leaf lettuce, some romaine, celery, cucumber, b ell pepper, Cilantro and some very occasional fruit.

They get 1 cup of veggies a day. Lettuce everyday and the rest rotated.

They get filtered water and a tad less than 1 tablespoon Oxbow pellets per day.

And of course plenty of Timothy and orchard grass hay.

Hello! I'm following up on my post after a few months because I need some diet advice. Just a recap, my boy had surgery to remove a bladder stone a few months ago. His recovery was great with zero complications. I'm just worried because I still have daily powdery spots in the cage. I'm not sure if it's normal to always have some or if it means they are still getting too much calcium?

I greatly reduced the high calcium veggies. They are only eating red and green leaf lettuce, some romaine, celery, cucumber, b ell pepper, Cilantro and some very occasional fruit.

They get 1 cup of veggies a day. Lettuce everyday and the rest rotated.

They get filtered water and a tad less than 1 tablespoon Oxbow pellets per day.

And of course plenty of Timothy and orchard grass hay.

I recommend maybe trying Sherwood pet health pellets, I recently switch my boy to those since they have no fillers and soy. Also, I’m not sure if you follow Saskia and the Los Angeles Guinea Pig Rescue or have heard of her, but she’s seen that it’s possible stones may even be hereditary like in humans. That even low-calcium diet piggies still develop stones, it can sometimes almost be inevitable. With the change in diet I recommend trying the Sherwood urinary cranberry tablets, a heads up on those they are a little tough for a pig to chew on so I recommend crushing them and mixing with water. 1ml per tablet! Let me know if you try it!

 

[Katie A]

I recommend maybe trying Sherwood pet health pellets, I recently switch my boy to those since they have no fillers and soy. Also, I’m not sure if you follow Saskia and the Los Angeles Guinea Pig Rescue or have heard of her, but she’s seen that it’s possible stones may even be hereditary like in humans. That even low-calcium diet piggies still develop stones, it can sometimes almost be inevitable. With the change in diet I recommend trying the Sherwood urinary cranberry tablets, a heads up on those they are a little tough for a pig to chew on so I recommend crushing them and mixing with water. 1ml per tablet! Let me know if you try it!

Thank you very much for the suggestions! I have tried switching them to a grain free pellet (Selective naturals I think was the name) but they would not have it and questioned if it was actually a food I was offering them. lol. They won't eat any pellets but Oxbow Garden Select. Hmm I might give the tablets a try though! I'm not sure what else to do. Every single day I have at least 2 calcium spots in the cage which just seems excessive. :/

And yep, I've heard of the Los Angeles Guinea pig rescue. She does put out some really informative videos!

 

[Piggiecassandchewie]

Thank you very much for the suggestions! I have tried switching them to a grain free pellet (Selective naturals I think was the name) but they would not have it and questioned if it was actually a food I was offering them. lol. They won't eat any pellets but Oxbow Garden Select. Hmm I might give the tablets a try though! I'm not sure what else to do. Every single day I have at least 2 calcium spots in the cage which just seems excessive. :/

And yep, I've heard of the Los Angeles Guinea pig rescue. She does put out some really informative videos!

What I’m doing right now is weening my pig onto them so mixing them with his current pellets until he gets used to the new ones it’s all baby steps . Similar to what the other person said, I believe some calcium spots are okay, it seems as though you’re doing everything that you can, you’re doing good pig mama! Definitely give the tablets a try, they sell them on Amazon and my boy absolutely loves taking them through the syringe, it took awhile but he loves the flavor now. It’s all baby steps and I know your babies appreciate everything you’re doing.

 

[Katie A]

What I’m doing right now is weening my pig onto them so mixing them with his current pellets until he gets used to the new ones it’s all baby steps . Similar to what the other person said, I believe some calcium spots are okay, it seems as though you’re doing everything that you can, you’re doing good pig mama! Definitely give the tablets a try, they sell them on Amazon and my boy absolutely loves taking them through the syringe, it took awhile but he loves the flavor now. It’s all baby steps and I know your babies appreciate everything you’re doing.

Awww, thank you! I appreciate that! Just so scared of him getting another stone and having to go through that risky surgery again. I think I will give the grain free pellets another try and this time try the weening in process. I'll also grab some of those tablets and see if that helps any.

 

[Piggiecassandchewie]

Awww, thank you! I appreciate that! Just so scared of him getting another stone and having to go through that risky surgery again. I think I will give the grain free pellets another try and this time try the weening in process. I'll also grab some of those tablets and see if that helps any.

It’s completely understandable but you’re doing what you can I hope it works out with the pellets!