Bladder Stone Surgery

[laurenspiggies]

I recently rescued two piggies about four months ago. My boar has produced a bladder stone, that we tried to flush out with fluids, but that wasn't successful. It's hard to say when the bladder stone showed up because he had what the emergency vet believed was a UTI, and was given bactrim—which stopped the blood in his urine. It had almost been a month, and Mookie, my boar, was about to be taken off his bactrim, when blood showed up in his urine again (which brings us to where we are now). His removal surgery is scheduled for this Wednesday, and understanding that the surgery is very invasive, on such a little piggy, I have decided to not go through with another surgery if a stone is to show up post op.
I trust my vet a lot, she is the best exotic vet in my area, and as of now she has Mookie on a very low calcium diet with ABs and pain meds. I have completely cut out his oxbow pellets because they're very calcium rich and he wasn't really interested in them in the first place. He's currently eating Oxbow organic hay, but I am visiting the store today to get him the orchard hay (because it's lowest in calcium).
To conclude, I was just curious if any piggie lovers have been successful with stopping the production of stones after removal or slowing down the rate of their production. Please share your experiments and tips, they're all so very appreciated! Thanks everyone!

 

[Adelle]

It sounds like you are doing all you can for him. I will tag @TAN who I'm sure has previous experience with a piggy that had several bladder ops.

The only thing i could add is to maybe filter his water too, if you live in a hard water area? I have a pig with a calcium crystal issue, she is also on low calcium veg, no pellets and filtered water. Although she is on strict timothy hay, as i was advised this was the lowest in calcium.

Here is a link to general post op care:
Tips For Post-operative Care

Hopefully with the precautions you are taking, another stone wont form- your vet sounds great so he is in good hands!

All the best

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome!

Guinea pigs are a species with very alkaline urine, so urinary tract problems from infections to stones are sadly very common. In a few cases, it can sadly happen that even with the best of care stones come back within weeks. In these cases (thankfully not the majority), it is more likely to assume that you are up against factors that we cannot control via diet and the currently available medication.
There are some contributing factors. Not all factors need apply, and it can be very difficult to determine what is playing into every single case. Calcium absorption in guinea pigs is a complex process and not yet much researched process.
- genetic disposition
- bad drinker (i.e. not flushing out the bladder regularly, which can lead to a build up of bacteria, calcium and minerals in the bladder over time)
- high calcium diet/calcium ratio in the diet is wrong
- something changes or goes wrong in the calcium absorption process

What you can do for bladder piggies:
Diet:
- Encourage your boy to drink more in go in order to produce one larger pee each day. This can be through syringe feeding water, but you have to be very careful not to force any water down against the piggy's will and to never syringe more than your piggy is willing to drink from a syringe. Never give more than 0.3 ml (one mouthful) at any time to prevent things from going down the wrong way and always wait for your piggy to swallow the previous lot. It is often rather unlikely that you can manage as much as 5-10 ml in one session, but any little can help towards flushing the bladder a bit better once daily. You could try to flavour the syringe water with a bit of cucumber juice etc. if that goes down better.
- filter your water irrespective of whether you are in a hard water area or not. It is often not just calcium, but also minerals that can build up. This can really make a difference in repeated bladder issue piggies, as I have found out myself.
- Low calcium veg diet. You still need to include a strip of spring greens daily, as magnesium is unfortunately coupled with higher calcium veg for a long term balanced diet. The other cabbages are stronger.
@helen105281 may help you with the daily diet she uses for her bladder issue piggies; she can also help you with pellet recommendations, but it would help us if you please added your country, as available brands vary enormously across the world!)
Here is more information: Low Calcium Diet For Bladder Piggies
- Pellets: if you can't get any low calcium pellets, either reduce the amount massively or leave them out completely. You will have to compensate with adding more vitamin C to your veg diet, like an extra sprig of coriander/cilantro.

Medication and supplements:
- Support the natural glucosamine coat of the bladder walls by giving vegan/vegetarian glucosamine or a glucosamine-based cat food supplement like cystease/cystophan or similar. This is not a medication, but you may want to run it past your vet. Many vegs will prescribe it for bladder piggies now.
- some vets are also prescribing potassium citrate for bladder stone piggies to help neutralise the urine and prevent/slow down the formation of another stone.
- you are already on the right antibiotic that is most recommended for bladder piggies. Sulfamethoxazole trimethoprim is available as bactrim, septrin or new as sulfatrim in various countries.
- counter the effect of any antibiotic on the gut bacteria necessary for the digestive process with a pinch of a probiotic 1-2 hours after the antibiotic. Avipro plus is the one without any added calcium.

I wish you all the best with the operation! You have already been given our post-op care tips.
I hope that this will help you.

 

[helen105281]

I will be on at lunch with my diet recommendations.

 

[DM030819]

My boy had 2 bladder stone surgeries within 9 months of each other, and he's been okay for the past 2 years.

The advice from Wiebke is fantastic, there's not really anything I can add

We believe my boy suffers through genetics and also lack of drinking. So, getting water into them is so important. My boy has his urine tested each time we see the vet (every 3 months) and we've managed to increase his water intake by getting him to drink water and orange, and also by wetting all of his veg. His urine has been brilliant the past few times.

 

[helen105281]

Ok I feed basically the veg in the link that Wiebke has given. Mine have coriander, cucumber, celery, spring greens, green beans and peppers and it is the veg that was recommended to me for my pig with bladder issues.

For pellets I try where possible to feed grainless ones as grains can cause inflammation. Also the grainless pellets tend to have much more natural ingredients. Sadly I have heard today that Vitakraft emotion which was my favourite is being discontinued. It is possible they may rebrand it in the coming months but we are not sure. I have just heard this on the piggy grapevine though but I am being kept updated.

My other 2 recommendations are:

Bunny GuineaPigDream BASIC | Free P&P on orders £29+ at zooplus!

JR Farm Grainless Complete Guinea Pig | Free P&P £29+ at zooplus!

I have also tried these:
Naturals Meadow Menu Guinea Pig 2kg on Sale | Free UK Delivery

I am unsure of their suitability for a bladder pig though.

 

[laurenspiggies]

It sounds like you are doing all you can for him. I will tag @TAN who I'm sure has previous experience with a piggy that had several bladder ops.

The only thing i could add is to maybe filter his water too, if you live in a hard water area? I have a pig with a calcium crystal issue, she is also on low calcium veg, no pellets and filtered water. Although she is on strict timothy hay, as i was advised this was the lowest in calcium.

Here is a link to general post op care:
Tips For Post-operative Care

Hopefully with the precautions you are taking, another stone wont form- your vet sounds great so he is in good hands!

All the best

Thank you so much, as of now he is eating organic timothy hay, and we picked him up some purified water!

 

[laurenspiggies]

Hi and welcome!

Guinea pigs are a species with very alkaline urine, so urinary tract problems from infections to stones are sadly very common. In a few cases, it can sadly happen that even with the best of care stones come back within weeks. In these cases (thankfully not the majority), it is more likely to assume that you are up against factors that we cannot control via diet and the currently available medication.
There are some contributing factors. Not all factors need apply, and it can be very difficult to determine what is playing into every single case. Calcium absorption in guinea pigs is a complex process and not yet much researched process.
- genetic disposition
- bad drinker (i.e. not flushing out the bladder regularly, which can lead to a build up of bacteria, calcium and minerals in the bladder over time)
- high calcium diet/calcium ratio in the diet is wrong
- something changes or goes wrong in the calcium absorption process

What you can do for bladder piggies:
Diet:
- Encourage your boy to drink more in go in order to produce one larger pee each day. This can be through syringe feeding water, but you have to be very careful not to force any water down against the piggy's will and to never syringe more than your piggy is willing to drink from a syringe. Never give more than 0.3 ml (one mouthful) at any time to prevent things from going down the wrong way and always wait for your piggy to swallow the previous lot. It is often rather unlikely that you can manage as much as 5-10 ml in one session, but any little can help towards flushing the bladder a bit better once daily. You could try to flavour the syringe water with a bit of cucumber juice etc. if that goes down better.
- filter your water irrespective of whether you are in a hard water area or not. It is often not just calcium, but also minerals that can build up. This can really make a difference in repeated bladder issue piggies, as I have found out myself.
- Low calcium veg diet. You still need to include a strip of spring greens daily, as magnesium is unfortunately coupled with higher calcium veg for a long term balanced diet. The other cabbages are stronger.
@helen105281 may help you with the daily diet she uses for her bladder issue piggies; she can also help you with pellet recommendations, but it would help us if you please added your country, as available brands vary enormously across the world!)
Here is more information: Low Calcium Diet For Bladder Piggies
- Pellets: if you can't get any low calcium pellets, either reduce the amount massively or leave them out completely. You will have to compensate with adding more vitamin C to your veg diet, like an extra sprig of coriander/cilantro.

Medication and supplements:
- Support the natural glucosamine coat of the bladder walls by giving vegan/vegetarian glucosamine or a glucosamine-based cat food supplement like cystease/cystophan or similar. This is not a medication, but you may want to run it past your vet. Many vegs will prescribe it for bladder piggies now.
- some vets are also prescribing potassium citrate for bladder stone piggies to help neutralise the urine and prevent/slow down the formation of another stone.
- you are already on the right antibiotic that is most recommended for bladder piggies. Sulfamethoxazole trimethoprim is available as bactrim, septrin or new as sulfatrim in various countries.
- counter the effect of any antibiotic on the gut bacteria necessary for the digestive process with a pinch of a probiotic 1-2 hours after the antibiotic. Avipro plus is the one without any added calcium.

I wish you all the best with the operation! You have already been given our post-op care tips.
I hope that this will help you.

Thank you so much for all the post op and diet tips! I'll talk to my vet about getting him the medications, you're wonderful Best wishes to you and your piggies!

 

[laurenspiggies]

My boy had 2 bladder stone surgeries within 9 months of each other, and he's been okay for the past 2 years.

The advice from Wiebke is fantastic, there's not really anything I can add

We believe my boy suffers through genetics and also lack of drinking. So, getting water into them is so important. My boy has his urine tested each time we see the vet (every 3 months) and we've managed to increase his water intake by getting him to drink water and orange, and also by wetting all of his veg. His urine has been brilliant the past few times.

Yes, I've dramatically increased my boars water intake and it seems to be helping him. Wetting all his veggies is a great idea thank you so much! Best wishes to you and your boy!

 

[laurenspiggies]

Ok I feed basically the veg in the link that Wiebke has given. Mine have coriander, cucumber, celery, spring greens, green beans and peppers and it is the veg that was recommended to me for my pig with bladder issues.

For pellets I try where possible to feed grainless ones as grains can cause inflammation. Also the grainless pellets tend to have much more natural ingredients. Sadly I have heard today that Vitakraft emotion which was my favourite is being discontinued. It is possible they may rebrand it in the coming months but we are not sure. I have just heard this on the piggy grapevine though but I am being kept updated.

My other 2 recommendations are:

Bunny GuineaPigDream BASIC | Free P&P on orders £29+ at zooplus!

JR Farm Grainless Complete Guinea Pig | Free P&P £29+ at zooplus!

I have also tried these:
Naturals Meadow Menu Guinea Pig 2kg on Sale | Free UK Delivery

I am unsure of their suitability for a bladder pig though.

Thank you for the response! I'll try and get my hands on the Vitakraft pellets—so unfortunate that they're being discontinued!

 

[helen105281]

It is the Vitakraft emotion prebiotic ones but only Zooplus sold them in the UK sadly and they are no longer stocking them. I would try JR farm or Bunny instead.

 

[TAN]

Hi Bumble has had 4 bladder stone ops (and two to remove cancerous lumps) and is still here - he h [email protected] been known to produce a stone within 10 days of having an op to remove the previous ones.
Luckily I have a fantastic exotics specialist who keeps pigs herself.She has put Bumble on a human medicine called moduretic which thanks to a recipe she got from the states she has been able to make up for piggy consumption as this has previously been difficult to do - he is on 0.4ml of this twice a day coupled with 0.2ml potassium citrate twice a day - he has also been put on a human homeopathic remedy called calcorea carbonica which is made by various companies but I use Nelsons - my vet has previously had to operate on a baby tortoise that despite having two operations to remove bladder stones made a third lot in quick succession ,so she spoke to an expert homeopath and they put the baby tortoise on this and it seemed to sort him out - Bumble is now on two of these tablets twice a day ( as they tend to shatter and you loose half of them before you have crushed them ) along with filtered water,syringe feeding him extra water,cystease/ cystophan for cats in his water with a bit of cranberry juice - he is fed low calcium veg and my vet told me to put him on a specialist low calcium pellet specially formulated for piggies with urinary tract problems - Vetcare Multimodal Food for Guinea pigs which you buy online from VET UK - All these medications only cost a few pounds and fingers crossed he seems to be ok and was 5 last week.
My vet is happy to talk / email info over to your vet (she is an exotic referrals specialist - she has over 28 pets including skunks and won a Bronze medal for Great Britain in the dog agility world championships in Helsinki where she was and is the kennel clubs official team vet - so she knows her stuff) -
Her name is Rachel Mowbray at Vale Vets in Dursley (you can google her profile ) tel 01453542092 or email [email protected]
Good luck with your piggy.

 

[laurenspiggies]

Hi Bumble has had 4 bladder stone ops (and two to remove cancerous lumps) and is still here - he h [email protected] been known to produce a stone within 10 days of having an op to remove the previous ones.
Luckily I have a fantastic exotics specialist who keeps pigs herself.She has put Bumble on a human medicine called moduretic which thanks to a recipe she got from the states she has been able to make up for piggy consumption as this has previously been difficult to do - he is on 0.4ml of this twice a day coupled with 0.2ml potassium citrate twice a day - he has also been put on a human homeopathic remedy called calcorea carbonica which is made by various companies but I use Nelsons - my vet has previously had to operate on a baby tortoise that despite having two operations to remove bladder stones made a third lot in quick succession ,so she spoke to an expert homeopath and they put the baby tortoise on this and it seemed to sort him out - Bumble is now on two of these tablets twice a day ( as they tend to shatter and you loose half of them before you have crushed them ) along with filtered water,syringe feeding him extra water,cystease/ cystophan for cats in his water with a bit of cranberry juice - he is fed low calcium veg and my vet told me to put him on a specialist low calcium pellet specially formulated for piggies with urinary tract problems - Vetcare Multimodal Food for Guinea pigs which you buy online from VET UK - All these medications only cost a few pounds and fingers crossed he seems to be ok and was 5 last week.
My vet is happy to talk / email info over to your vet (she is an exotic referrals specialist - she has over 28 pets including skunks and won a Bronze medal for Great Britain in the dog agility world championships in Helsinki where she was and is the kennel clubs official team vet - so she knows her stuff) -
Her name is Rachel Mowbray at Vale Vets in Dursley (you can google her profile ) tel 01453542092 or email [email protected]
Good luck with your piggy.

Yes, I have began to syringe feed my boar extra water as of this morning. Your vet sounds wonderful! I'll have my vet contact her Best wishes to you and your piggies!

 

[Piratethepig]

I recently rescued two piggies about four months ago. My boar has produced a bladder stone, that we tried to flush out with fluids, but that wasn't successful. It's hard to say when the bladder stone showed up because he had what the emergency vet believed was a UTI, and was given bactrim—which stopped the blood in his urine. It had almost been a month, and Mookie, my boar, was about to be taken off his bactrim, when blood showed up in his urine again (which brings us to where we are now). His removal surgery is scheduled for this Wednesday, and understanding that the surgery is very invasive, on such a little piggy, I have decided to not go through with another surgery if a stone is to show up post op.
I trust my vet a lot, she is the best exotic vet in my area, and as of now she has Mookie on a very low calcium diet with ABs and pain meds. I have completely cut out his oxbow pellets because they're very calcium rich and he wasn't really interested in them in the first place. He's currently eating Oxbow organic hay, but I am visiting the store today to get him the orchard hay (because it's lowest in calcium).
To conclude, I was just curious if any piggie lovers have been successful with stopping the production of stones after removal or slowing down the rate of their production. Please share your experiments and tips, they're all so very appreciated! Thanks everyone!

I had a 7 and half year old boar who I had from 6 weeks. He produced a bladder stone and when it came to the decision of either pts or operate I decided to operate. I thought if I don't give him the chance I'll never forgive myself. The operation cost £140 and the vet removed the stone successfully. We brought Rocky home the same day and had almost another year with him before he was taken by bloat xx