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Bladder stone

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bo.jangles

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On Wednesday last week, I noticed that my piggy was squeaking when he urinated. I took him to the vet that ay who gave him two injections, one was an anti inflammatory and one antibiotic. The vet said that he had a bladder infection and that he couldn’t feel any stones in his bladder at all. We were asked to bring him in again the next day to check on him and give him another set of injections.

Took him back again on Thursday, and exactly the same - two injections and had to go back the other day. On the Friday, the vet gave him his set of injections and then said that we could now continue on oral antibiotics - 0.1ml of baytril twice daily, to start on Saturday evening.

On Saturday afternoon, William started passing blood with his urine, which panicked me so much, so we took him to the emergency vet, who again felt for stones and said he couldn’t feel any. The vet said to carry on with the antibiotics, but also gave William an injection of metacam and gave us oral metacam to take home with us (2 drops daily starting Sunday evening). He also said that if there was no improvement then we should look at having an ultrasound or x-ray done on Monday morning.

The whole time so far, William had been so lethargic, he was still very obviously in pain when he urinated and he was off his food - he was eating, but nothing like the healthy appetite that he usually has. I had also been giving William a pro-biotic as he was having antibiotics.
On Monday, there was no change, so I phoned my vet who said they would see him for an xray but they wanted to sedate him. I know I probably panicked here but I wasn’t happy with him being sedated if there was another option, so I phoned another vet further away who had been recommended to me. I spoke to them at length about what had happened so far and what was needed now - I preferred the options of wither an x-ray while William was conscious or an ultrasound. They agreed to see William as a referral, so I liaised with my vet as well to get William’s notes over to the new vets. They then phoned back to say they could see him in an hour, so I dashed out to get to them. They were about 15 miles away and I don’t drive and every single train was cancelled so I ended up just hopping into a taxi to get there.

When we got there, the vet was lovely. She fully examined him again and said that she couldn’t feel a stone, she then took him away for the x-ray and said they’d phone when they’d done it. I was in the middle of nowhere and wasn’t expecting to have to leave him, so I just wondered in the snow for a while. About half an hour later, the vet phoned to say that they had found a stone and that three vets had looked at it and all agreed that it wouldn’t be passed and as such would need an operation to remove it. She asked if I wanted them to do it straight away or did I need to think about it. I gave the go ahead to do it straight away, I didn’t feel it was fair to leave him in pain for any longer then he had to be.
About an hour after this, it was about 12.15, the vet called again to say that the operation had gone fine, they had removed what she called a rather large stone for a guinea pig, and that he was waking up. She said that I could collect him at about 3pm.

I went back in at about 2.40 so that I could see how he was, and I was quite happy to wait for him. They then said that he hadn’t eaten anything yet so he couldn’t go home for a few hours. I sat and waited for him, and at about half past four, they said that whilst he still wasn’t eating, they were happy for him to go home as the environment may be stressing him out and causing him not to eat. The nurse said she’d been trying to syringe feed him water but he was just dribbling it out again. She also went through all of the discharge information with me.

When we got home, I made up some Science recovery, and syringe fed him some of this and some water - he took this fine with no dribbling or anything. I also offered his water bottle and he drank a little from this. I also gave him his antibiotic and metacam as instructed to do by the nurse. I put him back in his cage, and he went into his house, and then didn’t move at all. I gt him out again in 2 hours and gave him more food and water, and carried on doing this every 2 hours through the evening and night. During this time, he has nibbled at some hay and lettuce, and this morning he has also tried some celery, cucumber and a cherry tomato, but he just really isn’t fussed. He isn’t really moving around very much and will quite happily sit in the same spot for the whole time between feeds.

Is it normal for him to be so lethargic and off his food still? I’m probably just panicking, but he’s so quiet and fed up with himself, which whilst understandable panics me. If anybody could offer any advice, I’d be really grateful as I’m quite worried about him still at the moment.

Thank you :)
 
I'm sorry William has had such a rough time of it. It is wonderful to hear how far you went to get your pig to a vet who was more competent, especially in the severe weather conditions we have been having.

Bladder stone surgery is 'routine' piggie surgery - but it is still major surgery. He will be in some pain for a few days. The fact that he is nibbling on food and taking Science Recovery well is a good sign. What dose of Metacam is he on? Most vets only advise 0.1ml, but the better piggie dose (per the advice and experience of the CCT) in 0.3ml.
Is he bedded on Vetbed? This will help ease any discomfort from his wound, though the bedding will need to be changed 1-2 times a day to ensure he is kept clean.
 
I'm sorry William has had such a rough time of it. It is wonderful to hear how far you went to get your pig to a vet who was more competent, especially in the severe weather conditions we have been having.

Bladder stone surgery is 'routine' piggie surgery - but it is still major surgery. He will be in some pain for a few days. The fact that he is nibbling on food and taking Science Recovery well is a good sign. What dose of Metacam is he on? Most vets only advise 0.1ml, but the better piggie dose (per the advice and experience of the CCT) in 0.3ml.
Is he bedded on Vetbed? This will help ease any discomfort from his wound, though the bedding will need to be changed 1-2 times a day to ensure he is kept clean.

Thank you for your kind words, it's probably me being a bit tired and everything, but I've been so worried that I've done something wrong at some point. :)

The metacam dose the vet prescribed is 2 drops daily, and when I drop this into a syringe it is 0.1ml, so it sounds about right. He is quite big though, usually around 1300 grams but a bit less at the moment, so I will speak to my vet and see if I can up his does a little.

He has vetbed, it's his normal bedding anyway. We used wood shavings when we first got him but he sneezed a fair bit, so after some research we changed him onto vetbed about a year and a half ago. I've changed it twice since we got home last night. I only have two bits that fit his cage, so it's a constant round of washing and getting it straight onto the radiator to dry ready for the next change.

I've just fed him again, and he seems to be getting a lot hungrier, he took a lor more of the science recovery then he has done yet, which I'm pleased with.

Thank you again :)
 
Poor little chap has been through a lot, sounds as if it has knocked him of his feet. My piggie has had a uti infection, she went to the vets on monday, the vet flushed her bladder with water, which she found very uncomfortable. She went straight off her food, wouldn't touch a thing. Next day she would eat small amounts, I was very worried, I went to the vets on saturday to get some critical care, since then though she has started eating again, although not the same as before. It sounds as if they need time to get over the shock, so try not to worry too much, you are doing all you can to help him. Keep a close eye on his wound, make sure it doesn't swell. I am sure he will be eating again soon. My girl seems to be improving day by day. If you are concerned at all take him straight back to the vet.
 
Hey bo.jangles,

Hows William doing now? Really hope he's getting better!

I think you've dealt with this really well, well done for your perseverance!

I'm taking Bert to the vets asap, I'm actually hoping they will find a bladder stone now so at least I will know what's wrong with the little fella.
Sending William lots of get well soon piggy kisses from my three! xoxo
 
Hey bo.jangles,

Hows William doing now? Really hope he's getting better!

I think you've dealt with this really well, well done for your perseverance!

I'm taking Bert to the vets asap, I'm actually hoping they will find a bladder stone now so at least I will know what's wrong with the little fella.
Sending William lots of get well soon piggy kisses from my three! xoxo

He is doing so much better now, he's starting to get back to normal, he's eating much better now, so I'm just doing a couple of small syringe feeds a day now (and I think they're more for my piece of mind!).

I went back to work today, I'd taken a few days leave and then worked from home a few days so I could spend time with him to make sure he was eating and things, and I felt awful leaving him, but I've come back home tonight and he's wondering round his cage having a drink and nibbling on some hay and veggies as if to say 'what was you worried about Mum!'

He saw the vet on Wednesday to check the wound (is that what's it called?!?) and he said it was looking nice and dry so that was good news! We got some more antibiotics, and are going back for another check up next Thursday.

Compared to how he was a week ago, he has come on in leaps and bounds. I know we're not all the way yet, but I'm so glad we're on the way.

Thank you for your nice comments, it's always nice to hear :) it seem's like William and your Bert have very similar stories! I know excatly how you feel about just wanting to find a resolution, after seeing them in pain and uncomfortable, you just want to know definatively what's wrong so that you can solve it.

I've been keeping an eye on Bert's progress on your thread - hope the vet appoint ment goes/went well!

Hayley
x
 
I'm pleased to say that William is now a lot better following his operation, he is pretty much back to his old self!

We had a check up at the vets on Thursday and was told that he could stop taking the anti-biotics and metacam.

However, yesterday, and even more so today, he's poohs have been a lot more waterey than usual. I've taken away all his fresh food, so he's just got his hay and his pellets. It hasn't relaly helped though. He is still perky, and eating as much as normal, and isn't drinking any more than normal.

Is this possibly a reaction to comign off the antibiotics and metacam? is there anything that I should do? I think we'll head back to the vets if there's no improvement.

Thank you for nay advice that you can offer,
Hayley (and William!)
 
Have you tried maybe giving them some Bio-Lapis or something along those lines? Maybe his tummy's still a little upset from the medications he was on and helping to maintain the normal gut flora for a couple days after the meds have stopped would help. I know it applies to humans, might help piggies as well.
 
Thank you for your reply. He's got vet ark pro c pro biotic in his water, my vets didn't have any bio lapis when I asked and said that the vet ark one would be okay. He's been having this in his water ever since he had the anti biotics. I know he's getting it inside him as he is drinking as normal. I know that I may just be panicing, but we've been through so much with him in the last 2 and a half weeks, and I honestly thought it was over before today.

I think I'm going to try to get him to the vet tommorrow morning, I just want him to be okay.
 
Well, I know that most people recommend syringe feeding (or some other direct method) an additive (vitamin C or probiotics) as the dilution effect in water is actually quite high. I know how worrying it is when our little ones are sick, and I'm sending best wishes for your little guys recovery. We'll all keep our fingers crossed here "across the pond".
 
Unfortunately I think William has another stone, and we're devestated.

He's started squeaking when he goes to the toilet - not as much as previously, but certinaly noticable. We're taking him for anohter xray tommorrow.

I phoned the emergency vets last night, and they recoommended giving him metacam at the same dose as before - it works out as 0.1ml once a day. I gave him a dose last night and since then he's pooh's been a lot looser then normal - we've had to give him a quick bath this morning as he was in a mess, and straight after I'd finished drying him he needed another clean. He's still eating and drinking like normal.

If the xray tommorrow shows that he has got another stone then I assume that another operation would be then only option to remove the stone, but would another operation only 4 weeks after the last be too much for him? And if the stone has re-occurred this quickly will it just keep happening? I knew that reoccurance was a possibility, so I've cut out kale and things to stop his diet being too high in calcium. I also read somewhere that piggies who don't drink a lot are more prone to stones, so i was really pleased that the last few weeks he was drinking from his bottle a bit more then he used to.

I'm thinking the worst I guess, thinking he has another stone, but is there anything else that could be wrong?

It's so horribble to watch him in pain again so soon after the last time, and we just don't know what to do for him right now. And I'm dreading tommorrow if a stone is confirmed and the vet says another operation isn't a good idea. I just keep giving him cuddles today, and giving him all his favourite foods.

If anybody knows anything that may help, we'd be really grateful. Just want him to be okay.
 
I forgot to say, one of William's poops last night was a creamy colour - nothing like his normal colour. I don't know if that means anything or not?
 
I'm sorry you are having to go through this all again so soon. Poor William! This is about the right time for a stone to recur. 3-4 weeks is common for a repeat stone removal. The creamy substance on the poops sounds like it may be bladder sludge/silt - a precursor, or sign, that stones may be forming. I think a yeast infection may also cause squeaking and the creamy stuff on the poops.

Do you know if the vet thoroughly flushed the entire renal system out after the first surgery? It is necessary to flush everything out from the kidneys, through the bladder and right to the tip of the penis. Any tiny bits of debris left often leads to a repeat of stones.

Do you live in a hardwater area? Filtering the water, or giving bottled water, will make a lot of difference; it is surprising how much excess calcium goes through piggies just when you give them straight tap water in hardwater areas.
 
I am pleased to say that William had his xray last Monday and the vet said that he ahsn't got another stone. It does however seem that he has a bladder infection. Baytril hasn't helped so we've collected Septrin from the vets tonight. I've been given instructions to give him 0.05ml once daily, which to me seems way way too low. I'm going to call the vets back tommorrow, but what should the correct dosage be?

I've seen a few things about differences between adult and peadiatric types of the medication, and my bottle says peadiatric, but it doesn't seem to smell of bannana and it seems that it should?

Hopefully we're nearly there!
 
Try again

Septrin Paediatric Suspension dose rate is 0.5ml twice daily for 10-14 days
 
Good to hear William hasn't got another stone. That must be a big relief!

As AP said, 0.5ml twice daily is the dose for paediatric Septrin.
The adult Septrin is twice the strength so is half the dose - the dose you are being advised by your vet to give.
 
CCC4 check bj's post again. I think you misread the dose.
The vet recommended 0.05ml daily, which is incorrect for Adult Septrin, correct dose is once daily dose of 0.5ml
If bj had given the dose the vet said it was a tenth of the proper dose!
 
Thank you for all your information and help. I spoke to the vets again yesterday and asked that the dose be recalculated - they have now said that it should be 0.5ml twice daily - I was fuming at the time, but I just want poor William to get better so I'm just pleased now that we're hopefully on the road to that.

William started having the correct dose last night, and he's still squaking when he passes urine today. I know I'm probably being really pre-emptive here but how long will it be before he 'sounds' better? He already seems a little better in himself today, he's got a bit of his cheekiness back about him :)

Thank you again,
Hayley
 
Give it 2-3 days to completely kick in, it may be closer to the end of the course before he appears back to normal though. How long have you been advised to give the Septrin for?
 
10 days, but I would ideally like to carry on to 14 I think, just to try and make sure we've kicked the infection.

He seems so much more hungry today, so I've taken that as a good sign!

I've carried on with his pro-biotic, is that okay? I've also changed to bottled water for the little man following your post last week, thank you for that! I'd already cut down on as many calcium high vegetables as I can (he no longer has any spinach, carrotts, parsley, brocoli or kale at all). I'm panicing myself now thinking that he will get another stone!
 
bj careful he doesn't starve!!!
I would just cut out the spinach.
 
I hope the wee mite starts to feel better soon bless him.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but I thought it was ok to give carrots?
 
Carrots tend to be fairly high in sugars, Vit A and calcium. They can be given daily but in small amounts (small chunk or baby carrot), though all my pigs with bladder and cystitis issues flare up when given carrots, leaving behind calcium deposits in the urine.

There are lots of other, healthier foods that can be given and enjoyed. Coriander and peppers being of the better balanced nutrition, with cucumber, lettuces, courgette, tomatoes, corn silks and husks etc doing well to fill out and vary the salads. Other foods - like parsley, apple etc. - can be mixed in on rotation daily, bearing in mind which ones are high calcium and not giving lots of high calcium veg together. A healthy diet is not a limited diet.

Parsley, spinach and kale in particular are very high in calcium so unless heavily balanced to balance the nutrients, it's best to limit them or not give them at all. Adult pigs have no need for so much calcium, so it is expelled it the urine. Pigs with bladder issues can show symptoms if too much calcium is going through the renal system.
 
I would not give lettuce, as it contains laudanum, an opium derivative, said to cause liver problems.
 
Feel free to read:

http://www.galensgarden.co.uk/vegetables/lettuce.php

I know of many pigs, including my own, that are fed different varieties on a daily basis and have been for years. Iceberg is not advised due to complete lack of nutritonal content, but other varieties are safe and very much enjoyed...no health problems. The lettuce issue is as much a myth as the idea that multiple boars cannot be housed together!
 
Maybe carrot dangers are an urban myth as well. All of my pigs get carrots so many times per week and I have never been aware of any problems.
 
Carrots have always been assumed to be safe to feed in large amounts, lettuce has always been assumed not to be safe. There are pros and cons to each, but personal experience, and the experiences of a fair few others, show that bladder issues are irritated just by the feeding of carrot. Perhaps some pigs are just susceptible, extra-sensitive, but carrot is still not an especially healthy veg.
There are still people who also assume that boars cannot live together, when there are many situations when - provided the environment is suited to this arrangement - four or five plus boars live very well together.
It can be hard to change the mindset of 20 years ago for sure.
 
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