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Bladder stones

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Gems

Gems

Adult Guinea Pig
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I took Athena to the vets tonight for a check up as she was at the end of her course of antibiotics and now she has bladder stones :( She had a wee on the table while she was there and you can see all the crystals in her wee. He said her bladder was much bigger than it should be, about the size of a mandarin, and that he was worried her bladder would get blocked by the stones which would cause kidney failure. I have to change her diet to a higher vitamin c, lower calcium diet, and he said to get some vitamin c tablets to put in the water but I can't for the life of me remember what they're called. He said I could get them from boots pharmacy, that they were blackcurrant flavour and they fizz when you first put them in water, does anyone know what they are called?

He also said to give her a diuretic to try to encourage her to drink more. I'm so worried about her, poor thing has been through so much and he basically said if she gets kidney failure there's nothing that can be done and she'll die 8...
 
Gems said:
I have to change her diet to a higher vitamin c, lower calcium diet, and he said to get some vitamin c tablets to put in the water but I can't for the life of me remember what they're called. He said I could get them from boots pharmacy, that they were blackcurrant flavour and they fizz when you first put them in water, does anyone know what they are called?...
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Sorry to hear that Athena is still poorly. Lots of people here have successfully got their guinea pigs through this type of problem, with stones etc, so I'm sure you can get plenty of great advice.

I've never used them myself (and don't know if they're necessarily the best product to give) but another member here recently mentioned her Vet advised giving Redoxon Vit C tablets to her guinea. Do you think it may have been those? I'd make sure you're certain of the correct dosage though, as most human vit c supplements are a much higher dosage than recommended for piggies, even sick ones. And be sure that whatever you give only contains Vit C, as many vitamin supplements also contain other vitamins/minerals etc and it's not always that obvious from the front of the packet!

Good luck x
 
Claire that sounds right, he said they were in a tube so I've looked on boots and think I've found the right ones. He told me just to put them in the water bottle, I said what about the others drinking it but he said they will be fine.

furryfriends - I asked what could be done but he said because of her other health issues she wouldn't survive an op so we have no choice but to try to get them out "naturally" so to speak. He didn't do an xray, but you could see the "bits" in the wee.
 
They are the ones my vet recommended but just double check on the dosage as I was told to use half a tablet.

Is your vet certain it is stones? The reason I ask is because my Connie had grit in her urine and an x ray showed that she didn't have stones. May be Athena has sludge in her bladder which would explain the grit / crystals?

Also, both Connie and Eliza had quite a lot of crystals and blood in their urine but no stones.
x
 
I'm not sure as he said her bladder was alot bigger than it should be which is why he thought stones?

If it is sludge rather than stones then what is the treatment for that? She's got another course of antibiotics for 2 weeks as he said if the stones start breaking down they can have bacteria in them which will mean she would get another infection so she's on antibiotics to try to combat that.
 
Connie had a bladder flush but she was under GA at the time. I think there is another way of doing it but I'm not sure. It may be worth mentioning to your vet. I know it can be more fiddly to do a bladder flush with sows as the vet was unable to do it with Eliza but she did try.

If Athena has a bad infection and / or sludge, this can cause the bladder to be inflamed so it will probably be bigger.

Syringing unsweetened cranberry juice and water can help to flush the bladder out the natural way xx
 
We were giving cranberry juice ( though she did not like it at all! ) but I'll get some more to try with her.

I think I'll try to change her diet, give the vitamin c and cranberry and keep her on the antibiotics for 2 weeks and if she's still no better in 2 weeks when I take her back then I'll ask about getting her bladder flushed, though I'm really worried about giving her a GA
 
Sounds like a good idea to me. Connie use to like the cranberry juice but Eliza hated it and spat it out everywhere.

Eliza was on Septrin for a long 4 weeks until the infection cleared up.

I doubt your vet will give Athena a GA if he doesn't think she is up to it so don't worry about that. I am really not sure if a GA is needed for a bladder flush as it is mainly water being syringed directly in to the bladder. Connie was under GA for something else at the time so they decided to do the flush whilst she was already asleep.

You are doing a grand job with Athena :)
 
Sorry to hear this Gems. Would you be able to ask the vet to take an xray of Athena's bladder, even just to confirm the presence of stones and to determine the approximate size of them?

I have heard of cases where bladder stones are left untreated. I've also heard of pigs passing bladder stones naturally, sows often present with urethral stones which can be removed under local anaesthetic.

In any case, plenty of fluids is an important part of the treatment. Cranberry juice will help with flushing some bacteria out (infection can be a problem as well as bladder stones), but ultimately you want to aim as close to 40ml of fluid per day as you can in order to flush the bladder out.

Analgesics to help with the pain and obvious inflammation is also important, especially as the vet did determine that the bladder is inflamed. Did he prescribe any Metacam or Rimadyl?
 
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I don't think our vets will do xrays unless they're under GA ( when Cleo had an ultrasound they had to give her a GA as she wouldn't stay still )

He didn't prescribe any painkillers, it's hard to tell whether she is in pain or not, I'm sure it is probably painful for her but she isn't showing any signs, though I know that that doesn't stand for much. She doesn't squeek when she wees, doesn't get on her tiptoes and is still eating fine.

She's drinking herself but obviously I can't be sure how much she's drinking as I'm at work all day, should I be syringing her water as well as the cranberry? Or does the cranberry count towards her daily fluid intake?

He did say something about phosphorus or phosphates(?) and calcium being an important thing to keep an eye on now so I don't know whether to feed her separately so I can monitor her diet better, although I don't want her to be pushed out of the group by feeding her separately either.
 
Your vet should be able to take an xray without a GA. They usually sit still long enough (with some positioning aids) to get a good picture. At least then you could rule out/in any stones and know where they are.

You could try 'oxbow Daily C' tablets for the extra vit C. some of my boys just eat them like treats, the others I have to crush the tabs for and syringe down if needed. :)
 
I've gone through Laura's list of foods to try to work out a meal plan for Athena rolleyes

Am I right in thinking 2 from the daily high calcium foods and 2 from the daily low calcium foods will be the right option for her? I'm going shopping tonight so want to make sure I buy the right things!
 
Well we had Athena back to the vets tonight for a check up as her two week course of antibiotics were up. When he was poking and prodding her she was screaming so he said she's still getting alot of pain from her bladder. He took a sample from her and said that it was teaming with phosphates :( the PH of her urine has also gone up. We've been following the rate watchers diet but obviously we really need to get the level of phosphates down. He did say her bladder had gone right down in size and she isn't bleeding as much so is now wondering whether the bleeding has been bladder stones all along.

I've asked that she be put on septrin which he thought was a good idea so we've got to give her 0.5ml twice a day for two weeks and we've also got some metacam in just incase she gets any pain. I should point out that she doesn't squeek when she wee's or poos so isn't in any obvious discomfort so we aren't going to give her any unless we feel she needs it as he said it will be easier to tell if the infection is gone if she's not on the pain meds. It's the cat metacam he's given us as he said it's not as strong as the dog one but the receptionist really confused us as to how much to give should we need to. On the bottle it's 0.5ml but the syringe provided doesn't have those markings so she just showed us where to fill it to but it didn't give any measurement so if someone could let me know I'd appreciate it.
 
I am sorry about Athena, but grateful that your vet has been prescribing her septrin and metacam - metacam is not only a painkilller but also an anti-inflammatory which can help bring down then inflammation in her bladder.

I would recommend to continue with the cranberry juice - it also contains a lot of vitamin C incidentally.

Do you think you can try to get your vet to x-ray Athena without GA? If left sitting in the open in a foreign space, most piggies will just hunker down. Mine do!
 
The vet we have been seeing has been really good to be honest, we've been really happy with the treatment she's been getting.

He said they generally anaesthetise piggies for xrays unless they don't have to and they're happy to sit still ( they have some kind of holder they put them in ) so I don't know whether she would have to have a GA or not as it would depend how she was but they can't guarantee they could do it without GA
 
I am pleased she is a bit better and it is good that she now has pain killers. She probably is in pain with all that going on. I have always been given the dog metacam so can't comment on dosage sorry. In my experience septrin has been a very good antibiotic for some of the guineas here. Far more palatable and had very good success. I also found it was less likely yo upset tummys.

Would be good to know what is actually going on with her, but it sounds like what is being done is helping.

Do you know what the pH of her urine was?

Good to have the update. Fingers crossed for her. x
 
Thanks Layla. I think it was 8.6 which I believe is still normal for piggies but said it would be better for her bladder problems if we could get it lower ( though I now think this may be impossible! )
 
Good to hear she's on Septrin and Metacam, I hope this does the trick and it is just an infection/inflammation. Will check on the dose for cat Metacam now, it's a weaker concentration than the dog one so dose is higher.

The CCT also recommend lowering the pH of the urine - ideally down to 6 - 6.5. Hydrangea root tincture is one they recommend, but I have no personal experience of using it.

Have you had a read of the GL page regarding stones? They have a few ideas too.
http://www.guinealynx.info/stones.html
 
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Yeah he said that the cat one would be safer as it's difficult to get the right dosage for guineas ( apparently the amount recommend for piggies if you worked out the same for Cats/Dogs would be far too much ).

I've had a quick look through that page but I'm at work so I'll have a proper look tonight. Is Hydrangea root tincture some kind of herbal product that I could get from a health food shop?
 
Just found somewhere that sells it. The write up says :

The root has long been used as a mild diuretic. It also has a reputation for helping to prevent and remove gravel, bladder stones, and kidney stones.

So definitely sounds as thought it could be worth a try. Do you know the dosage Laura?
 
One of my boys, Charlie, has had problems with stones since Easter so I sympathise completely.

He has the cat version of Metacam and the dose is up to the '3' on the syringe that comes with it. Hope that helps?
 
Gems said:
Just found somewhere that sells it. The write up says :

The root has long been used as a mild diuretic. It also has a reputation for helping to prevent and remove gravel, bladder stones, and kidney stones.

So definitely sounds as thought it could be worth a try. Do you know the dosage Laura?
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I have not done this before, sounds good. Let me know if it helps.
x
 
Hmm well the receptionist showed me on the syringe the amount to give which was to the bottom of the cats tail that was on the top of the syringe so I've no idea how much that was! I really don't want to give her too much of it by mistake, the amount she showed we was minuscule.

I'm going to order some today so will let you know how we get on and if it helps at all. How long should I be giving her it daily for?
 
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