Blood in boars urine

[AHGuins]

We have recently adopted 2 boars from a sanctuary and this week one of the boars, Elmo, was squeaking when peeing and there is blood in his urine.

He's eating and behaving normally. I took him to the vets - stupidly just picking the nearest small animal vets that was open (it was late evening and our usual vet (for our dog) was shut).

Elmo was examined and prescribed metacam 0.4ml cat metacam and sent home with a syringe and sample. I took the sample in on Saturday but was told the vet had left no notes on Elmo so I had to explain his symptoms.

The new vet prescribed baytril 0.5ml twice a day but said she couldn't establish anything from their test. No glucose, but there's blood and protein in the pee. She said the blood was likely causing the protein reading but the sample needed to be sent off - £75 fee.

Not happy with this vet and their conduct, I contacted another vet who won't see Elmo without charging a referral fee of £160.

Does anyone have any advice on how to proceed? I've agreed to the further pee testing but not sure Elmo is on the right meds. If he needs a scan I don't have confidence in this vet so will have to refer ... but would appreciate any advice in the meantime ...

 

[DMS260820]

You need an xray or scan doing. To look.for bladder stones.This is your next step, keep using the painkiller.

Sorry i meant to say. Find a vet that deals with guinea pigs if you can.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi and welcome!

Could you please add your county to your account details so members familiar with your area (if we have them) may be able to give you recommendations re. vets. You can access our list of recommended vets by clicking on your username on the top bar but as it relies on member feedback, it is by necessity incomplete.
Having your county appear with every post you make allows us to tailor any advice to what is available and relevant where you are and we can give more local recommendations if we have them. We have members and enquiries from all over the world.

There are several urinary tract problems manifesting with very similar symptoms:
- bacterial urine infection (UTI) or cystitis (bladder wall infection); this is the first line of defence and commonly treated by an antibiotic. The dosage of baytril is correct for treating bladder problems. It is often prescribed together with metacam, but generally a higher dosage than the one you have been prescribed.
- bladder stones and sludge. Any good vet will feel for the bladder. A stone can usually be felt; a bladder that is soft and relaxed will not have a problem with either. A hard, small bladder is generally the result of long standing problems, either from a stone or from long term interstitial cystitis. A blood test can also check for the presence of crystals in the urine. This is generally step2 in the process.
- sterile interstitial cystitis (IC). This is a recurring cystitis that does not react much or at all to antibiotics at; i.e. if symptoms are suppressed, they will return after the end of the course of antibiotics.
It has become a problem seen much more often in guinea pigs over the last decade. So far, nobody knows what exactly is causing it and at the moment, it can only be diagnosed by default.
It can in some cases be transmitted to mates via the bedding (scent marking/wiping the genitalia over the floor). Because of its nature and relative new emergence, it can also currently not be healed. You can only manage the symptoms, especially the flare-ups every few months once you have initially got on top of them. The good news is that it eventually goes away on its own and that it doesn't cause bladder stones or shortens the life span. The bad news is that it is more of a matter of years than months until it disappears again.
Treatment is generally with metacam and cystease or another glucosamine-based food supplement that spports the natural glucosamine coating of the bladder walls. This condition is not yet well known amongst general vets with not a lot experience with guinea pigs.

I hope that this helps you to understand what your vets are trying to do and to achieve so far.
Increased levels of protein are an indication for an infection or cystitis going on. The red colour in the pee is porphyrine and not high levels of blood; it takes a huge amount of blood to discolour urine, by the way.

 

[AHGuins]

Would you skip straight to the scan and not get the pee tested?

I've found a local exotics vet to be referred to.

 

[AHGuins]

Hi and welcome!

Could you please add your county to your account details so members familiar with your area (if we have them) may be able to give you recommendations re. vets. You can access our list of recommended vets by clicking on your username on the top bar but as it relies on member feedback, it is by necessity incomplete.
Having your county appear with every post you make allows us to tailor any advice to what is available and relevant where you are and we can give more local recommendations if we have them. We have members and enquiries from all over the world.

There are several urinary tract problems manifesting with very similar symptoms:
- bacterial urine infection (UTI) or cystitis (bladder wall infection); this is the first line of defence and commonly treated by an antibiotic. The dosage of baytril is correct for treating bladder problems. It is often prescribed together with metacam, but generally a higher dosage than the one you have been prescribed.
- bladder stones and sludge. Any good vet will feel for the bladder. A stone can usually be felt; a bladder that is soft and relaxed will not have a problem with either. A hard, small bladder is generally the result of long standing problems, either from a stone or from long term interstitial cystitis. A blood test can also check for the presence of crystals in the urine. This is generally step2 in the process.
- sterile interstitial cystitis (IC). This is a recurring cystitis that does not react much or at all to antibiotics at; i.e. if symptoms are suppressed, they will return after the end of the course of antibiotics.
It has become a problem seen much more often in guinea pigs over the last decade. So far, nobody knows what exactly is causing it and at the moment, it can only be diagnosed by default.
It can in some cases be transmitted to mates via the bedding (scent marking/wiping the genitalia over the floor). Because of its nature and relative new emergence, it can also currently not be healed. You can only manage the symptoms, especially the flare-ups every few months once you have initially got on top of them. The good news is that it eventually goes away on its own and that it doesn't cause bladder stones or shortens the life span. The bad news is that it is more of a matter of years than months until it disappears again.
Treatment is generally with metacam and cystease or another glucosamine-based food supplement that spports the natural glucosamine coating of the bladder walls. This condition is not yet well known amongst general vets with not a lot experience with guinea pigs.

I hope that this helps you to understand what your vets are trying to do and to achieve so far.
Increased levels of protein are an indication for an infection or cystitis going on. The red colour in the pee is porphyrine and not high levels of blood; it takes a huge amount of blood to discolour urine, by the way.

Thank you - this helps me know the route they Are taking - but they have admitted they are limited in knowledge - particularly when it comes to scans ...

I forgot to mention there were what appear to be bright red blood spots on his (straw) bedding.

Elmo is currently kept on straw - as this was the bedding of choice at the sanctuary. I tried them on a paper-based bedding but given their long hair it quickly resulted in matts!

 

[DMS260820]

Would you skip straight to the scan and not get the pee tested?

I've found a local exotics vet to be referred to.

Just follow wiebke's post. I thought u had had the pee tested already. Good luck

 

[Wiebke]

Thank you - this helps me know the route they Are taking - but they have admitted they are limited in knowledge - particularly when it comes to scans ...

I forgot to mention there were what appear to be bright red blood spots on his (straw) bedding.

Elmo is currently kept on straw - as this was the bedding of choice at the sanctuary. I tried them on a paper-based bedding but given their long hair it quickly resulted in matts!

Here is our bedding guide which gives an overview. Are your piggies indoors or outdoors piggies and how have they been kept at the rescue? You can find a list of recommended (and carefully vetted) UK rescues we can ensure our members that they will be in safe hands at all stages of the rescue process on the top bar next to our recommended vets locator.
Please note that any like with breeders, anybody can call themselves a resue without licensing and control; and the results can be accordingly.

If you have hutch piggies, we generally do not recommend fleece; it is better for indoors guinea pigs in constant and dry conditions but there are some much better bedding alternatives to straw!
Bedding For Guinea Pigs - Overview

I am asking because UTI is generally rare in indoors piggies because it is usually caused by a damp, cold ground like a wet lawn after a cold night and large temperature swings between night and day. We see UTI generally more commonly in spring and autumn in outdoors piggies or piggies put on the lawn too early without proper preparation.

You are right in investigating the blood drops, but since neither vet seems to be worried about bladder stones, I would assume that they are porphyrine rather than pure blood. At the very onset of UTI or IC symptoms like red urine or pees containing blood are not yet consistent, and the behaviour of your piggy shows clearly that you are not dealing with any really bad yet, if that is any consolation to you.

 

[AHGuins]

Here is our bedding guide which gives an overview. Are your piggies indoors or outdoors piggies and how have they been kept at the rescue? You can find a list of recommended (and carefully vetted) UK rescues we can ensure our members that they will be in safe hands at all stages of the rescue process on the top bar next to our recommended vets locator.
Please note that any like with breeders, anybody can call themselves a resue without licensing and control; and the results can be accordingly.

If you have hutch piggies, we generally do not recommend fleece; it is better for indoors guinea pigs in constant and dry conditions but there are some much better bedding alternatives to straw!
Bedding For Guinea Pigs - Overview

I am asking because UTI is generally rare in indoors piggies because it is usually caused by a damp, cold ground like a wet lawn after a cold night and large temperature swings between night and day. We see UTI generally more commonly in spring and autumn in outdoors piggies or piggies put on the lawn too early without proper preparation.

You are right in investigating the blood drops, but since neither vet seems to be worried about bladder stones, I would assume that they are porphyrine rather than pure blood. At the very onset of UTI or IC symptoms like red urine or pees containing blood are not yet consistent, and the behaviour of your piggy shows clearly that you are not dealing with any really bad yet, if that is any consolation to you.

the boys are kept indoors - but in a building attached to the house. It will be heated in winter. Their floor is triple insulated and raised to keep the worst of the cold away and the room is ventilated but the boys are protected from drafts.

I'll look into the other recommended beddings - thank you

I think that spotting the 'blood' was really worrying but relieved to hear that hopefully - given Elmo's behaviour - it's nothing too serious!

 

[Wiebke]

the boys are kept indoors - but in a building attached to the house. It will be heated in winter. Their floor is triple insulated and raised to keep the worst of the cold away and the room is ventilated but the boys are protected from drafts.

I'll look into the other recommended beddings - thank you

I think that spotting the 'blood' was really worrying but relieved to hear that hopefully - given Elmo's behaviour - it's nothing too serious!

When you have time, you may find our full new owners guide collection helpful; it contains lots of helpful tips and information to help you to a hopefully smooth start: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

 

[AHGuins]

When you have time, you may find our full new owners guide collection helpful; it contains lots of helpful tips and information to help you to a hopefully smooth start: Getting Started - New Owners' Most Helpful Guides

I'm going to go back over some sections. I read up on a lot before the boys arrived - and often check back in. Thanks for all the advice so far! I'll update with pee test results later this week. Hoping we get some answers

 

[Wiebke]

I'm going to go back over some sections. I read up on a lot before the boys arrived - and often check back in. Thanks for all the advice so far! I'll update with pee test results later this week. Hoping we get some answers

All the best!