Blood (In The) Bath :-(

[Stinklepig]

Bathed the top cage girls tonight, and someone has left three blood patches. Fresh blood, looks quite undilute (though there's another tinged patch but damp tub, wet pigs, who knows).

Found a tiny crystal in one of the patches, so definitely looks like a stone issue. Unfortunately in checking it was a crystal and not bedding or something that had somehow got messed up I broke it too much with my nail and don't have anything to take in to be tested.

Trembles is definitely not right, as posted on here, so it may well be her (I wonder if after all the breathing/ jerking thing is stone irritation related, though other than the jerking awake or asleep she's absolutely fine in herself)

Treacs might be the stoner of the group, as she appears to have the start of a tooth problem (going in to have that checked asap) and that can be a result of calcium uptake issues.

Mop is not the happiest she's ever been, but she seems very hormonal (in to discuss the jab this week) rather than bladdery.

Thing and Lunch both went up to Sarah's yesterday, and Thing was a furry flood machine with no problems peeing on anything and everything she could. No sign of straining or blood. Lunch was out a bit less, but peed and there was no sign of problems with her either.

Going to start with Trembs and work through at the vets, hopefully each one will pee so a stick test can be done till the stoney one can maybe be found. If not, then it's x rays I guess, one at a time starting with the most likely.

Must invest in a tub of test strips myself, might have been able to narrow things down a little if I had them tonight.

I'm really not enjoying 2009 so far...

 

[biscandmatt]

aww, hugs to you. sounds like your not having a good time of it. but you've got a plan of action and that's all you can do. i hope you find out who it is and they get well soon.

 

[Claire W]

Sorry to hear that you are having these problems. (((Hugs))) to you all x

 

[Wiebke]

I'm so sorry - a few fresh drops of blood really look like a bladder stone stuck somewhere!

From my own experience, it's not so easy to find the pig in question. Even with a sizeable stone, they can go for days, and even weeks, without giving a sign of being in discomfort or pain, as long as the stone isn't interfering with urinating or causing cystitis. I hope you can find out the "offender" quickly!

My Llewelyn is at the vets right now for a suspected bladder stone. If I hadn't mentioned when I brought him in for UTI on Good Friday that I had noticed a what could be a little bit of grit in one of his urine patches when I took a sample for testing, the vet might not have taken an x-ray which showed a suspicious blob in his bladder...

Best of luck to you - and my deepest sympathies for the girl in question! At least you know what to look out for.

 

[pelicano]

My Holly peed some blood not long before she was spayed and, although my lot have always had a UTI hanging around, this time she didn't even squeak when she peed, so I actually think it was in some way related to the cysts.

I bought some of those test sticks online. They are really useful to have around.

Best of luck at the vets. x

 

[Glynis]

Oh love i'm so crossing paws for them all, you've had a rotten start to the year dam it
Healing wheeeeeeeks and heaps and heaps of loves and wheeeeeeeeks and little kisses on their cute heads and noses from me xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
and hey i think you deserve some HUGS too, with what you've been thru xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

re the pee tests... i used to be so dam sneaky i'd give lots of food and then bring up so if piggie needed a wee (as you would after lots of food) you'd pee on granny (aka me) so could always collect if needs be, but i'm sure you know all these tricks hope all goes well xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

 

[Stinklepig]

Chocolate teapot time.

As a vet, the one I saw today would make a great hatstand.

I only got to takte Trembs and Treacs up, she couldn't feel any stones in either* and no sign of cysts. She listened to Trembs lungs and heard a catch, but nothing that sounded like an infection. Was told it was most likely an allergy, and I'm to spray some water on the bedding when I clean them out, and soak her hay to keep the dust down. So there you go, no medical options, just give her rotting damp hay. Hurrah.

Neither of the girls had a pee whilst there even though I'd given them cucumber in the carrier, so no stick test.

Also asked about Mop with her hormone issues, and the vet had never heard of the injection treatment. Apparently they do a full spay when they see that kind of problem.. Which then tied up with the conversation about x ray/ surgery (after being told by a nurse last week they try without anaesthetic, and if no success use mild sedation, today I was told they do full knock out for x rays..) where she said they don't really like to operate on piggies over a couple of years old.

* - This is the same vet who couldn't feel stones in 'cky (can't put his full name here!) a few years ago, which lost vital time before he finally got the correct diagnosis and an op that went horribly wrong the following week

On the bright side it only cost a tenner, but I've come away feeling no further down the road than when I went in. I had been starting to trust this practice again after a long time away, when the vet I saw last week couldn't be more helpful and the one who operated on Jet sounded competant too on the phone.

I've just ordered a pack of 100 test sticks that show blood and many other things, only one place had them locally and wanted £45 for 100, I paid £10 online inc delivery. Going to try having each girl out in a box for an hour or so at a time tonight to try and narrow things down. I'm not at all impressed I'm back to being the blasted vet again (getting so tired of having to diagnose, then prod for the right treatment, I pay them to do this, I shouldn't have to know it!) but given how severe stones can be I can't just sit back and be complacent after what I saw last night and given previous history of these issues, and that vet in particular.

 

[pelicano]

It's so frustrating isn't it? Nothing worse than feeling like you know more than the vet.

Hope you can narrow things down with the urine strips.

 

[Sarah from Chucklebunnies]

I really feel for you - and your guinea pigs. Best of luck in finding the problem with the test strips, at least then you'll have some good information and an end to the uncertainty.

Sarah x

 

[Missbonbon]

Can I ask what website you brought the test sticks from?

 

[Stinklepig]

Sticks turned up this morning, so now have a box with celery, cucumber and romaine and currently Trembles in it. Will test each piggie at a time.

The sticks were from http://www.valuemed.co.uk/acatalog/URS_TESTS.html - I bought the 7.99 plus VAT ones at the top of the page. Ordered just after 4pm yesterday, they arrived in this mornings post, so I'm very pleased

Update - Trembs seems to be clear on everything other than high pH - 9 according to the chart - And a very tiny change in the protein square.

 

[Stinklepig]

Treacs has lower protein, but more blood

Not huge levels, but certainly the stick is picking up some. Her urine is clear to the eye though.

A bigger concern is her poo is a bit soft and icky, so there's something not right. They had some tomato last night so could just be that (although everyone else seems to be pooing OK), but need to keep an eye. Currently waiting for Mop to pee, I know someone peed a small stone the other night so have to get all the tests done and see who's the worst for blood I guess.

 

[Stinklepig]

Just Mop and Thing to go, but tested Lunch after Treacs, and not looking good. She peed OK, and it looked clear, but the stick turned dark green almost instantly She did pee on a bit of celery so maybe, just maybe, that gave a false positive, going to retest in a little while.

So that's something not spot on with Treacs, and something apparently quite acute with Lunch. Those two are now booked in to discuss with the vet later this afternoon.

Having the sticks seems pretty useful, I'd never have suspected it was Lunch who may well have peed the stone given her size behaviour etc, but certainly it appears she's the most likely to have the problem. At about 10p a stick this is very worth doing!

 

[pelicano]

Poor you - this sounds so much like my life it's scary! I always seem to be putting the piggies in empty trays and waiting for pee to test. Those are the sticks I've got too and I agree that they are so useful.

Hope you get some definite results soon.

 

[Wiebke]

I'm sorry to hear about your odyssey - I lost vital time with Minx, too! By the time she had her first op, it was touch and go! You never make THAT mistake again, do you? Even at the risk of being just a bit paranoid...

Have you made sure that it's the "right" vet who's going to see the problem pigs? It probably pays to wait a day or two, in order to get more competent treatment. Unfortunately, there seem to be great differences between vets in terms of knowledge and attitude, even in the same practice.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Lunch is the one, and that the others check out OK!

Big hug from me!

Vicky

 

[Stinklepig]

I checked which vet it was when I phoned, and thankfully it's not the one I saw yesterday. I think it's the one who x rayed and operated on Jet, and when I spoke to her on the phone last week she certainly didn't make me uneasy, will have to wait and see this afternoon though.

After testing all the top 5 they all have high pH, Trembles has ever so slightly higher protein, Treacle has a trace amount of blood, Mop seems all clear, Thing has some speckling on the blood square (will have to double check what that means), and Lunch's blood square is at the end of the scale. Given this I would certainly like Lunch to be x rayed, but have to see how much I can push for that this afternoon, might end up going elsewhere depending on the conversation.

Think I'm also going to try and get a metaclop jab for Treacs, she's never had perfect digestion since an illness last year and it seems she's a bit iffy again so hopefully an injection will help settle things a little, I'll also get some probiotic in her.

 

[Stinklepig]

Just got back - Lunch is in for an x ray tomorrow morning, not sure the vet was overly guinea knowledgeable or open to discussion, but what the hell I got what I wanted without too much of a fight, and felt a lot more confident in her than the one I saw yesterday.

Lunch had a metacam jab (I can understand why I guess, even though she's not showing any signs of pain...) and Baytril (this practice is Baytril crazy, I think I need to try and "score" some Septrin somehow!). Fingers crossed the x ray won't show anything serious tomorrow, but I'm not going to be able to relax until I get the results.

She had a good grope of Treacs and couldn't feel a stone (same as in Lunch, but honestly, can a vet *ever* feel a stone? In my experience, the answer is no) but did comment on her being a bit boney (something I've noticed and been saying for over a year) and possibly fluid filled cysts, most likely ovarian, around her hips (something I've been saying for three years or more to various vets). As her bum has been a bit iffy today I pushed for a metaclop jab - Vet said it was only good for stasis and would have the opposite effect to desired for hypermotility, but experience and other vets have shown that not to be the case so we got the jab in the end. She could probably sort herself out, but I prefer medication over crossing my fingers.

They were going to flog me some Bio Lapis (at no doubt a hefty price) but I always have Avipro in, and I've got a bit of Fibreplex left too, so avoided that expense.

I brought up the HCG jab, but she'd never heard of it being used in piggies and didn't know how they'd get the stuff... So guess I'll have to look further afield for that for Mop, and most likely Treacs.

Not the best day, but not the worst. I feel I could've saved time and money by going in for the x ray tomorrow, but best not to annoy too many vets - I'm already banned from one of the local ones!

 

[Wiebke]

You're far more knowledgeable than me in the medication department! What is metaclop for?

I have never thought that groping a pig's bladder was particularly helpful, unless it's a monster of a stone! Any groping doesn't give relevant info, apart from being sheer agony for the poor pig if there is a stone in there!

I'll be thinking of you, tomorrow. Having just been through that particular nightmare with Llewelyn yesterday, I send you all my sympathy and my best wishes for poor Lunch.

 

[Stinklepig]

You're far more knowledgeable than me in the medication department!

I just have a mind that can soak some things up.. And when I'm being patronised by someone in a white coat, I tend to try and get as much information as possible in case it comes in useful another time. Not to mention knwoing a thing or two prior to the appointment can be rather useful with some vets...

What is metaclop for?

Metaclopromide is.. Well.. I can't get a straight answer. The vet today said emollient ("softener" ) and stimulant for gut stasis/ constipation, but in the past a different vet (who I trust more with medicine interactions) was unsure but knew it worked and was probably due to food ball formation. The theory is it encourages the food in the stomach to ball properly, where it then enters the digestive tract as a more solid mass causing the guts to have to work on it properly through stimulating the intestine walls. This makes sense, though how true it is I don't know!

I do know it has worked for hypermotility (where the muscle contractions are too rapid, and food either shoots out, or shuffles back and forth due to the rythm being lost) and stasis (where things are very slow or not moving at all).

I have never thought that groping a pig's bladder was particularly helpful, unless it's a monster of a stone! Any groping doesn't give relevant info, apart from being sheer agony for the poor pig if there is a stone in there!

Indeed. I keep thinking of 'cky, who was groped lots, not stone was felt, and nearly a week later I finally managed to get a vet to x ray him - There was a rather large stone blocking him, and though he woke up after surgery he didn't recover :... So much for the power of touch in determining internal illness...

I'll be thinking of you, tomorrow. Having just been through that particular nightmare with Llewelyn yesterday, I send you all my sympathy and my best wishes for poor Lunch.

It's a hell of a worry, isn't it? The joy of a less than expert vet doing the x ray is already a concern, but then if it shows a problem... Well, have to wait and see. At least being a girl things are less frightening than if she was a boy, but still nail biting times ahead

 

[Stinklepig]

Well, an x ray on Lunch showed no stones. The vets phone has been down all afternoon so I didn't get to speak to the actual vet, so couldn't discuss if there was any sign of clouding. But the good news is Lunch is stoneless!

This could mean it's one of the others, but as Lunch's urine blood test was so conclusive I think I'm going to try and leave it at that for now.

Still trying to work out how two pigs being xc rayed and given antibiotics came to over £150, but there you go...