Blood in urine but not infection

[BellaRose19]

I took a couple guineas of mine to the vets yesterday as they were both showing blood in their urine.
Brownie squeals when she pees and didn’t like her abdomen and bladder being touched. She had ++ blood in her urine, but no white blood cells.
Glo had ++++ blood in urine and has a slightly wet back end but gave no reactions to her abdomen and bladder being touched. She has begun to squeal when peeing after vet touched it. She was recently treated for a water infection (saw blood) as she had ++++ blood and protein, slight incontinence. The blood started to show again after only 2 days of completing a 10 day course of antibiotics.
They don’t cohabit. They both have UTIs flare up *a lot*.
I don’t know if it makes any difference, but Glo was used by prior owner for breeding until she was 3 years old (she is now 4). I don’t believe she had much space as she seems to not be very active, shows no interest in other guineas, toys, treats etc. She seems very big but that is her womb (vet said) because she was used for breeding for 3 years.
Brownie wasn’t used for breeding but was rescued and had been kept in a *very small* home with another (I won’t go into details as it’s distressing and heartbreaking) she is over 5.5-6 years old. She has severe arthritis in her knees and her middle and lower spine is slightly damaged from not being able to move much and being crammed into a small space. She has barely any muscle left and only now putting some weight on (she weighed less than 600g when I got her). She tends to get a wet rear end and underside as she stays in place she pees and also struggles to elongate herself when she does pee, so I end up washing her backside daily because she gets wet.
The vet had no idea what was going on, x-rays were clear too. All he could suggest was giving them metacam - but Brownie is already on metacam twice a day for her arthritis and spinal damage (she also has acupuncture, physio and cartrophen injections) and so it’s not going to change anything as such for her. He wouldn’t issue antibiotics as no white blood cells.
Both have low calcium, watery foods almost daily - cucumber, celery and bit of lettuce. When they show the above symptoms and behaviour they get them everyday till it has gone.
What do you think is happening? Is there anything else I can do or give them which I am not already? They mean the world to me, all my guineas do. Thanks, sorry for the essay!

 

[Wiebke]

I took a couple guineas of mine to the vets yesterday as they were both showing blood in their urine.
Brownie squeals when she pees and didn’t like her abdomen and bladder being touched. She had ++ blood in her urine, but no white blood cells.
Glo had ++++ blood in urine and has a slightly wet back end but gave no reactions to her abdomen and bladder being touched. She has begun to squeal when peeing after vet touched it. She was recently treated for a water infection (saw blood) as she had ++++ blood and protein, slight incontinence. The blood started to show again after only 2 days of completing a 10 day course of antibiotics.
They don’t cohabit. They both have UTIs flare up *a lot*.
I don’t know if it makes any difference, but Glo was used by prior owner for breeding until she was 3 years old (she is now 4). I don’t believe she had much space as she seems to not be very active, shows no interest in other guineas, toys, treats etc. She seems very big but that is her womb (vet said) because she was used for breeding for 3 years.
Brownie wasn’t used for breeding but was rescued and had been kept in a *very small* home with another (I won’t go into details as it’s distressing and heartbreaking) she is over 5.5-6 years old. She has severe arthritis in her knees and her middle and lower spine is slightly damaged from not being able to move much and being crammed into a small space. She has barely any muscle left and only now putting some weight on (she weighed less than 600g when I got her). She tends to get a wet rear end and underside as she stays in place she pees and also struggles to elongate herself when she does pee, so I end up washing her backside daily because she gets wet.
The vet had no idea what was going on, x-rays were clear too. All he could suggest was giving them metacam - but Brownie is already on metacam twice a day for her arthritis and spinal damage (she also has acupuncture, physio and cartrophen injections) and so it’s not going to change anything as such for her. He wouldn’t issue antibiotics as no white blood cells.
Both have low calcium, watery foods almost daily - cucumber, celery and bit of lettuce. When they show the above symptoms and behaviour they get them everyday till it has gone.
What do you think is happening? Is there anything else I can do or give them which I am not already? They mean the world to me, all my guineas do. Thanks, sorry for the essay!

Hi

You may be dealing with sterile (i.e. non-bacterial) cystitis. It is by now the most common infection in especially indoors guinea pigs but it is not much known outside vet circles that deal very regularly with guinea pigs. Sterile interstitial cystitis cannot be healed but only managed with glucosamine and metacam (which is prescription-only in UK, so you'll need to discuss sterile cystitis with a vet for longer term treatment) towards the lower end of the scale.

Please also be aware that diet is about a balance between phosphorus : calcium : potassium (1:5:1) and has a soft spot. Cutting too much calcium out of the diet can move it out of that soft spot. Please also be aware that especially in a mainly hard water country like the more calcium comes from the water and pellets than actually from the veg. Even no added calcium pellets contain more calcium weight for weight than the veg highest in it, kale.

Please take the time to read this guide here, which explains it all in much more detail so you understand better what you are up against and any resulting recommendations and care advice of ours: Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

We can discuss any further steps and treatment details with you afterwards.

 

[OM91]

It might be worth talking to an exotic vet.

I second the idea of glucosamine - it protects the bladder and has known to be very effective.

Also, potassium citrate (0.06ml diluted in water) can be useful in adding potassium and helping to flush out calcium.

In extreme cases, sometimes a diuretic can be helpful in preventing calcium from binding to the kidneys.

But, as with any treatment, it should be run by a vet first.

 

[BellaRose19]

Hi

You may be dealing with sterile (i.e. non-bacterial) cystitis. It is by now the most common infection in especially indoors guinea pigs but it is not much known outside vet circles that deal very regularly with guinea pigs. Sterile interstitial cystitis cannot be healed but only managed with glucosamine and metacam (which is prescription-only in UK, so you'll need to discuss sterile cystitis with a vet for longer term treatment) towards the lower end of the scale.

Please also be aware that diet is about a balance between phosphorus : calcium : potassium (1:5:1) and has a soft spot. Cutting too much calcium out of the diet can move it out of that soft spot. Please also be aware that especially in a mainly hard water country like the more calcium comes from the water and pellets than actually from the veg. Even no added calcium pellets contain more calcium weight for weight than the veg highest in it, kale.

Please take the time to read this guide here, which explains it all in much more detail so you understand better what you are up against and any resulting recommendations and care advice of ours: Wiebke's Guide to Pees and Stones

We can discuss any further steps and treatment details with you afterwards.

Hi Wiebke,

I forgot about sterile cystitis - it’s something a guinea of mine years ago had. She was on metacam and cystaid daily. I’ll get some of the cystaid again.

I took them to a guinea specialist and she prescribed septrim. It’s worked, though Brownie has had to have a course of enrofloxacin. The vet had already made it up 1 part enro 4 parts water, Brownie usually OK with it, but this time she has been hit badly by it. She is eating and going to the toilet normally, but she isn’t very mobile - like she’s feeling yuk. How long have you found it remains in their system for?

Thanks for everything

 

[Wiebke]

Hi Wiebke,

I forgot about sterile cystitis - it’s something a guinea of mine years ago had. She was on metacam and cystaid daily. I’ll get some of the cystaid again.

I took them to a guinea specialist and she prescribed septrim. It’s worked, though Brownie has had to have a course of enrofloxacin. The vet had already made it up 1 part enro 4 parts water, Brownie usually OK with it, but this time she has been hit badly by it. She is eating and going to the toilet normally, but she isn’t very mobile - like she’s feeling yuk. How long have you found it remains in their system for?

Thanks for everything

Hi

I am very sorry about the baytril. How long it takes to get over it depends individually.

If it is sterile cystitis, then the milder forms can be temporily suppressed but symptoms will recur as soon as the antibiotic has worn off.

I would recommend that you give poo soup from her healthy companion 3 ml of the water in which totally fresh healthy poos have been soaked shortly to help prop up the gut and the wellbeing, 2-3 times daily. The quicker the process, the more microbiome arrives in the gut still live. When done correctly, it is more effective than generic probiotic powder as it is tailored to the species and their specific diet.
Probiotics & Live Gut Microbiome Transfer ('Poo Soup'); Recovery Formula Foods And Vitamin C: Overview With Product Links and Transfer Recipe