Blood in Urine

[Guinea Newbie]

Hi,
10 days ago we collected two 18 month old boys who could no longer be looked after by their old owner. They have always been together and are indoor piggies. When we first handled them we noticed that one felt very thin compared to the other and they had very long and over grown nails. I trimmed the nails and booked a vets appointment for a general check-up which was for tomorrow. However, when I got back from work today I noticed blood in their cage. I separated them to work out who it was coming from and called the vet.

I took them to the vet and she said that she advised an x-ray to check for bladder stones which could result in possible surgery. I have a feeling they may have been fed a lot of kale by their previous owner which is apparently high in calcium and could account for possible stones. However, the vet also said that stress can cause UTIs in piggies and this might be the cause. She prescribed some anti-inflammatory medication to see if things improve, if not we need x-rays. The poorly one is the less dominant one, he tends to stay in the house by day and doesn’t seem to eat as much as the dominant one. When they first arrived there was some rumble strutting that settled down and recently I have heard some tooth gnashing. I now suspect that poor trifle is being bullied and not allowed to eat very much, last night and tonight I noticed that he has been ousted from the house and is sleeping in the litter tray.

The vet agreed that he is possibly being bullied and the stress of the move and bullying could have caused the blood in the urine. They are also only in a 120cm x 60cm cage (which they came with) so I have ordered the components to make a c&c cage to give them more space.

Does anyone have any advice or experience of anything similar.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Piggies&buns]

The link below should help you identify bullying. The normal advice for bullying and determining if a bond is dysfunctional is a trial separation. If the one being bullied perks up once separated, then often the bond is breaking down. The bully will always be annoyed by any separation so it isn’t the bully’s reaction you need to gauge. However, if he isn’t feeling well due to a UTI/potential stones then he may not perk up during a trial separation in any event, but you may notice his eating habits more.

With boys, as you have identified, they need a lot of space - 120x60 is not big enough. They also need two, sometimes three, of every item including houses, food bowls, water bottles, hay racks etc. The more dominant pig cannot guard everything at once therefore enabling the submissive pig to get his share of food. If you don’t already, try feeding at different ends of the cage and make sure you have two or three hay piles.

Boars: Teenage, Bullying, Fighting, Fall-outs And What Next?

 

[pig in the city]

Hi,
10 days ago we collected two 18 month old boys who could no longer be looked after by their old owner. They have always been together and are indoor piggies. When we first handled them we noticed that one felt very thin compared to the other and they had very long and over grown nails. I trimmed the nails and booked a vets appointment for a general check-up which was for tomorrow. However, when I got back from work today I noticed blood in their cage. I separated them to work out who it was coming from and called the vet.

I took them to the vet and she said that she advised an x-ray to check for bladder stones which could result in possible surgery. I have a feeling they may have been fed a lot of kale by their previous owner which is apparently high in calcium and could account for possible stones. However, the vet also said that stress can cause UTIs in piggies and this might be the cause. She prescribed some anti-inflammatory medication to see if things improve, if not we need x-rays. The poorly one is the less dominant one, he tends to stay in the house by day and doesn’t seem to eat as much as the dominant one. When they first arrived there was some rumble strutting that settled down and recently I have heard some tooth gnashing. I now suspect that poor trifle is being bullied and not allowed to eat very much, last night and tonight I noticed that he has been ousted from the house and is sleeping in the litter tray.

The vet agreed that he is possibly being bullied and the stress of the move and bullying could have caused the blood in the urine. They are also only in a 120cm x 60cm cage (which they came with) so I have ordered the components to make a c&c cage to give them more space.

Does anyone have any advice or experience of anything similar.

Thanks a lot!

I had a boar who developed cystitis with bleeding if he got stressed, eg vet trips would make him bleed.
He may be being bullied because he is poorly rather than the illness being caused by bullying. Getting a bigger cage and two of everything is a great idea.
Pain relief with something like metacam will help to settle things down

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,
10 days ago we collected two 18 month old boys who could no longer be looked after by their old owner. They have always been together and are indoor piggies. When we first handled them we noticed that one felt very thin compared to the other and they had very long and over grown nails. I trimmed the nails and booked a vets appointment for a general check-up which was for tomorrow. However, when I got back from work today I noticed blood in their cage. I separated them to work out who it was coming from and called the vet.

I took them to the vet and she said that she advised an x-ray to check for bladder stones which could result in possible surgery. I have a feeling they may have been fed a lot of kale by their previous owner which is apparently high in calcium and could account for possible stones. However, the vet also said that stress can cause UTIs in piggies and this might be the cause. She prescribed some anti-inflammatory medication to see if things improve, if not we need x-rays. The poorly one is the less dominant one, he tends to stay in the house by day and doesn’t seem to eat as much as the dominant one. When they first arrived there was some rumble strutting that settled down and recently I have heard some tooth gnashing. I now suspect that poor trifle is being bullied and not allowed to eat very much, last night and tonight I noticed that he has been ousted from the house and is sleeping in the litter tray.

The vet agreed that he is possibly being bullied and the stress of the move and bullying could have caused the blood in the urine. They are also only in a 120cm x 60cm cage (which they came with) so I have ordered the components to make a c&c cage to give them more space.

Does anyone have any advice or experience of anything similar.

Thanks a lot!

Hi and welcome!

Please be aware that boars always need to re-establish their group and therefore their group hierarchy in any new territory. Also be aware that it is much more likely that any dominance behaviour is the result of your boy not being well rather than the other way around.
Please be aware that separation of a working bond - and you are NOT reporting any of the red light behaviours for bullying - is another added stress factor rather than a help.

I would have him x-rayed as teeth gnashing can be a sign of pain. The sooner you can get to the bottom of his problem, the better. Before you or your vet diagnose bullying, any potential medical angle needs to be exluded first. I have only ever had one case of severe bullying in the nearly 70 piggies that I have/have had over the years. In most cases, there was a serious medical issue behind any changes in behaviour. The thinness points towards a longer term problem and not a stress related UTI, to be honest.
I would strongly recommend to have both teeth (especially the crucial back teeth for overgrown spurs) and bladder x-rayed.

Has your vet prescribed any painkiller or just given you an antibiotic (which one)? How piggy savvy are they?

PS: please support feed your ill boy and monitor his weight daily instead of weekly.
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide
Weight - Monitoring and Management

PS2: Can you please add your country, state/province or UK county to location in your account details (access via clicking on your username on the top bar) so we can help you better by tailoring any advice and recommendations to what is available and relevant where you are straight away. We have members and enquiries from all over the world with very different background, climate, vet access and medical brand names. Thank you!
All the best!

 

[Guinea Newbie]

Hi, thanks all for your replies. He’s on Metacam (anti-inflammatory) twice a day for 5 days. If by Monday there’s an improvement then we know it’s a UTI. Not on antibiotics.
The bullying... there’s been more rumble strutting from both this evening and then about 10 mins ago a scuffle in the cage. Not a full on fight but i’d say a notch below a fight and a notch above rumble strutting. I am scared they will do damage over night, especially with Trifle being unwell. Should I separate them over night?
I have two bottles, hay racks and bowls. At each end of the cage. I put an extra house in the cage this evening and then they had a scuffle. To be honest there isn’t really room for an extra house.

I hope the c&c cage bits arrive soon so I can give them the space they clearly need!

Thank you.

 

[Wiebke]

Hi, thanks all for your replies. He’s on Metacam (anti-inflammatory) twice a day for 5 days. If by Monday there’s an improvement then we know it’s a UTI. Not on antibiotics.
The bullying... there’s been more rumble strutting from both this evening and then about 10 mins ago a scuffle in the cage. Not a full on fight but i’d say a notch below a fight and a notch above rumble strutting. I am scared they will do damage over night, especially with Trifle being unwell. Should I separate them over night?
I have two bottles, hay racks and bowls. At each end of the cage. I put an extra house in the cage this evening and then they had a scuffle. To be honest there isn’t really room for an extra house.

I hope the c&c cage bits arrive soon so I can give them the space they clearly need!

Thank you.

Please don't separate. it is still within an acceptable range. but rather remove any hideys with only one exit, also take the bowls out outside of meals.
Piggies only need 1 tablespoon of pellets in a day and they can eat that in one go. Their teeth are ground down by the very abrasive silica in hay, which should be over 80% of the daily food intake; veg and pellets are more in the way of a daily treat and are NOT the mainstay of what a piggy should eat.
The less other food is hanging around, the more are your piggies encouraged to eat hay and the healthier they will be in the longer term.

How much metacam (dog or cat. as dog is three times stronger than cat) and how much does your piggy weigh?
General vets are often not aware that guinea pigs have a much faster metabolism and can cope with much higher dosages than cats or dogs; their kidneys deal much better with it than other species. Pain relief is vital as most major weight loss is pain related. If it is indeed just a UTI and not a stone, then it is a complication but not the cause of the issue that is causing your new boy to be in such bad state in the first place - and this problem has not been addressed.

If you see a deterioration during this time, please see your vet asap on the next day.

Again - please start support feeding NOW to help get the weight up. If your boy needs a bladder stone op, the more weight he has, the better his chances. Your care at home is as important as any medical treatment.
Emergency, Crisis and Bridging Care until a Vet Appointment (contains tips on how you can improvise on the syringe feed)
Complete Syringe Feeding Guide

Please read our advice in the boar guide re. moving boars to a new cage in order to minimise any dominance and the risk of fall-outs before you move them into a larger cage.
A Comprehensive Guide to Guinea Pig Boars

 

[Guinea Newbie]

Hi,
Thanks for getting back to me. I will leave them together. I don’t want to cause any unnecessary stress/disruption. The vet weighed them both today and Trifle (the poorly one) was 1.1 on the scales. I take it to mean, 1,100 grams, the vet said she’d like him to be 1,500 grams. Having said that when I looked up weight 1,100 seemed with in the acceptable range. He definitely feels thin though.
It’s the dog metacam, 0.2ml twice a day.
Thanks for the link about moving to a new cage, I will take a look at that before we move them.
Re the feeding - he’s been feeding on his hay and nuggets this evening. He’s not ‘off food’ and seems to be wanting to eat. It’s just that he feels very thin compared to his brother. I am going back to the vets tomorrow so will get him weighed again to double check.
Thank you again, the advice on here is very much appreciated!

 

[Wiebke]

Hi,
Thanks for getting back to me. I will leave them together. I don’t want to cause any unnecessary stress/disruption. The vet weighed them both today and Trifle (the poorly one) was 1.1 on the scales. I take it to mean, 1,100 grams, the vet said she’d like him to be 1,500 grams. Having said that when I looked up weight 1,100 seemed with in the acceptable range. He definitely feels thin though.
It’s the dog metacam, 0.2ml twice a day.
Thanks for the link about moving to a new cage, I will take a look at that before we move them.
Re the feeding - he’s been feeding on his hay and nuggets this evening. He’s not ‘off food’ and seems to be wanting to eat. It’s just that he feels very thin compared to his brother. I am going back to the vets tomorrow so will get him weighed again to double check.
Thank you again, the advice on here is very much appreciated!

Hi!

Good that your boy is on a decent dose of dog metacam, so your vet seems to know what they are doing!

Like with humans, guinea pig sizes can vary enormously - what is an ideal weight for one piggy can be overweight, or in your case underweight, for others. If you have two large boys, then 1100g would be skinny whereas for most piggies it would be considered an ideal weight - and my smallest sows at the lower end of the normal weight range would be actually fat or I'd be worrying about ovarian cysts.
The weight management guide link in my first post describes how you work out the size/weight ratio for your individual piggy ('heft'). If you want to call it that, it is basically a rough hands-on BMI check.

Take the time to read through the various guides. You will find them all very practical, informative and helpful to use as a resource as you settle into piggy ownership. your boys are lucky to have found a caring owner that gives them medical and home care that they have been lacking!

 

[Guinea Newbie]

Hi,
Thank you for all your advice, it has been useful and reassuring knowing there are people out there who can advise at such times.

Trifle has been quiet but ate some broccoli when I returned from work. He seems to be peeing less and it isn’t as blood stained as it was, although still pink tinged.
I have just spoken to the vet again as crumble had his new pet check and she suggested giving my poorly pig, Trifle, some alfalfa hay to boost him up weight wise. Is this wise given it has a higher calcium content than the meadow/Timothy hay that he is currently on? He may have bladder stones but as of yet we don’t know. He also needs more pellets and the usual veg.
The other piggie is officially over weight and is to have hay and veg only! It confirms my suspicions that Trifle hasn't been allowed to eat as much as he should.
When I have a new cage I can partition it at certain points in order to allow Trifle the different foods that he needs.
Thanks everyone